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End of 2015 MKX Tier list - UK Edition

Ns_Brutalmileena

Wheres Mileener!BRUH
@Ns_Brutalmileena You should probably ease up a bit, man. If you think about it, it's honestly a good thing that not every character is set in stone yet. Even if one of those characters is my main girl. Means the game hasn't become stale yet.

I appreciate insight from different players/regions as you can always take SOMETHING away from it. It's just their opinion. They're not in control of buffs/nerfs.
Honestly I don't care what people think dude i'm going to keep speaking my mind. I do respect your words as a friend tho.They can call me unproven,downplayer,random scrub, or whatever I don't care bruh. I come on here to give my OPINION who ever doesn't like it call me and idoit or ignore me. I know what I'm capable of and how I and many others feel she stacks up to the competition.

I would be a sheep if I blindly watched the forums and never gave any input. If I'm guilty of anything its probably bumping this idiocy single handedly from the garbage can it should occupy....

In the end people can listen or ignore me.....also I can't think of one person on here who isn't bitching 24/7. I know because I read these forums alot, so when the time is right I get my turn. If you go all the way to the beginning, I was defending someone who was attacked for respectfully saying something they found negative. They had there fangs out from the start, quickly checking people calling them sheep. Sounds like these guys really want to hear are opinion lol!
 
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Mediocre offense? Are we talking about the same character? First of all, her f112 string has comparable range as Kotal Kahn's b122 string. So there's that.

On block, she gets three reps of the string without interruption. During this, if she chooses she can do her 50/50, instead if she expects that the opponent respects the frame trap. Once she's done, she's still at advantage. So she can bait armor, she can d4 and continue pressure on hit, she can throw. She can do 212 or stagger 21 and do d4. 212 will launch and the d4 will give her + frames on hit.

How on earth is the above "mediocre" pressure? This whole time, by the way, she's building meter.

I don't know enough about Takeda's match up chart to talk about him, but I'm pretty sure she has more winning match ups than Kano, who she shares a tier with allegedly.

And again, with the exception of like....Kitana or Summoner Quan or HQT Predator, I don't see any zoning in the game that's that bad. And with those characters, she's not the only one who has a hard time with their zoning, so I don't think that's a problem exclusive to D'Vorah.

Also, it's not like she has to get in their grill to start her pressure. All she needs to do is to get into d4,d3, or f1 range and then it's party time for D'Vorah.

@SaltShaker what do you think?
I never said her offense was mediocre I said her defense was. I didn t compare her to kano because not everyone agrees that he is A+ but no one has a problem with Takeda's placing on the list.
 

PND_Mustard

"More stealthful than the night"
Premium Supporter
Honestly I don't care what people think dude i'm going to keep speaking my mind. I do respect your words as a friend tho.They can call me unproven,downplayer,random scrub, or whatever I don't care bruh. I come on here to give my OPINION who ever doesn't like it call me and idoit or ignore me. I know what I'm capable of and how I and many others feel she stacks up to the competition.

I would be a sheep if I blindly watched the forums and never gave any input. If I'm guilty of anything its probably bumping this idiocy single handedly from the garbage can it should occupy....

In the end people can listen or ignore me.....also I can't think of one person on here who isn't bitching 24/7. I know because I read these forums alot, so when the time is right I get my turn. If you go all the way to the beginning, I was defending someone who was attacked for respectfully saying something they found negative. They had there fangs out from the start, quickly checking people calling them sheep. Sounds like these guys really want to hear are opinion lol!
Nice to see your apology PM you sent to us was clearly sincere.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Erron Black struggles because he has no good mids, and can't really stop people from jumping backwards in certain ranges. Because he has no mids, it means you can often full combo punish him for trying 21122, which them limits him to coming in with d4, or f1, and it's risky for him to just throw out f1 in neutral.

.
F13 is not risky in Marksman.

His d4 is one of the best in the game in terms of hit/block data so it's not a bad mid to fall back on after block strings.
 
I'm talking f13 in neutral, he's too likely to just be jumped back on.
While I agree with not having a solid mid is a big thing and it can be dangerous for people to jump his strings in the neutral, I don't think that would make him potential bottom 10. Also in gunslinger erron black doesnt really have to chase people down like that, standoff 4 gunshots are really good and if the trade is in his favor then it will definitely be very strong against characters that dont have some kind of mobility to get around it.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I'm pretty sure she has more winning match ups than Kano, who she shares a tier with allegedly.

@SaltShaker what do you think?
Sometimes in life you have to know when to disagree and when to agree to get ahead.

Yes D'Vorah is properly placed in the same tier as Kano. Clearly they are equal characters with similar MU charts. I in no way whatsoever disagree with this and it is proof that D'Vorah is a fair tier grouping and she is an honest fair character like Kano who is good enough for MKX needing no nerfs or buffs. D'Vorah and Kano are both fine and equally effective. It's a good thing that we all are on the same page with D'Vorah's fair play these days.

:coffee:
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Sometimes in life you have to know when to disagree and when to agree to get ahead.

Yes D'Vorah is properly placed in the same tier as Kano. Clearly they are equal characters with similar MU charts. I in no way whatsoever disagree with this and it is proof that D'Vorah is a fair tier grouping and she is an honest fair character like Kano who is good enough for MKX needing no nerfs or buffs. D'Vorah and Kano are both fine and equally effective. It's a good thing that we all are on the same page with D'Vorah's fair play these days.

:coffee:
How can you think Cutthroat is honest?
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
I never said her offense was mediocre I said her defense was. I didn t compare her to kano because not everyone agrees that he is A+ but no one has a problem with Takeda's placing on the list.

I never said you did, but they definitely occupy the same tier according to this list. Which means that presumably the have the same number of losing match ups and I just don't see it.

I understand that you believe her lack of an armored Reversal and an apparent difficulty with zoning puts her in A+, but I don't see it. Who is zoning her out so badly that doesn't also some out a majority of other characters?

It baffles me that Johnny Cage is a whole tier higher than her, when she has better damage, better pressure, an actual 50/50, and at the VERY least arguably comparable footsies.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
How can you think Cutthroat is honest?
How can you think Cutthroat is this super, duper, dirty character?

He has a 50/50, so do better characters. He can loop the guess in the corner unless they use a wake up attack and he gets nothing guaranteed off mb buff or knives.

I've played what is probably one of the best Kano players in EMPR Gametime, and he wins due to his skill as a player, not because of Kano's allegedly godlike tools.
 
I never said you did, but they definitely occupy the same tier according to this list. Which means that presumably the have the same number of losing match ups and I just don't see it.

I understand that you believe her lack of an armored Reversal and an apparent difficulty with zoning puts her in A+, but I don't see it. Who is zoning her out so badly that doesn't also some out a majority of other characters?

It baffles me that Johnny Cage is a whole tier higher than her, when she has better damage, better pressure, an actual 50/50, and at the VERY least arguably comparable footsies.
So following that logic are you telling me that dvorah is better than shinnok? And johnny has a better offense than dvorah in A list IMO and it has quick projectiles
 
Honestly I don't care what people think dude i'm going to keep speaking my mind. I do respect your words as a friend tho.They can call me unproven,downplayer,random scrub, or whatever I don't care bruh. I come on here to give my OPINION who ever doesn't like it call me and idoit or ignore me. I know what I'm capable of and how I and many others feel she stacks up to the competition.

I would be a sheep if I blindly watched the forums and never gave any input. If I'm guilty of anything its probably bumping this idiocy single handedly from the garbage can it should occupy....

In the end people can listen or ignore me.....also I can't think of one person on here who isn't bitching 24/7. I know because I read these forums alot, so when the time is right I get my turn. If you go all the way to the beginning, I was defending someone who was attacked for respectfully saying something they found negative. They had there fangs out from the start, quickly checking people calling them sheep. Sounds like these guys really want to hear are opinion lol!
I'm not telling you to shy away from what other people think. It's not even about that. It's the fact that even if you think these guys are wrong about her placing, (I do too), you should be able to absorb a different perspective with an open mind.

It doesn't make a difference as far as whether or not she gets the changes she needs. NRS makes that call. I do think that people aren't looking down the line with this, but to be fair, it's a 2015 tier list, not a 2016 tier list.

Also, silently browsing the forums does NOT make someone a sheep. You're only a sheep if you blindly agree with everything a known player says.
 
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SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I've played what is probably one of the best Kano players in EMPR Gametime, and he wins due to his skill as a player, not because of Kano's allegedly godlike tools.
I remember playing GameTime a lot in Injustice against his Shazam. Dude was as legit as they come. Had Shazam looking top tier lol. He's really good.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
How can you think Cutthroat is this super, duper, dirty character?

He has a 50/50, so do better characters. He can loop the guess in the corner unless they use a wake up attack and he gets nothing guaranteed off mb buff or knives.

I've played what is probably one of the best Kano players in EMPR Gametime, and he wins due to his skill as a player, not because of Kano's allegedly godlike tools.
He isn't a super duper dirty character, but Saltshaker calling him honest is laughable.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
So following that logic are you telling me that dvorah is better than shinnok? And johnny has a better offense than dvorah in A list IMO and it has quick projectiles
Is she better than Shinnok? Possibly. I think she's definitely better than Mileena and Reptile.

Is Johnny's offense definitely better than hers? I would say it isn't that clear cut. I think they're comparable, at the very least.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Here's my main issue personally with the groupings. Swarm Queen D'Vorah, Wrestler Jax, and BS Shinnok in the same grouping as Mileena and Kano. Something here is off. How can you tell me those two characters in any variation are equally as good as the first three is beyond me. Especially as someone who came from Day 1 Kano to full maining D'Vorah, it feels like pure and complete upgrade in almost every way and she is far superior imo, and I say that not to up play her but she is legitimately that good in this game, but then I read how equal she is with Kano and Mileena.

I mean if that's the narrative hey, I won't argue it at all. Works better for me.

He isn't a super duper dirty character, but Saltshaker calling him honest is laughable.
As far a Cutthroat Kano, I agree that it's his best variation, but it's HIS best, not one of THE best in the game. What it seems like people do in regards to Kano is theory fighting. Things he can supposedly do in a match but neglect what he can't do or what's nearly impractical to do. I of all people know his strengths, but in game his weaknesses show, and some even hinder his strengths. This is a problem that many other characters do not face. Like D'Vorah. For example-

I'm hearing "oh but what about those 50% combos midscreen" which is just pure misdirection. First of all, you can't just walk up and 50/50 unless you're playing scrubs. Second, you need to spend meter on block for the plus frames and for the EX Buff (no one lets you just buff midscreen and walk up to them). Third, when you land the 50/50 you spend another bar for around a 43% midscreen combo (he has no real meterless combos outside of F2). 4th you lose up to 15% health in the process. So not in theory, but in practice you will perform optimal combos/setups of a total of 2 bars for around 43ish%, while losing 15% health to pressure, or stop it at 7% health but give up all pressure and Oki options post knockdown. So say you do a practical F2 on block into presssure, here are the actual numbers behind this-

-String on block, spend a bar, guy who doesn't know the MU presses buttons and you land combo with another bar, pressure their KD. 2 total bars, 43% damage, lose 15% health. 28% life damage value.

-String on block, spend a bar, guy who knows the MU doesn't push buttons and blocks 50/50, you're safe. Lost a bar. Or even worse, he armors through non B121 strings and combo'd you.

-String on block, spend a bar, land combo with another bar, cancel EX Buff to stop health loss. 2 total bars, 43% damage, 7% health loss. 36% life damage value while having lost all post KD pressure and oki options.

How is this "so dirty filthy" like the characters listed above and some in the same tier? This isn't nearly as dirty as half of what I can list with D'Vorah and I'm sure some of the other main's like Jax/Takeda/Shinnok can say the same.

Then there's the fact that his meterless combos don't exist outside of F2, he needs to be +on block to set up anything that revolves around his 50/50, no meterless pressure for a full blown pressure character, his Buff goes away on hit even the EX when most characters don't suffer from this, his Ball Special's have the priority of a cotton ball, his chip damage itself is balls especially meterless that doesn't exist, his meter building is balls yet he relies solely on meter to even breathe, whiffing issues get you punished, his jump normals are ass, his Cutt AA's outside of uppercut are ass, etc etc etc.

To put him in the same class as the three I mentioned earlier is insane, but opinions are opinions. I've never even considered going back to Kano because D'Vorah is just so much better with half of the drawbacks. Anyone can list a bunch of stuff to make a character seem Top 10. Look where Jacqui is on this list. Now watch.

Shotgun Jacqui-

-Safe 50/50's. Second best only short of Quan Chi's.
-One of the best corner death in the entire game. Top 3 at it.
-50/50 that restands into vortex 50/50.
-inescapable chip set up that builds 85% of a bar back, 10% chip, and is safe.
-Dust that hits low and full combos into restand at mid range, EX Dust combos at any range it hits.
-Almost all strings are safe and many end plus on block.
-Some of the highest damage in the game.
-Always has meter for breaking.
-Plus on block air special that leads to 44% easy combos for 1 bar.
-Top 3 run speed in the game.
-Best forward and back walk in the game for great movement.
-etc


Then I can say "oh look how A+ Jacqui is. So underrated", but in reality her weaknesses in actual gameplay hold her back more than all the strengths. Jacqui is a great theory character and Top Tier in the training room, but not so much in actual practice. Just like Kano.
 
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Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Here's my main issue personally with the groupings. Swarm Queen D'Vorah, Wrestler Jax, and BS Shinnok in the same grouping as Mileena and Kano. Something here is off. How can you tell me those two characters in any variation are equally as good as the first three is beyond me. Especially as someone who came from Day 1 Kano to full maining D'Vorah, it feels like pure and complete upgrade in almost every way and she is far superior imo, and I say that not to up play her but she is legitimately that good in this game, but then I read how equal she is with Kano and Mileena.

I mean if that's the narrative hey, I won't argue it at all. Works better for me.





As far a Cutthroat Kano, I agree that it's his best variation, but it's HIS best, not one of THE best in the game. What it seems like people do in regards to Kano is theory fighting. Things he can supposedly do in a match but neglect what he can't do or what's nearly impractical to do. I of all people know his strengths, but in game his weaknesses show, and some even hinder his strengths. This is a problem that many other characters do not face. Like D'Vorah. For example-

I'm hearing "oh but what about those 50% combos midscreen" which is just pure misdirection. First of all, you can't just walk up and 50/50 unless you're playing scrubs. Second, you need to spend meter on block for the plus frames. Third, when you land the 50/50 you spend another bar for around a 43% midscreen combo (he has no real meterless combos outside of F2). 4th you lose up to 15% health in the process. So not in theory, but in practice you will perform optimal combos/setups of a total of 2 bars for around 43ish%, while losing 15% health to pressure, or stop it at 7% health but give up all pressure and Oki options post knockdown. So say you do a practical F2 on block into presssure, here are the actual numbers behind this-

-String on block, spend a bar, guy who doesn't know the MU presses buttons and you land combo with another bar, pressure their KD. 2 total bars, 43% damage, lose 15% health. 28% life damage value.

-String on block, spend a bar, guy who knows the MU doesn't push buttons and blocks 50/50, you're safe. Lost a bar. Or even worse, he armors through non B121 strings and combo'd you.

-String on block, spend a bar, land combo with another bar, cancel EX Buff to stop health loss. 2 total bars, 43% damage, 7% health loss. 36% life damage value while having lost all post KD pressure and oki options.

How is this "so dirty filthy" like the characters listed above and some in the same tier? This isn't nearly as dirty as half of what I can list with D'Vorah and I'm sure some of the other main's like Jax/Takeda/Shinnok can say the same.

Then there's the fact that his meterless combos don't exist outside of F2, he needs to be +on block to set up anything that revolves around his 50/50, no meterless pressure for a full blown pressure character, his Ball Special's have the priority of a cotton ball, his chip damage itself is balls especially meterless that doesn't exist, his meter building is balls yet he relies solely on meter to even breathe, whiffing issues get you punished, his jump normals are ass, his Cutt AA's outside of uppercut are ass, etc etc etc.

To put him in the same class as the three I mentioned earlier is insane, but opinions are opinions. I've never even considered going back to Kano because D'Vorah is just so much better with half of the drawbacks. Anyone can list a bunch of stuff to make a character seem Top 10. Look where Jacqui is on this list. Now watch.

Shotgun Jacqui-

-Safe 50/50's. Second best only short of Quan Chi's.
-One of the best corner death in the entire game. Top 3 at it.
-50/50 that restands into vortex 50/50.
-inescapable chip set up that builds 85% of a bar back, 10% chip, and is safe.
-Dust that hits low and full combos into restand at mid range, EX Dust combos at any range it hits.
-Almost all strings are safe and many end plus on block.
-Some of the highest damage in the game.
-Always has meter for breaking.
-Plus on block air special that leads to 44% easy combos for 1 bar.
-Top 3 run speed in the game.
-Best forward and back walk in the game for great movement.
-etc


Then I can say "oh look how A+ Jacqui is. So underrated", but in reality her weaknesses in actual gameplay hold her back more than all the strengths. Jacqui is a great theory character and Top Tier in the training room, but not so much in actual practice. Just like Kano.
Nailed it. You should sticky that top half permanently in the Kano forums.