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Breakthrough - Raiden Lawd raiden beta changes

KHAOTIC_UNCLE-_-CREEPY

The CreepFather
How would mid hitting trap be a nerf?
It being mid eliminates mind games around it. They'd just block it and I'm supposedly at plus frames, how much? Idk since I'm pretty sure they're not plus 28 like the frame data states. Them being highs makes the opponent respect them, they either stop moving completely, mash pokes or just duck which all play in Raiden's favor imo in this exact situation. Them neutral ducking or mashing pokes is where f4 is so good since it low crushes, safe if blocked and pops up for a combo(35% meterless) on hit while orb traps are active. The second hit of f14 also pops up while traps are active. If they stop moving more orbs get put on the screen which already stopped runs and last longer now with real seconds in game. The clock will be against them which is why I will be having a great time letting the timer run out for some victories :D
 
Did anybody check Master of storms?
It is said one ball last twice as before. Before it lasted 10 game seconds, so now it should be 20sec according to this report

How about (EX) DB3 on block? Does it still land behind the opponent at huge disadvantage?
Well, I don't think NRS might have changed it since this move require a really great footsy to hit twice on guard (there is a special strict distance where you can afford this trick).
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
It being mid eliminates mind games around it. They'd just block it and I'm supposedly at plus frames, how much? Idk since I'm pretty sure they're not plus 28 like the frame data states. Them being highs makes the opponent respect them, they either stop moving completely, mash pokes or just duck which all play in Raiden's favor imo in this exact situation. Them neutral ducking or mashing pokes is where f4 is so good since it low crushes, safe if blocked and pops up for a combo(35% meterless) on hit while orb traps are active. The second hit of f14 also pops up while traps are active. If they stop moving more orbs get put on the screen which already stopped runs and last longer now with real seconds in game. The clock will be against them which is why I will be having a great time letting the timer run out for some victories :D
How do you safely get an orb out on block? I figured on hit you'd just go with a mixup since the trap would blow up wakeups and if they delayed then that's just free pressure. Right now the only mindgame I have is my opponent not knowing the MU. EDIT: I'd take them blocking and me getting some pressure/mixup instead of wondering if they'll hit a button. That's if doing an orb cancel wasn't a free a punish. Oh and F4 doesn't hop over everything on startup.

EDIT: Just thought about it and if you reply, should probably be done in a PM.

Did anybody check Master of storms?
Besides the general stuff an Orb stays out longer so now you can actually play around with it. That's actually pretty useful.
 
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DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Sooo raiden received a few useless buffs while all of his major issues remained the same

brilliant just, Brilliant.
Then you have been looking at the wrong buffs. B1 and F2 having become better mids is huge, the new netcode is basically a Displacer buff, the supposed lessened recovery on teleport is awesome and there are a couple other good buffs as well. I'm perfectly happy with just the B1 and F2 change.
 
Okay so I convinced someone to play Jax to let me test this, and b34 MB df2 does not seem to be messed with what so ever. I was at least what I thought was as close as I can be to Jax and hit him with it 1/19 times.

Sorry I think it was over looked man
this was one of the main issues i dropped raiden because that string was most important for me and its broken. i dont think it will ever be fixed
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Then you have been looking at the wrong buffs. B1 and F2 having become better mids is huge, the new netcode is basically a Displacer buff, the supposed lessened recovery on teleport is awesome and there are a couple other good buffs as well. I'm perfectly happy with just the B1 and F2 change.
No improved footsies
B2 remains negative a billion
db3 still a lol-tier move out side of combo
Unnecessary reduced chip damage in thunder god remains unchanged
Orbs lasting twice as much doesn't change how unviable this variation still is
Online viability =/= buffs. This isn't an MMO and it means nothing to offline players.

F12B2 having no gap is a step on the right track but not nearly enough
Your happiness with the alleged B1 and F2 hit boxes bug fixes is just stockholm syndrome, we've all been hungry for Raiden changes and we're glad we just received something. Doesn't change the fact that this thread title should be changed to "Raiden's no improvement beta changes"
 

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
No improved footsies
B2 remains negative a billion
db3 still a lol-tier move out side of combo
Unnecessary reduced chip damage in thunder god remains unchanged
Orbs lasting twice as much doesn't change how unviable this variation still is
Online viability =/= buffs. This isn't an MMO and it means nothing to offline players.

F12B2 having no gap is a step on the right track but not nearly enough
Your happiness with the alleged B1 and F2 hit boxes bug fixes is just stockholm syndrome, we've all been hungry for Raiden changes and we're glad we just received something. Doesn't change the fact that this thread title should be changed to "Raiden's no improvement beta changes"
Footsies have been improved due to better F2. Should make for a better F22+4 in Displacer and MoS.
B2 is negative a million as it should be. It leads to incredibly good damage in the corner. There's no need to make it less unsafe really.
DB3 I'll give you. Even when buffed I don't see how the move could become useful outside a very select few situations.
Lightning strings still build an arse ton of meter, it's not about dealing chip.
MoS still isn't great but longer lasting orbs is a bigger deal than you might think. It stops opponents from running in for instance.
I only play online so the new netcode is a universal buff to me
I don't know about you but most if not all Raiden players have wanted a good B1 and F2. Bad mids were Raiden's biggest issue, now it no longer is. Calling it Stockholm syndrome is dumb, everyone wanted it.
 
DB3 is to be used for anti jump out
Trying to use it for anti poke & anti jump in is like going for 50/50 since if you aren't careful enough it's full combo punish

Lightning string (except f12b2 and b32, because both of those strings give half of a meter and don't have a gap before cancel) can be used for anti air (jump in). To be timed correctly. You can whiff those moves at full range because it is safe in this situation (not if you whiff on a jump in or cross up), except against projectiles.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Footsies have been improved due to better F2. Should make for a better F22+4 in Displacer and MoS.
B2 is negative a million as it should be. It leads to incredibly good damage in the corner. There's no need to make it less unsafe really.
DB3 I'll give you. Even when buffed I don't see how the move could become useful outside a very select few situations.
Lightning strings still build an arse ton of meter, it's not about dealing chip.
MoS still isn't great but longer lasting orbs is a bigger deal than you might think. It stops opponents from running in for instance.
I only play online so the new netcode is a universal buff to me
So Raiden is perfectly fine to you, ok. Gotchya.

I don't know about you but most if not all Raiden players have wanted a good B1 and F2. Bad mids were Raiden's biggest issue, now it no longer is. Calling it Stockholm syndrome is dumb, everyone wanted it.
As i said, B1 and F2 fixed hit boxes is a bug fix, Not a buff. surely you know the difference. Getting happy or excited about a bug fix is nothing short of a Stockholm syndrome, You are happy that your abuser gave you something that is rightfully yours from the beginning.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Footsies have been improved due to better F2. Should make for a better F22+4 in Displacer and MoS.
B2 is negative a million as it should be. It leads to incredibly good damage in the corner. There's no need to make it less unsafe really.
DB3 I'll give you. Even when buffed I don't see how the move could become useful outside a very select few situations.
Lightning strings still build an arse ton of meter, it's not about dealing chip.
MoS still isn't great but longer lasting orbs is a bigger deal than you might think. It stops opponents from running in for instance.
I only play online so the new netcode is a universal buff to me
I don't know about you but most if not all Raiden players have wanted a good B1 and F2. Bad mids were Raiden's biggest issue, now it no longer is. Calling it Stockholm syndrome is dumb, everyone wanted it.
People said F2 and B1 have better hitboxes but is that only against like Cassie crouch blocking or can we beat out a D4? I'd have to try out B1 for myself in match situations to see how reliable it is.

Orbs lasting twice as long means nothing if they still take forever to come out, he has no reliable way to get it on block, and has to drop damage to set them up, for a chance at damage.

No improved footsies
B2 remains negative a billion
db3 still a lol-tier move out side of combo
Unnecessary reduced chip damage in thunder god remains unchanged
Orbs lasting twice as much doesn't change how unviable this variation still is
Online viability =/= buffs. This isn't an MMO and it means nothing to offline players.

F12B2 having no gap is a step on the right track but not nearly enough
Your happiness with the alleged B1 and F2 hit boxes bug fixes is just stockholm syndrome, we've all been hungry for Raiden changes and we're glad we just received something. Doesn't change the fact that this thread title should be changed to "Raiden's no improvement beta changes"
B2 is fine. Even if NRS made it less negative they'd keep it extra punishable.
DB3 is odd because making it better wouldn't give Raiden some new tool he needs. He can anti-air, he has good armor. It sucks that there is a move without a purpose but Devs ain't perfect and this one doesn't really matter IMO.
TG could probably do with more chip, IDK, I don't play that variation.
True.
True.

I'd say wait until you get to try his improved mids. That was base Raiden's biggest problem and maybe now we can do stuff in neutral so we can actually get our game plan rolling.

It sucks that B34 doesn't hit consistently still.
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
B2 is fine. Even if NRS made it less negative they'd keep it extra punishable.
DB3 is odd because making it better wouldn't give Raiden some new tool he needs. He can anti-air, he has good armor. It sucks that there is a move without a purpose but Devs ain't perfect and this one doesn't really matter IMO.
TG could probably do with more chip, IDK, I don't play that variation.
True.
True.

I'd say wait until you get to try his improved mids. That was base Raiden's biggest problem and maybe now we can do stuff in neutral so we can actually get our game plan rolling.

It sucks that B34 doesn't hit consistently still.
So many things can be done to DB3 that will compensate for all of what Raiden lacks. they could reduce it's recovery frames so raiden can njp before he lands, leading to a full combo on hit or safe on block. Increase it's hitbox so it becomes his best AA option. Make the ex connect both hits on block so he wont be full combo punished when he lands.

They did it right with kitana's raising fans, very few players can low profile that ex move up close since it scoops from ground up.
If Raiden's DB3 got the same treatment it could be his best ex wake up option. one that hits twice and can't be low profiled to oblivion.
 
It is said one ball last twice as before. Before it lasted 10 game seconds, so now it should be 20sec according to this report


Well, I don't think NRS might have changed it since this move require a really great footsy to hit twice on guard (there is a special strict distance where you can afford this trick).
Let's keep in mind that in game time is 1 real second = 1 in game second. When before it was 1 in game second = 2 real second

If the math is correct with "before the orb lasted 10 seconds now it lasts 20" then the orb lasts just as long as it did before. In game time makes it seem it's on screen longer since time ticks faster
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
@Darth-Nero bug fix or buff, whatever it may be everyone knows that's what Raiden needs to compete. Given there are still several wonky things w Raiden but not what he needs to be viable. They could change all the things you are referring to and he would still have that handicap him. Maybe more fixes will cone but for now, we get to play the game again(like it should be played).
 

BlackJackSnack

Bags of mostly water
I also wish MB db3 functioned better, johnny cage can do d4 and db3 just soars right over him. There are a couple of other characters this happens to as well
 
I also wish MB db3 functioned better, johnny cage can do d4 and db3 just soars right over him. There are a couple of other characters this happens to as well
I know that's his only mid wake up, but honestly I don't even know why people have such a crutch on that move. It works as a decent at best AA but it scales horribly anyway. If they're poking you because raidens other wakeups are high, just block the poke and counter. JC d4 is -6 unless SKRC which is 0 now.

Db3 ex issues may never be fixed, I'm just recommending to break the crutch and only use that move to gain a few more percent in a combo, after shocker, to kill