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Video/Tutorial - Summoner Beta Quan! Buffs and Normalizations!

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
thanks, I'm really interested in whether it's workable and what the start up is on it, it will completely change the dynamic of the character
I've been spamming it like crazy to test it and my current impression is that he still has the worst armor in the game but the gap between his armor and other armor is smaller. Before it was a complete waste of bar and would never work now it has its uses and it's probably moderately worse than Predator?

Any actual armor breaking attempt still easily breaks it (i.e., a lot of characters' st 11 string), but there are fewer situations where I feel like my opponent wasn't even trying to break the armor but did it by accident.
That seems fair then. What is the frame data say?
 

LiquidDrone

Sorcerer
If trance turned purple it would be cool, but as long as it doesn't it makes no sense. This still doesn't make the meter spell useful anyways, at least that's my initial common sense impression.
Well, better having it than not i guess, cause now u can combo into meter spell
 

Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
If trance turned purple it would be cool, but as long as it doesn't it makes no sense. This still doesn't make the meter spell useful anyways, at least that's my initial common sense impression.
You have been complaining about meter drain spell for a long time. NRS has done exactly what i recommended they should do, and they completely reinvented this variation.

Sorcerer Quan is about to become a different type of top tier character. Everyone thinking the world is ending is nuts. so to summarize

Normal Trance into Meter drain into combo still works (this always worked, was just a little harder to do)
trance while in the drain portal looks like it removes half a bar
drains on block as well for specials

so for one bar i should be able to drain almost 2 bars depending on the combo. who cares if there are gaps now, they will never be able to armor. so what, you cant chip someone out for 100% guaranteed. As if that wasnt going to be nerfed. combined with the 20% less chip on normals, all thats changed is that instead of armor and chip, you will be doing armor and drains. i prefer it to be honest. I've already posted videos in the past on the type of potential this has, and it is amplified now to an absurd amount. I will be labbing him this week to see what ridiculousness he can do now.
 
thanks, I'm really interested in whether it's workable and what the start up is on it, it will completely change the dynamic of the character


That seems fair then. What is the frame data say?
The frame data for sky drop is exactly the same as it was. I was still getting stuffed on wakeup when I tried using it.
 

Colest

Mid-Tier 'Mancer Main
or is it just the third time you've refused to acknowledge that you completely misunderstood what the original guy you quoted was saying, when you went on your unbelievably arrogant rant
It's arrogant to ask people to use words correctly? You can hop off my dick any time, friend.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
You have been complaining about meter drain spell for a long time. NRS has done exactly what i recommended they should do, and they completely reinvented this variation.

Sorcerer Quan is about to become a different type of top tier character. Everyone thinking the world is ending is nuts. so to summarize

Normal Trance into Meter drain into combo still works (this always worked, was just a little harder to do)
trance while in the drain portal looks like it removes half a bar
drains on block as well for specials

so for one bar i should be able to drain almost 2 bars depending on the combo. who cares if there are gaps now, they will never be able to armor. so what, you cant chip someone out for 100% guaranteed. As if that wasnt going to be nerfed. combined with the 20% less chip on normals, all thats changed is that instead of armor and chip, you will be doing armor and drains. i prefer it to be honest. I've already posted videos in the past on the type of potential this has, and it is amplified now to an absurd amount. I will be labbing him this week to see what ridiculousness he can do now.
He sounds stronger now then he did before
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
First off, vortex in its true definiton meant a HKD mixup that lead to a HKD. That definition has since been misappropriated (as has been the case with a lot of FGC terms) to mean any mixup that loops into itself. If it doesn't loop continuously then it's not a vortex. Saying he has a meterless vortex is objectively wrong. Saying that it's a vortex at all is also wrong because you don't have infinite meter, ergo it can't loop into itself ad nausem. Unless you have the meter to kill, it's a mixup. Please use the word correctly next time.
Definitions change old man. He has a meterless vortex according to the current definition. He also has a meterless vortex by your outdated definition as well
 
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Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
He sounds stronger now then he did before
Look at it like this. Before, with 3 bars Sorcerer could do 100% damage that was inescapable. Whether you can do it on hit, on block, is irrelevant. It may as well be an infinite. The trance duration nerf is obviously a direct result of that.

Summoner may have been a superior variation due to its silliness but that doesnt mean that aspect of sorcerer wasnt broken.

Combined with reduced 20% chip on everything, you leave chip still an option with 3 bars in specific setups with MB trance , but no longer broken. You change drain portal to a substitute so the focus becomes more neutral based, where you juggle between armor and trying to keep the opponent without meter.

Defense is still bleh, but when its your turn you can take away all the meter they just built. He will be better off for it
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Look at it like this. Before, with 3 bars Sorcerer could do 100% damage that was inescapable. Whether you can do it on hit, on block, is irrelevant. It may as well be an infinite. The trance duration nerf is obviously a direct result of that.

Summoner may have been a superior variation due to its silliness but that doesnt mean that aspect of sorcerer wasnt broken.

Combined with reduced 20% chip on everything, you leave chip still an option with 3 bars in specific setups with MB trance , but no longer broken. You change drain portal to a substitute so the focus becomes more neutral based, where you juggle between armor and trying to keep the opponent without meter.

Defense is still bleh, but when its your turn you can take away all the meter they just built. He will be better off for it
I don't have a Sorceror player local and am unfamiliar with the variation. The ones I do know however are claiming the sky is fallen, he was fine before the patch, now they've buried him, etc. Would it be safe to say these people are either heavily downplaying, or just bad at the game? Or is their truth to what they are saying?
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
I don't have a Sorceror player local and am unfamiliar with the variation. The ones I do know however are claiming the sky is fallen, he was fine before the patch, now they've buried him, etc. Would it be safe to say these people are either heavily downplaying, or just bad at the game? Or is their truth to what they are saying?
They're crying to much. Quan still seems to be extremely good
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
I don't have a Sorceror player local and am unfamiliar with the variation. The ones I do know however are claiming the sky is fallen, he was fine before the patch, now they've buried him, etc. Would it be safe to say these people are either heavily downplaying, or just bad at the game? Or is their truth to what they are saying?
Zoning in summoner now is going to be incredible. Sorcerer still looks very good and with the drain spell I'm looking forward to try it out
 

Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
I don't have a Sorceror player local and am unfamiliar with the variation. The ones I do know however are claiming the sky is fallen, he was fine before the patch, now they've buried him, etc. Would it be safe to say these people are either heavily downplaying, or just bad at the game? Or is their truth to what they are saying?
Well, you take an overpowered mechanic and dust it, i cant in good conscious say hes better. Sky is not falling though

Your friends may not be bad players per se but once people are set in a specific playstyle they cant see past their own nose if its torn down and completely changed. While he may still be really really strong, he may no longer fit their style. When i lab him in the beta ill know for sure how strong this new mechanic is. In the past ive posted about mb drain spell and its potential in videos (it was always good, just nowhere near as good as chip), i suspect however with these new changes you will hear a completely different kind of complaining from opponents.
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Ran into dink in the beta last night and quan seems so much easier to fight. Damage seems really average now that quan can't summon the bat mid trance and its easier to get in on him with patience since mb run no longer jails full screen. It will take time for quan players to adjust but these were definitely hard nerfs. He is still death on knockdown though and i did see dink use quans wakeup, it was definitely faster but i stuffed it as he was coming down.

At this point, they need to just give him a reliable wakeup imo.
 

AeWhole

Noob
Hmm intresting , so no damage nerf? If thats true that means summoner can still get 51% for a bar so yeah
haha... no he can't. He never got that much off one bar. 45% tops in a real game. That's also with a bat starting the combo and a bat in the middle of trance. Check your privilege.
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
haha... no he can't. He never got that much off one bar. 45% tops in a real game. That's also with a bat starting the combo and a bat in the middle of trance. Check your privilege.
Michaelangelo landed a 1 bar 60% midscreen combo into a hkd to sackys quan at nec and illusions landed a 61% corner 1 bar combo on ua showtime (who raged) at nec. Both in summoner.
 
haha... no he can't. He never got that much off one bar. 45% tops in a real game. That's also with a bat starting the combo and a bat in the middle of trance. Check your privilege.
I was talking about the bat combos that he could do and yes he could reach 50%+ if he has his bat out. You could land them in a real match so i dont know what you're really getting at...