Question Ask Smoke Thread - Have Any Question? Post It Here!

[ApocaLips]

If you haven't learned the otg bomb by now, you might not want to bother. It's going to be taken out pretty soon.

I have a hard time comboing after plan 3, 2. You're farther away than a 3, D+1, 2. You also lose the mid hit in the middle of the string which can surprise people.

 

[Suirad]

Does anyone know all of Smoke's wake-up invincibility specials? I've seen the computer do smoke towards/away, teleport, ex smoke towards/away, ex teleport, ex shake, ex invisibility on wake-up and they seemed to have start-up invincibility of some kind. Do they all in fact? Are there any others?

 

[Finaeous]

Wakeup smoke towards/away, enhanced smoke towards/away, teleport punch, and enhanced teleport punch have invincible frames on startup. While wakeup shakes/enhanced shakes don't have invincible frames, the moves still act as a parry to certain other moves making them preferable to the actual invincible wakeups in certain situations.

 

[Suirad]

Wakeup smoke towards/away, enhanced smoke towards/away, teleport punch, and enhanced teleport punch have invincible frames on startup. While wakeup shakes/enhanced shakes don't have invincible frames, the moves still act as a parry to certain other moves making them preferable to the actual invincible wakeups in certain situations.

Enhanced Shake normally loses to sweep though(and d+1, d+3, d+4 etc) and when done on wake-up it can beat at least sweep(I've done it before in a match). Computer never did normal shake on wake-up either which I find suspicious.

/edit/ Maybe it's just that enhanced shake has the special property when done on wake-up that it beats sweeps? It's not invincible since it gets beat out still by d+1, d+2, d+3 and some specials still.

 

[Finaeous]

*If* I remember correctly, enhanced shake (doesn't matter if it's a wakeup or not) will parry lows such as sweep during the startup frames while smoke is going into his shake "stance." Once his hands are together and you're in the animation that can be held he's vulnerable to lows but will still parry other normals.

And whenever the computer does a wakeup attack it will do the enhanced version without having to burn meter. It's one of the annoying little ways that the computer is able to cheat.

 

[Suirad]

Yeah I can see that now, delay sweep will still beat it on wake-up. Thanks. For what its worth even during the start-up those ducking moves will win out.

 

[Finaeous]

Hmm. It's not something I've ever really tested out myself, just what I've read on these forums. I may have to mess around with it later. Too bad training mode won't let you speciify which wakeup attack you want it to use.

 

[Finaeous]

After playing around with it for a bit, I think what I posted earlier was complete BS. Really wish I could remember where I heard that now.

From what I can tell, enhanced shake loses to D1, D3, and D4 but will beat other lows. Whether it hits during startup or after doesn't seem to matter.

Edit: Something interesting: Sweep beating enhanced shake seems to be character specific. For example, Sheeva's sweep loses to enhanced shake while Sonya's sweep beats it.

 

[Zebster]

Can't test it at the moment, but can any check to see if Smoke can normal Shake any of Kenshi's specials?

Edit: Got it answered by Jago but in the Kenshi thread. No Smoke cannot shake (or even :en shake) his specials.

 

[Finaeous]

Went through the entire cast.

Jade, Kano, Stryker, Baraka, Quan Chi, Sheeva, and Smoke himself cannot beat enhanced shake with a sweep. I'm on xbox, so I can't test Kenshi yet.

Suirad, if you were playing against Smoke as one of those characters and your sweep lost to an enhanced shake, this would explain it.

 

[Suirad]

Yeah I was, I guess delayed sweep must have been hitting because the shake wasn't held or something like that. Good to know. I wish there was a record option in practice, wouldn't have to get so creative to test something so simple.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I played a Smoke player the other day. Then at one point when we both had very little life left he kept spamming D4 over and over again. When I saw that, I laughed. "Wow, what a noob. He really thinks that's going to work against me? Please. I'm just going to jump kick his ass to oblivion." So I jump kick right... but then to my surprise the D4 wins. It literally beat my jump kick flat out. Now my question is: ...WHY?!

I've noticed Smoke's D4 hits higher than most other characters but does it actually works as a reliable anti-air too? I have never seen a D4 beat my jump kick before so I was pretty annoyed by it. Even Mileena's D4 dies to jump kick. So why not Smokes?

 

[AK BeerGuyEd]

I played a Smoke player the other day. Then at one point when we both had very little life left he kept spamming D4 over and over again. When I saw that, I laughed. "Wow, what a noob. He really thinks that's going to work against me? Please. I'm just going to jump kick his ass to oblivion." So I jump kick right... but then to my surprise the D4 wins. It literally beat my jump kick flat out. Now my question is: ...WHY?!

I've noticed Smoke's D4 hits higher than most other characters but does it actually works as a reliable anti-air too? I have never seen a D4 beat my jump kick before so I was pretty annoyed by it. Even Mileena's D4 dies to jump kick. So why not Smokes?

You can anti air with Smoke's D4, but the timing is strict. I personally do it all the time, but I have never seen a jump kick that was out when the D4 hit. It can stuff JIP if timed correctly pretty reliably, but I did not think it could hit someone out of a JK. Was your JK really deep and prehaps the D4 hit before the kick came out? I can see that happening.

 

[arydious]

Crazy i didnt think it could, but i guess i can start using D4 to stop some more stuff

 

[YougotCaged1]

Hey fellow Smoke players, I just thought of a fee things and want to know if there already used or if they work. Would d4 into b2 work as like a pressure thing? Also recently a friend did the 112 string and ended it in smoke bomb which caught me when I tried to punish it. Maybe you could end 112 with smoke away or towards for mind games? And finally, can someone tell me a good wall combo with smoke?

 

[FrothyOmen]

Yes, d4 > b2 is quite good.

112 is near useless, and is usually only used whens somebody drops a d1 <_<

jip > 214 xx bomb > 32 > 32 > 32 > 214. Should do 44% or something like that, I don't remember.
jip > 3d12 > njp > 32 > 32 > 32 > d1 xx bomb > f4

 

[FrothyOmen]

Does anybody know any moves on other characters that put the enemy into the same awkward roll as Smoke's f+4? particularly normals that can be cancelled into a tag assist with smoke, i'm curious to see after the hotfix coming soon if they just change f+4 or if they fix the bug nestled within that rolling state... can you say ghetto resets

 

[FrothyOmen]

Is there a better punisher to blocking mileenas telekick xx air sai than a plain uppercut?

 

[McNasty]

d4 or d1 smoke bomb

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[FrothyOmen]

I... wow. I have no idea how I missed that. Thanks .___.'

 

[kabelfritz]

d4 or d1 smoke bomb

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but that is stupid to execute, you gotta block low or youre not gonna be able to punish quick enough (under the sais), but when youre already low its hard to cancel d4 (which is then just 4 while ducking) int db 2

 

[FrothyOmen]

In my experience you should always be blocking low against mileena, her only overhead is slow enough to block high on reaction. So d1 d1 xx bomb should work then.. I'll have to try it and learn the timing.

 

[kabelfritz]

In my experience you should always be blocking low against mileena, her only overhead is slow enough to block high on reaction. So d1 d1 xx bomb should work then.. I'll have to try it and learn the timing.

double d1 would be something different, thatd be ok, but from my experience its too short.

only punishment i know is duckblock it and when the sais come out d4. but if you wanna cancel into smokebomb you get the problem i explained above

 

[FrothyOmen]

Huh, okay then. I cant believe how little I seem to know about smoke despite him being my only main :'(

 

[SZSR]

Is there a better punisher to blocking mileenas telekick xx air sai than a plain uppercut?

I've had quite a bit of success (online) using 3 2, 4, teleport punch, it's 25% damage but it's easy to land and is a decent punish for something that's supposed to get the drop on you. Sometimes the 3 whiffs, but the 2 almost always hits.