General/Other - Reptile KP2 Reptile Changes?

Reptile is amazing.

123 needs to be a hard knockdown.

dribirut said:

I know im going to get a lot of heat for This but the more the game has developed, the worse reptile seems to me. If you asked me 3 months ago i would have said rwptile is probably top ten. As of now i dont have him even in the top 15..

I feel like he has finally been figured out and i am very anxious to see what changes will be made

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on why you think this?

I actually feel like he has no matchups worse than 4-6 and whenever I lose I got outplayed.

With all the top tiers getting nerfed, I could actually see him being top 5 (assuming he doesn't get any nerfs).

The one thing that I will say is kind of a gimmick is b1d4. That starts getting fuzzy guarded pretty hard after a while. Throw nerfs probably hurt him a little bit too, since his stagger pressure is pretty good.

Reptile may not have any horribly bad matchups, but his good matchups aren't numerous either, and he generally doesn't really beat up characters. So far, his harder matchups haven't taken the right hits IMO, and his good ones getting some buffs, he's not at the best spot were he to remain the same. But I don't think he's an exceptionally great character considering what this game contains. He's comparatively fairly middle-of-the-road, and I think he needs something if he wants to maintain that.

Paul the Octopus said:

With all the top tiers getting nerfed, I could actually see him being top 5 (assuming he doesn't get any nerfs).

Click to expand...

If they give him his hotfixes, (i call them hotfixes, like the puddle) then its a chance he can but dont forget...

We got 4 new chars coming in

THTB said:

Reptile may not have any horribly bad matchups, but his good matchups aren't numerous either, and he generally doesn't really beat up characters. So far, his harder matchups haven't taken the right hits IMO, and his good ones getting some buffs, he's not at the best spot were he to remain the same. But I don't think he's an exceptionally great character considering what this game contains. He's comparatively fairly middle-of-the-road, and I think he needs something if he wants to maintain that.

Click to expand...

What do you think are his hard matchups?

I see grandmaster mentioned a lot but I personally don't think it's worse than 4-6. Yes clone is a nuisance and getting knocked down sucks, but that's the case for many characters. This might be controversial but I think the neutral game is even at worst. Sub can never throw a clone or ice ball, as it's very easily ex pounced on reaction for a full combo. Also, Sub's armor is not good enough to deter ex invisibility pressure.

He has a lot of 5-5 and i honestly cant think of one mu where he foesure wins.. But i can think of a few where without a doubt he loses

I confused people being unfamiliar with the mu to reptile actually winning the mu

dribirut said:

He has a lot of 5-5 and i honestly cant think of one mu where he foesure wins.. But i can think of a few where without a doubt he loses

Click to expand...

I still think Quan is in his favor (definitely will be if the rumors stick), and I think Jacqui loses to him. But you're right, it's easier to think of his harder matchups.

Reptile beats Goro.

Grandmaster Kobu tanya and lui kang 3-7
In my book.
I dont mind a character without many losing/winning matchups but I think if he doesn't get touched up with the rest he will fall behind and this may be the last update incoming

dribirut said:

He has a lot of 5-5 and i honestly cant think of one mu where he foesure wins.. But i can think of a few where without a doubt he loses

Click to expand...

That's a fair point. Although I don't think he has any horrible matchups, I don't think he has many dominant ones either.

I think he beats Tempest after the nerfs though. Ex invis after knockdown is really good vs Tempest.

dribirut said:

I confused people being unfamiliar with the mu to reptile actually winning the mu

Click to expand...

What are things that used to work but don't anymore?

I am guessing that b1d4 gets blocked a lot more, ex claw/dash get punished, reptile zoning is mediocre, people armor the invisibility cancels, and people tech roll ex slide, making ex slide a pretty ineffective way to get through zoning (spend a bar for 8% and no follow ups). Anything else? Even with the things I mentioned, I personally still think he's really good, and will move up the tier list substantially if he doesn't get nerfed and the other top tiers' nerfs stick.

Paul the Octopus said:

What are things that used to work but don't anymore?

I am guessing that b1d4 gets blocked a lot more, ex claw/dash get punished, reptile zoning is mediocre, people armor the invisibility cancels, and people tech roll ex slide, making ex slide a pretty ineffective way to get through zoning (spend a bar for 8% and no follow ups). Anything else? Even with the things I mentioned, I personally still think he's really good, and will move up the tier list substantially if he doesn't get nerfed and the other top tiers' nerfs stick.

Click to expand...

F41 staggers is not viable
B34 has no guaranteed followup and opponents know that
You can literally jump Around against him for free and has absolutely no answer to Jump back normals
Forceballs are complétely úselas against any good player that is familir with the mu

Nimble cancells and setups are all complete gimmicks and i would say i have the most exp with that variation out of anyone in the world

dribirut said:

F41 staggers is not viable
B34 has no guaranteed followup and opponents know that
You can literally jump Around against him for free and has absolutely no answer to Jump back normals
Forceballs are complétely úselas against any good player that is familir with the mu

Nimble cancells and setups are all complete gimmicks and i would say i have the most exp with that variation out of anyone in the world

Click to expand...

Hm yeah good points. I agree f41 staggers aren't that great. One thing that makes it a little more viable is if you throw in F41 claw (not a real block string I realize). The fact that the claw comes out so slow makes it look like you are going for a throw or another F412. But yeah I agree not that great.

I think his anti airs are good, but agree that he doesn't have a great answer to jump back - but neither do most other characters, right? I think I'd just try to walk them into the corner or if I'm feeling ballsier use it as an opportunity to put a forceball/ex forceball on screen as a read.

I agree you can't just throw out forceballs in neutral but I think there are legitimate setups for it...

I never really play nimble so I have no clue on that.

i really hope you guys arent serious about some of these buffs.

The only changes i would make are these:

Lower duration of invis from 10 seconds to 8.

Give noxious poison stacks on his projectiles similar to dvorahs. I think this would make noxious and his zoning very strong.

The character has great meterless and metered damage, great anti airs, great gap closer, zoning, anti zoning, virtually safe 50/50, time slow, invisibility, and tons of god damned swag. Most important of all he has the highest level of freedom in terms of projectile placement and maneuverability. Hes amazing without being broken, there are so many setups that i have seen absolutely no one use, so for me to hear that this character needs this much help is a surprise.

dribirut said:

F41 staggers is not viable
B34 has no guaranteed followup and opponents know that
You can literally jump Around against him for free and has absolutely no answer to Jump back normals
Forceballs are complétely úselas against any good player that is familir with the mu

Nimble cancells and setups are all complete gimmicks and i would say i have the most exp with that variation out of anyone in the world

Click to expand...

Jump backs can be armor flipped or spat on man. He has an answer for almost every situation. Forceballs can be used in setups no matter how much your opponent knows the matchup. All well thought out of course, the more your opponent knows about the matchup the more options they know they have to respect. Thats when you can freestyle a bit more. Reptile is the ultimate anti set play.

Also whats so gimmicky about activating meterless nimble on an opponent? If you make the proper read you can get it out. I get it out on playerd like reo, dragon, and jupiter who all have insane amount of knowledge in the matchup.

G4S J360 said:

i really hope you guys arent serious about spme of these buffs.

The only changes i would make are these:

Lower duration of invis from 10 seconds to 8.

Give noxious poison stacks on his projectiles similar to dvorahs. I think this would make noxious and his zoning very strong.

The character has great meterless and metered damage, great anti airs, great gap closers, zoning, anti zoning, virtually safe 50/50, time slow, invisibility, and tons of god damned swag. Most important of all he has the highest level of freedom in terms of projectile placement and maneuverability. Hes amazing without being broken, there are so many setups that i have seen absolutely no one use, so for me to hear that this character needs this much help is a surprise to me.

Click to expand...

I'm in the camp that think reptile is very good but I think it's an exaggeration to say his zoning is "good". Any character with an anti-zoning move (teleport, slide, scoop, superman, whatever) can very easily punish all of his stuff (especially forceballs) on reaction. Only a handful of matchups where Reptile will do any real zoning imo.

Ex pounce can catch jump backs but unless it's a character with a really floaty jump it's gotta be on a read - I think the timing is too tight to react to that in neutral when you're worrying about all the other things your opponent can do, unless you're specifically looking for the jump back.

By the way, I think cutthroat Kano beats reptile (probably 6-4). Reasons:
- Reptile's d3 does not reach after blocking Kano's b121 (neutral on block), and the rest of Reptile's moves are all too slow to compete with Kano's d4... effectively, Kano has a slightly plus on block unreactable overhead that leads to good damage
- In footsie range Kano is at least even with Reptile if not at an advantage
- Kano out damages reptile
- Cannot ex invis to absorb Kano's wake up because upball hits twice
- Kano's armor works pretty well against block strings into ex invis
- Cannot ex pounce knives on reaction very easily (doable but timing is not easy) and Kano's projectiles are faster so Kano wins slightly at full screen

Overall, easier for Kano to land a hit at most places on the screen, and when he does it hurts more.

Paul the Octopus said:

I'm in the camp that think reptile is very good but I think it's an exaggeration to say his zoning is "good". Any character with an anti-zoning move (teleport, slide, scoop, superman, whatever) can very easily punish all of his stuff (especially forceballs) on reaction. Only a handful of matchups where Reptile will do any real zoning imo.

Ex pounce can catch jump backs but unless it's a character with a really floaty jump it's gotta be on a read - I think the timing is too tight to react to that in neutral when you're worrying about all the other things your opponent can do, unless you're specifically looking for the jump back.

By the way, I think cutthroat Kano beats reptile (probably 6-4). Reasons:
- Reptile's d3 does not reach after blocking Kano's b121 (neutral on block), and the rest of Reptile's moves are all too slow to compete with Kano's d4... effectively, Kano has a slightly plus on block unreactable overhead that leads to good damage
- In footsie range Kano is at least even with Reptile if not at an advantage
- Kano out damages reptile
- Cannot ex invis to absorb Kano's wake up because upball hits twice
- Kano's armor works pretty well against block strings into ex invis
- Cannot ex pounce knives on reaction very easily (doable but timing is not easy) and Kano's projectiles are faster so Kano wins slightly at full screen

Overall, easier for Kano to land a hit at most places on the screen, and when he does it hurts more.

Click to expand...

Teleporters can punish his projectiles no doubt, but those arent the characters he needs to zone. Characters like ermac, scorpion, kung lao are the ones he just needs to scrap with. He can zone pretty well against most of the cast.

As far as cut throat kano goes its an even matchup in my opinion.

Reptile does not need to try to blow up wake up ball, it can be easily baited and blown up. Force ball setups can break the move as well.

I agree that kano does out damage reptile unless he is up against nimble which is even in overall damage potential. Reptiles get most damage off of restand setups. This is one of the matchups where instead of using ex invis to combat kanos wakeups i would just sacrifice 4% and go for a throw restand into a 50/50, negating his oppourtunity to armor reliably.

I agree that ex pounce is not an option. For zoning id much rather have him trade with my 8% projectile.

Kanos d4 is a huge liability against reptile in footsies. F21 crushes d4 into full combos. I play against kano a ton and i do have issues mauling him, i have to dplay kanos game and out footsie him in either cybernetic or cutthroat. Noxious is the variation of choice in this matchup, anything i can do to help kano drain his life faster when activating his power up. Controlling kanos life bar is important as most of his big damage comes from his pumped up combos.

Overall if there was an advantage i would give it to kano although very slight. This is still a 5-5 match to me, these types of matchups are easy for no one.

G4S J360 said:

i really hope you guys arent serious about spme of these buffs.

The only changes i would make are these:

Lower duration of invis from 10 seconds to 8.

Give noxious poison stacks on his projectiles similar to dvorahs. I think this would make noxious and his zoning very strong.

The character has great meterless and metered damage, great anti airs, great gap closers, zoning, anti zoning, virtually safe 50/50, time slow, invisibility, and tons of god damned swag. Most important of all he has the highest level of freedom in terms of projectile placement and maneuverability. Hes amazing without being broken, there are so many setups that i have seen absolutely no one use, so for me to hear that this character needs this much help is a surprise to me.

Click to expand...

I would LOVE if Reptile's acid attacks added poison stacks:

Forceball
Slimeball
Acid Spit
Acid Puddle
F2 xx Throw
F2,1 xx Throw

Although, I would just settle for the default Gas doing .33% and Poison Gas doing .66%.

Occasionally I hear someone suggest that Noxious enhanced gas shouldn't go away on hit, now I hardly hear it at all anymore. That seems like a pretty decent buff to me. Is there something I'm missing? Is it reasonable, or would it really be that OP?

Robbie Rage said:

Occasionally I hear someone suggest that Noxious enhanced gas shouldn't go away on hit, now I hardly hear it at all anymore. That seems like a pretty decent buff to me. Is there something I'm missing? Is it reasonable, or would it really be that OP?

Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable to me. Tbh, I don't really see the use of cancelling into gas as it is. In the mid screen scenario, you might as well go for a slimeball setup, and in the corner, you may as well just end your combo with a slide to get just about the same damage you would with his gas anyway.

G4S J360 said:

Jump backs can be armor flipped or spat on man. He has an answer for almost every situation. Forceballs can be used in setups no matter how much your opponent knows the matchup. All well thought out of course, the more your opponent knows about the matchup the more options they know they have to respect. Thats when you can freestyle a bit more. Reptile is the ultimate anti set play.

Also whats so gimmicky about activating meterless nimble on an opponent? If you make the proper read you can get it out. I get it out on playerd like reo, dragon, and jupiter who all have insane amount of knowledge in the matchup.

Click to expand...

Im sorry but i am 100% sure those players yiu just mentioned have very little mu knowledge against nimble. I myself just played dragón recently and beat him 13 games straight and no not because im so much vetter than him, he has no mu knowledge. There is noo way yiu can possibly get meterless nimble out against almost all mu if the opponent is familiar with the mu. Also played jupiter like a month ago and he also had no knowledge in the mu

Also spit and ex flip imo are extemely bad options against Jump backs compared to the options most of the cast hast against them. Pretty much it comes down to his air normals Being horrendous and aaaaaaalways get beat out in air to air clashes.

I know im Being a debbie downer but there is a world of difference between now and 3 months ago

I honestly can not think of a single mu where i am 100% sure reptile wins

dribirut said:

Im sorry but i am 100% sure those players yiu just mentioned have very little mu knowledge against nimble. I myself just played dragón recently and beat him 13 games straight and no not because im so much vetter than him, he has no mu knowledge. There is noo way yiu can possibly get meterless nimble out against almost all mu if the opponent is familiar with the mu. Also played jupiter like a month ago and he also had no knowledge in the mu

Also spit and ex flip imo are extemely bad options against Jump backs compared to the options most of the cast hast against them. Pretty much it comes down to his air normals Being horrendous and aaaaaaalways get beat out in air to air clashes.

I know im Being a debbie downer but there is a world of difference between now and 3 months ago

Click to expand...

Did you play them online or offline?

Also how long ago? They've been playing about a week and a half of non stop Reptile offline and it wasnt even against me. I had to do advanced mixups on them in order to condition them at first, they blocked everything in the beginning.

I cant think of many characters that have better options against jump back other than kung lao. Who has a traveling armored launcher or a fast 8% projectile?

Getting nimble out on people isn't impossible like you make it seem right now. You are a good player so who beat you so bad that you're downplaying reptile so much right now? And once again is this all online or offline?

Is it one matchup that is troubling you? Is it every person you play?

Serious questions.

OFIDYAN said:

Yeah man the stopping forceball costing stamina, not sure if it would be too OP, but I wish I could test that and see after a few matches. The Noxious Buffs I think are great!!!

Click to expand...

This is why you can reach the opponent with bf2 without running which is wrong,i believe that ok nd of moves shoud be punnised on whiff.