General/Other - Ermac [EO Beta] Ermac Beta Thread

frame data says F43 is -10 or -11 now. his damage seems about the same

Well, at least Spectral and Master of Souls are viable

Would like for him to keep his feet on the ground instead of floating but whatever...

I was using an associate to assist me in the testing. The only way he was able to punish F43 was with ex slide. D3, Reptile dash, normal slide, all failed to punish. Paulo did mention not to place too much stock in the hard numbers.

Coincidentally, though he may never see it.

@colt there is still an issue with Ermac's B1 being a mid and whiffing on crouching opponents. I hope that will be addressed in the future. On a secondary note, thank you for fixing the whiff issues on his 22 string.

RM xRagnarökx said:

I was using an associate to assist me in the testing. The only way he was able to punish F43 was with ex slide. D3, Reptile dash, normal slide, all failed to punish. Paulo did mention not to place too much stock in the hard numbers.

Coincidentally, though he may never see it.

@colt there is still an issue with Ermac's B1 being a mid and whiffing on crouching opponents. I hope that will be addressed in the future. On a secondary note, thank you for fixing the whiff issues on his 22 string.

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I hope so

Mystic didn't get a universal fireball? Paulo pplllzzz!!! This is supposed to be his default variation and its his worst.

I would forego the fireball, for his TK moves to be less punishable without having to spend meter. Lift is still shown as -54 across all variations. Push without meter is -24. Overall he is better, though there are few reasons to use it as opposed to Master of Souls or Spectral.

DarksydeDash said:

Mystic didn't get a universal fireball? Paulo pplllzzz!!! This is supposed to be his default variation and its his worst.

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Facts. Mystic will forever be useless if he doesn't get the standard version of the fireball and usable frame data on his specials.

is this all we found? cuz if yes im disappoint son.

I didn't find anything else.

Was his f34 always plus a million. f34 f34 f34 is a block infinite.

haahah still no love for mac, well i'll take safe f43 even if we already have safe f4 upblast, hmm it's good that ex push is finally made safe with armor cause it's too easy to bait on wakeup, i wish they made normal push -7 at least, i hope they fix the scaling on mystic combos too

Compared the frame data from the beta to the data on mkxframedata.com

This is for the Master of Souls variation:

Normals
B3 = +15 on hit, up from +12
4 = +11 on hit, up from +3
B4 = 28 recovery, down from 30. -10 on block, up from -16. +19 on hit, up from +17.
F4 = +3 on hit, up from -4. (Unless -4 was a typo on mkxframedata.com)
NJP = -10 on block, down from -9.
Throw = Cancels from 34 frames, up from 32.

Specials
DB2~U = Active for 5 frames, up from 1. Recovery is 31, down from 36.
DB2~U[EX] = Active for 4 frames, up from 1. Recovery is 36, down from 40. -13 on block, up from -4.
[Air] DB4[EX] = -22 on block, up from -45.
DU+Block = New command, formerly DDU.
[Hover]DB2 = Recovery is 28, down from 29. -2 on block, up from -3. +10 on hit, up from +9.


MoS Specials
No apparent changes.


Video containing the beta frame data is:

Sounds like Spectral lives alright. If @TKS is right on the changes to B3 and F4 on hit, the 50/50 into hover may no longer break your hands and be doable. This sounds like a great buff.

So does the soulball replenish faster or am i trippin? Seems to recharge as soon as you finish/drop a combo.

it took 3 seconds before if i remember correctly. how long does it take now?

B124 +2 on block?

migosan said:

haahah still no love for mac, well i'll take safe f43 even if we already have safe f4 upblast, hmm it's good that ex push is finally made safe with armor cause it's too easy to bait on wakeup, i wish they made normal push -7 at least, i hope they fix the scaling on mystic combos too

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F4 upblast is death on hit as the blast often whiffs. Plus it's easily D1 punishable by a lot of the cast, leaving you open to more pressure.

Scott The Scot said:

I hope Cassie can still punish F43
Muahahaha

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Cassie is a character you should be ashamed of using.

Doctor Stabs said:

Was his f34 always plus a million. f34 f34 f34 is a block infinite.

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listen to that maniac icy in the background

Saeglopur-- said:

Cassie is a character you should be ashamed of using.

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In the past I've mained Smoke and Martian Manghunter. Cassie ain't not nothing to be ashamed of in my position!

RM xRagnarökx said:

I would forego the fireball, for his TK moves to be less punishable without having to spend meter. Lift is still shown as -54 across all variations. Push without meter is -24. Overall he is better, though there are few reasons to use it as opposed to Master of Souls or Spectral.

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SaltShaker said:

Facts. Mystic will forever be useless if he doesn't get the standard version of the fireball and usable frame data on his specials.

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SaltShaker is correct, its irrelevant that TK is less punishable if it gets him nothing... Lets assume it is less punishable, ok cool, now you can use it more as a defensive tool, now lets imagine you get lucky and hit a TK you toss the opponent full screen, wuhuhhhhhh i tossed him full screen lets make him pay for trying to come in on me, yes! oh w8 i dont have anything to do that, well i guess ill just let him get in on my face again and get rekt because most of the cast beats my normals and strings...

Just to prove a point that Mystic needs (no he MUST) have a fireball, lets compare it to the likes of Kenshi, they are essentially the same archtype character, the only diference is that even Kenshi is much better at that archtype than mystic will ever be... because he can toss ppl fullscreen and chip them down as they try to come in...
With sub par frame data on strings and normals, sub par teleport speed and the fact he cant properly combo after it and unable to capitalise on long range game, Mystic is useless and cannot perform even against the mid tier roster of this game...

Its quite unfortunate, i really like the idea of Mystic, but without a fireball he is half a character

14K said:

SaltShaker is correct, its irrelevant that TK is less punishable if it gets him nothing... Lets assume it is less punishable, ok cool, now you can use it more as a defensive tool, now lets imagine you get lucky and hit a TK you toss the opponent full screen, wuhuhhhhhh i tossed him full screen lets make him pay for trying to come in on me, yes! oh w8 i dont have anything to do that, well i guess ill just let him get in on my face again and get rekt because most of the cast beats my normals and strings...

Just to prove a point that Mystic needs (no he MUST) have a fireball, lets compare it to the likes of Kenshi, they are essentially the same archtype character, the only diference is that even Kenshi is much better at that archtype than mystic will ever be... because he can toss ppl fullscreen and chip them down as they try to come in...
With sub par frame data on strings and normals, sub par teleport speed and the fact he cant properly combo after it and unable to capitalise on long range game, Mystic is useless and cannot perform even against the mid tier roster of this game...

Its quite unfortunate, i really like the idea of Mystic, but without a fireball he is half a character

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Can't properly combo from teleport? Son, do you know what Scorpion players would do to be able to link a spear after a meterless teleport? lol

Kenshi doesn't have the viable mixups that Ermac does in close quarters either with the exception of Kenjutsu, where his ability to "chip people down" is also relinquished.

Mystic's problem is that it's just a hands down worse version of MOS, which is already considered a potentially underwhelming variation with a mid hitting combo starting fireball, giving Mystic a generic fireball ain't gonna change any fortunes.

All Mystic needs IMO, as far as a reason to play it, is less negativity on push (somewhere between -13 to -16), and the Mystic version of EX Lift to have a hit of armor. (cause it damn sure doesn't do anything different currently despite being listed as a "Mystic exclusive move")

With that kind of utility, it wouldn't just be about using push, it's that you have it, makes people apprehensive about what's gonna happen next, and opens up to challenge with other things instead.

So as far as Mystic "needing" a fireball, yeah, something ain't adding up here....

But on the other hand, it's legitimately sad to see NRS beating around the bush with the variation, giving it a purpose would be sooo simple...

STRYKIE said:

Can't properly combo from teleport? Son, do you know what Scorpion players would do to be able to link a spear after a meterless teleport? lol

Kenshi doesn't have the viable mixups that Ermac does in close quarters either with the exception of Kenjutsu, where his ability to "chip people down" is also relinquished.

Mystic's problem is that it's just a hands down worse version of MOS, which is already considered a potentially underwhelming variation with a mid hitting combo starting fireball, giving Mystic a generic fireball ain't gonna change any fortunes.

All Mystic needs IMO, as far as a reason to play it, is less negativity on push (somewhere between -13 to -16), and the Mystic version of EX Lift to have a hit of armor. (cause it damn sure doesn't do anything different currently despite being listed as a "Mystic exclusive move")

With that kind of utility, it wouldn't just be about using push, it's that you have it, makes people apprehensive about what's gonna happen next, and opens up to challenge with other things instead.

So as far as Mystic "needing" a fireball, yeah, something ain't adding up here....

But on the other hand, it's legitimately sad to see NRS beating around the bush with the variation, giving it a purpose would be sooo simple...

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I believe Mystic push in the beta right now is -14.
Still does not really make him seem all that scary.... Still feels lacking or underwhelming.
Ex push has pushback and is -1. Also still has armor.

Ex lift does not need armor. It would be broken.

I'm with Ragnarok on this one... Ermac (in Mystic) doesn't need a fireball, his Choke just needs to be safer by a little bit, if that's the case then Mystic is at least usable. I noticed EX Force Choke still only takes 1/4th of a bar but it's -1, making it his #1 armor move so these type of situations should occur more often:
(not my video)

Spectral could use a projectile though, like a level 1 Soul Ball. He can't dodge projectiles into levitate stomp pressure, he'll just get hit by the second projectile most of the time, but I guess he's designed that way.. (edit: apparently now he can go into hover depending on where he is during the jump, great change) he's still got a launching teleport. I love the DDU input change, definitely his strongest up-close variation now. Still has a gap between any of his 1234 hits/specials during (and going into) Hover, but that's the price for unfuzzyable safe mixups.

MoS no changes is alright, didn't expect it but alright. Probably won't need it with all these top tier nerfs.

Is f34 neutral or plus? What was going on in that video?
F43 at -5~ is good, worthy of 12% damage.
Anyone check out if his 112 string is still punishable (-10)?

Ermac remains a really fair character, really happy with these changes (as long as regular Choke actually did get safer!).