Breakthrough - Kung Lao [EO Beta Closed] Kung Lao Beta Changes Discussion

Evil_Riu48 said:

i never thought i ll see the day in which players will complain about their characters only been at +7 after a combo starter on block this is proof that mkx characters are completely OP

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The +7 is not the problem , its the attribute of the hat when meter burn , every character when meter burn their special , give them something better and worh doing ,with the hat spin meter burn there is nothing significant about it that is worth doing , thats all to it ..

Goat-City said:

I just thought it should hit high to give teleport 4 a use since they're both mids. Have his other hat based moves had their hitboxes nerfed?

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Teleport 4 is a high and is plus if blocked.

Eddy Wang said:

Teleport 4 is a high and is plus if blocked.

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Oh, yeah training mode says mid but it consistently whiffed when I was crouching so I guess it is a high.

My kung lao in the beta

lordspinalkillerinstinct said:

My kung lao in the beta

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J2 still looking good.

Dankster Morgan said:

Might be too early to tell but I feel like in the current stage of the beta, I think liu, cage, jax, sub, and takeda are better than lao

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Mileena is pretty absurd now. I'm hungry to see her played in tournament post patch. If I expressed my opinion on where she could possibly be after these buffs, the Mileena community would find me, no joke.

All of those characters are possibly better than Tempest. I'd still wager that he goes 5-5 vs most of them. Jax probably beats him now.

Desperdicio said:

J2 still looking good.

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Before it was fine, but sometimes you would land it when it doesn't look like you're landing. Now it's fine, you just sometimes appear to be landing and don't. It's not too different.

Edit: By fine I mean the hitbox. Whether the move is OP or not, is up for debate.

Tweedy said:

Mileena is pretty absurd now. I'm hungry to see her played in tournament post patch. If I expressed my opinion on where she could possibly be after these buffs, the Mileena community would find me, no joke.

All of those characters are possibly better than Tempest. I'd still wager that he goes 5-5 vs most of them. Jax probably beats him now.

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Yeah mileena is really good too. I think they all still 5-5 tempest but the characters I mentioned have a better matchup chart overall probably. Like Sub and Liu for sure have more 7-3s than lao now.

Dankster Morgan said:

Yeah mileena is really good too. I think they all still 5-5 tempest but the characters I mentioned have a better matchup chart overall probably. Like Sub and Liu for sure have more 7-3s than lao now.

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I don't know if Lao had 7-3s before, besides Shotgun and High Tech Jacqui. He just had tons of 6-4s and only had a couple 4-6s that were extremely debatable.

Jax and Kitana are likely solid losing match ups for Lao now. Crystalline too if he receives no nerfs, which is unlikely. I'm interested to explore the Mileena and Kotal match ups post patch. Besides that he'll likely go 5-5 vs the other good characters, if he doesn't beat them.

Just my opinions of course, some of it is speculation. I have grinded some of these match ups on the beta vs good players. KHTC Basher, who is a nasty, nasty Alist Cage, has played me a bunch. We both feel that the match up is still 5-5.

Tweedy said:

I don't know if Lao had 7-3s before, besides Shotgun and High Tech Jacqui. He just had tons of 6-4s and only had a couple 4-6s that were extremely debatable.

Jax and Kitana are likely solid losing match ups for Lao now. Crystalline too if he receives no nerfs, which is unlikely. I'm interested to explore the Mileena and Kotal match ups post patch. Besides that he'll likely go 5-5 vs the other good characters, if he doesn't beat them.

Just my opinions of course, some of it is speculation. I have grinded some of these match ups on the beta vs good players. KHTC Basher, who is a nasty, nasty Alist Cage, has played me a bunch. We both feel that the match up is still 5-5.

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Jacqui is probably the only one. I always thought crystal was Laos worst matchup before the beta build.

Dankster Morgan said:

Jacqui is probably the only one. I always thought crystal was Laos worst matchup before the beta build.

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Yeah, without the projectiles in full auto, she really can't deal with the orbiting hat in the neutral.

Eddy Wang said:

Tele3 is -6 on block, no cancel advantage, very slow to react to the uber fast projectiles, hits mid, doesn't combo on its way up, really bad tracking,and you still want it nerfed.

That is just how bad some people that loses to Lao actually are.

Also you need to consider that outside from tele 2 which in many cases misses the target because he emerges way further from the opponent to a range where his disjointed hitbox will miss, tele 3 is only good on tempest, because he can use it with hat spin and make it a bit difficult to stuff out, but still can be blown with armor because tele 3 has no block advantage, neither blockstun.


Also the more they nerf the hitbox of the hat due j2 cry, his tele2, b2, b4 and all hat based moves are also becoming trash across the 3 variations, and those are not being adjusted to compensate the nerfs tempest got.

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Its already enough tp 2 whiffs on crouching female characters.

Also idk if this was written on this thread somewhere but did you guys know if that for example if you guys did b321 after ex orbit hat and they got hit you cant orbit hat? Im not 1003ii3% sure but i remember that it happened to me today , + tp 2 still whiffs on crouching females.

What is Scorpions (Ninjitsu) F2 frame data now in the beta? because I could have sworn I got punished by it after doing Lao's MB orb hat on block after the 112124 string. The guy did F2 into a MB slide.

Pygmy_Potato said:

Didn't you play Sonya in MK9?

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yea i did and i always said that ex carlwheel should have been -18 on block

Big Pampering said:

The whole problem is that you look at ex hat spin as a launcher and not as a tool to get frame advantage. Nobody throws it out raw to fish for combos. Youre misleading yourself by looking at it that way.

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i know the primary use for it is to get advantage but + 7 is more than enough no character should be at +12 just because they burn a bar of meter after 6 normals in a block string that builds him a lot of meter. you have to make characters good but at the sametime they should be fair. +12 is too much frame advantage because he builds too much meter and makes too much cheap damage from 112124

biggabarr said:

The +7 is not the problem , its the attribute of the hat when meter burn , every character when meter burn their special , give them something better and worh doing ,with the hat spin meter burn there is nothing significant about it that is worth doing , thats all to it ..

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kano 's ex knive are if i don't mistake +7 or +6 on block and they are not useless in block strings and kung lao has better normals than kano i will not say hat spin is useless is just not braindead pressure now



you all need to see the bigger picture here nerf and buffed are not about your character it is about the game and you guys can not denie kung lao was too strong for some characters and the reason was his ex hat spin. i use cassie cage and she loosing amor on ex flip kick i find it to be a step in the right direction to a fair and balance game.

Tweedy said:

Mileena is pretty absurd now. I'm hungry to see her played in tournament post patch. If I expressed my opinion on where she could possibly be after these buffs, the Mileena community would find me, no joke.

All of those characters are possibly better than Tempest. I'd still wager that he goes 5-5 vs most of them. Jax probably beats him now.

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She really isn't. If we're talking Piercing Mileena, which is most likely the case, she has been the very same as she's been since the 8-31 patch. I'll admit the universal buffs she received will definitely give her a boost in tournament, but in my opinion her success will rely more on the top tiers getting nerfed to become more manageable. If the rest of the top tier get the treatment, then she will definitely be higher up there.

For the record, she's been a solid character, a fair character in an unfair game. Now that characters like Lao and Tanya won't be running the show as much, it will make room for Mileena and others to step into the limelight.

Damaja325 said:

She really isn't. If we're talking Piercing Mileena, which is most likely the case, she has been the very same as she's been since the 8-31 patch. I'll admit the universal buffs she received will definitely give her a boost in tournament, but in my opinion her success will rely more on the top tiers getting nerfed to become more manageable. If the rest of the top tier get the treatment, then she will definitely be higher up there.

For the record, she's been a solid character, a fair character in an unfair game. Now that characters like Lao and Tanya won't be running the show as much, it will make room for Mileena and others to step into the limelight.

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Yeah, I don't know. Better air sai recovery, buffing her D3 which low profiles so much, and giving her a 6 frame button, seems pretty huge.

I don't know if I would call Mileena fair. The Mileena community has benefited from the early impressions of the character. The A+ tier placement from the EU was definitely more accurate than the B tier placements from several people. Assuming every character should be A or A+ tier, these buffs were perhaps not needed.

Desperdicio said:

The Reptile downplay is real.

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I didn't even downplay him lol.

Evil_Riu48 said:

yea i did and i always said that ex carlwheel should have been -18 on block



i know the primary use for it is to get advantage but + 7 is more than enough no character should be at +12 just because they burn a bar of meter after 6 normals in a block string that builds him a lot of meter. you have to make characters good but at the sametime they should be fair. +12 is too much frame advantage because he builds too much meter and makes too much cheap damage from 112124



kano 's ex knive are if i don't mistake +7 or +6 on block and they are not useless in block strings and kung lao has better normals than kano i will not say hat spin is useless is just not braindead pressure now



you all need to see the bigger picture here nerf and buffed are not about your character it is about the game and you guys can not denie kung lao was too strong for some characters and the reason was his ex hat spin. i use cassie cage and she loosing amor on ex flip kick i find it to be a step in the right direction to a fair and balance game.

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+7 for KL means he has to 100% bait armour, while not being able to follow up with b321 or 112124 against characters with 6/7f pokes (wich seems to be a standard for every character in the beta). it's a huge change, and basically means that his rushdown is gonna be weak, given that he doesnt open you up with 50/50s but with throws.

+12 is perfect imo, cause you have a guaranteed d4 wich added the a mindgame for the opponent to armour or not to armour. and you have enough advantage to make ppl respect your b3 option and not poke, everything he did had an answer, it was basically a read for both KL and the opponent.

now, i think his other nerfs are fine, his j2 phantom hitbox needed to go, ex spin sucks you on block sounds stupid but it's no big deal, dmg nerf, ok fine. But ex hat at +7 hurts him bad to the point he wont keep up against some dirts in this game (if they actually remain the same in the beta).

and nope, he has no better normals than Kano i'm sorry 9f b1, 8f low profile d4, f4, plus on block b31 and 0 on block OH string in Cuttrhoat. KL has a 8f s1, an 11f f2, a 9f d4 wich doesnt low profile mids like kano, 18f b2 OH and a 15f b3. all good, but not as good as Kano.

oh and kano ex knives are +9

to be clear...anyone with a bar can stop his pressure attempt...if the reversal leads to a full combo, it can turn the tables on lao and punish him for using ex hat....his only way to start real presure is limited....but takeda can chip u out and build a 4th bar with 3bars off f12 +4 ex kunai in the corner free

Its so funny seeing laos do 11212 and then ex hat to me and then they just sit there and block, backdash or try to run up grab. I fought 4 in the beta who tried these things. Or try to jump in constantly and after i aa them for the fourth time, seeing them try to zone with the hat or tele in on me lol. These nerfs will seperate the good laos from the flowchart ones imo. May not agree with them, but a lot of lao users ive run into on the beta have no idea what to do now.

SylverRye said:

Its so funny seeing laos do 11212 and then ex hat to me and then they just sit there and block, backdash or try to run up grab. I fought 4 in the beta who tried these things. Or try to jump in constantly and after i aa them for the fourth time, seeing them try to zone with the hat or tele in on me lol. These nerfs will seperate the good laos from the flowchart ones imo. May not agree with them, but a lot of lao users ive run into on the beta have no idea what to do now.

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We should try to match bro...ive had trouble in mus where previously i was wildy successful in...most notably @Red Raptor takeda

SylverRye said:

Its so funny seeing laos do 11212 and then ex hat to me and then they just sit there and block, backdash or try to run up grab. I fought 4 in the beta who tried these things. Or try to jump in constantly and after i aa them for the fourth time, seeing them try to zone with the hat or tele in on me lol. These nerfs will seperate the good laos from the flowchart ones imo. May not agree with them, but a lot of lao users ive run into on the beta have no idea what to do now.

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well, to be fair, now that ex hat is +7 it's legit to block or bdash after it if you're baiting armor or something else. Jumping laos and teleporting laos are always been there, no matter the nerfs.

Kung Lao is basicly Jason tier now, yes you can feel as proud as Jason mains when you win now. . . because your opponent didn't know the mu

TheGoldenJew said:

We should try to match bro...ive had trouble in mus where previously i was wildy successful in...most notably @Red Raptor takeda

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Of course bro, let me know when you're on and we can run some so u can get used to the changes (if they permanently stay)