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Why 1 bar block breakers are a necessity

So since lao gains meter like crazy and it only costs a bar to block break, he will not only have relentless offense, but because of his meter build he can break literally whenever you touch him on hit or block.
Right, but the reason he gains meter like crazy is by locking you down in block pressure. If you have a bar to break his pressure, he no longer gains the meter.
 

Solignac

Noob
1 bar block breakers is a tall order man. It would definitely disrupt the pace of the games to be completely honest with you. A 1 bar breaker would allow both players to basically control the speed of the match as they see fit. It doesn't really take any skill to block break. Mind games and reading your opponent would virtually be thrown out as you can freely just break out of pressure whenever you want. I think it would be shitty to play and shitty to watch. Especially like in the corner. If someone plays well and gets corner position, you can just push them away and have another chance to reestablish your position 100% guaranteed because of the block break pushing your opponent away so far. A read on a desperate armored wakeup to get out of the corner takes skill and allows for a punish and continued pressure. Blocking then getting a guaranteed block break for only 1 bar to basically get out of the corner is kind of weak.
 
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coolwhip

Noob
Just something to consider:

If block breakers would cost 1 bar, characters with insane pressure like Lao, Tanya etc wouldn't even have to block anything since they build so much meter on block (on top of insane chip), they would just break anything and everything. That would broke the game. Lao would be totally broken (not only semi broken like now).

Anyway just my 2 cents. Also i wouldn't expect any attention from NRS in this or at best you gonna be sent to Paulo fav. quote, coz you know he/they know best. ;)
As a Lao player, I'd much rather keep things the way they are now so that people can't block break my pressure than have it reduced to one bar. You're ignoring the other side of the coin, which is that people would then be block breaking Lao more.
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
Firstly credit to you for the post as the argument was at least well presented. The issue with 1 bar block breakers (assuming they cost all stamina) is that to me it just helps the pressure characters more. People like Lao, Tanya etc can eat a block breaker and just run in to continue their pressure and build more meter, on top of that they can break whenever any offence is initiated on them because they build meter like crazy anyway.

My completely biased opinion however is that this change would hurt Mileena. Part of her core offence is the ability to do 50/50s mid-string whenever she has meter (which already is putting her life on the line). So 1 bar block breakers would mean that in theory you would never have to take a mixup from her or even think about guessing the 50/50 as you just block break the first part of her string at all times.

In addition you say Summoner Quan needs nerfing anyway, but let's say he is untouched and this change happens. Doesn't this change just buff him even more?
 
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Ray'sGoodLiquor

I don't care I'm not a competitive player anymore
What's with this giant hugbox people are trying to create around Paulo? I've been here for three titles, and he doesn't do much more than toss out the "we already know about it" response to game breaking bug threads. Other than him working for NRS, I don't see what he's done to earn larger than life status with MK players.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
What's with this giant hugbox people are trying to create around Paulo? I've been here for three titles, and he doesn't do much more than toss out the "we already know about it" response to game breaking bug threads. Other than him working for NRS, I don't see what he's done to earn larger than life status with MK players.
Because he's lead game designer...
 

Ray'sGoodLiquor

I don't care I'm not a competitive player anymore
Because he's lead game designer...
And I see why that's a big deal to you, but the rest of us that aren't extremely pleased with the game aren't impressed. Good on him for his hard work and all, but I can't recall many incidents where he doesn't just flat out ignore the community and do what he wants. I can't think of a developer that is so protected by a tiny chunk of their community that otherwise doesn't interact or take organized suggestions.

MAYBE a few years ago I would have prayed to senpai Paulo for tidings of Ermac armor, but at this point, If I had a chance to talk to him, I'd tell him to fix his fucking games.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
And I see why that's a big deal to you, but the rest of us that aren't extremely pleased with the game aren't impressed. Good on him for his hard work and all, but I can't recall many incidents where he doesn't just flat out ignore the community and do what he wants. I can't think of a developer that is so protected by a tiny chunk of their community that otherwise doesn't interact or take organized suggestions.

MAYBE a few years ago I would have prayed to senpai Paulo for tidings of Ermac armor, but at this point, If I had a chance to talk to him, I'd tell him to fix his fucking games.
If you think Paulo ignores the community then I don't know what to tell you.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
as Shinnok I use meter to keep my pressure going, having 1 bar block breakers would make no sense and really hurt pressure chars.
 
Block Breaker should be 2 bars half stamina, I think the stamina part is what really makes it not worth at the moment....like why would I block break and then leave my self open to having to take a full combo? As said early in this chat, only use for block breaker is if ur desperate, like final round below 10% deseperate...
 

Ray'sGoodLiquor

I don't care I'm not a competitive player anymore
If you think Paulo ignores the community then I don't know what to tell you.
He has on some minor occasions, but come on man. If you had an accurate top 100 list of problems with every NRS game, Paulo would address numbers 26, 49, 88, and 91. Minor problems get swept up periodically, but you can bet your paycheck that NRS never touches the issues that have the biggest outcry. Cyrax, Kabal, MMH, netcode, you name it. Again, he does his job, but not so well that a band of people have to rally every time someone tags them on the internet.

Not blaming any of these problems on Paulo directly. Just saying it's a little over the top to say that the man is so busy weaving shit into gold thread that it's socially taboo to add an extra digit to his alert box.
 

Error404

Noob
Yeah , well it so happens that the best characters in the game have the highest meter build. I'd rather not get pushblocked by Lao everytime it's my turn to press a button.
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
I've made my opinion on this matter abundantly clear, but I'd just like to say that block breakers have a 100% success record in tournament (been used and then won the person the round).
 
I dont understand why people call a lists pressure and dfs pressure "okay" having a true block string that would still leave you plus without spending meter is not "okay"
 

KrstffrMunk

Bane/Black Manta/Captain Cold
While I'd like 1 bar 1 stamina block breakers to be implemented just to see how it turns out (and seeing as they're nigh useless atm), I think part of the issue lies in the different rates at which characters build meter.

Some characters hover at around 1 bar playing effectively while some generate enough excess meter to potentially block break every round.

Not everyone builds meter like Kang or Lao, so the cost change would make it a worthwhile tool for all characters to use instead of a select few.

"Getting in" on an opponent wont become harder, we'll just have to do it more times depending on the opponent and how they spend their meter. I'll take getting block broken over an armored launching reversal special anytime.

Block breaker leaves both players at 0, right? If not I'm an idiot and you can disregard this post.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
most people simply take issue with the fact that only 1 type of playstyle is viable And it happens to be blockstrings, stagger strings, and guessing games.
I mean, that basically describes every character in the game, which character doesn't rely on one of these things and suffers from it as a result, other than say Cybernetic Kano and Balanced Kenshi, who just need work as characters tbh


What's with this giant hugbox people are trying to create around Paulo? I've been here for three titles, and he doesn't do much more than toss out the "we already know about it" response to game breaking bug threads. Other than him working for NRS, I don't see what he's done to earn larger than life status with MK players.
And I see why that's a big deal to you, but the rest of us that aren't extremely pleased with the game aren't impressed. Good on him for his hard work and all, but I can't recall many incidents where he doesn't just flat out ignore the community and do what he wants. I can't think of a developer that is so protected by a tiny chunk of their community that otherwise doesn't interact or take organized suggestions.

MAYBE a few years ago I would have prayed to senpai Paulo for tidings of Ermac armor, but at this point, If I had a chance to talk to him, I'd tell him to fix his fucking games.
Man I entirely agree, for lead game designer of a competitive game with a tightly knit core fanbase, he does absolutely fuck all to interface with the community. You really took the words out of my mouth for how I feel about it. However I can also see the flip side of the argument, where we have an immature community that tags him in terrible shit like this that has absolutely no consensus given yet by the community other than "don't bloody change this", and if people were to see that he was to respond to tags in general, he'd get 100 of these tags, daily. I think it's a two way street at times, the proper approach would be to propose an idea to the community, get feedback, see if there is a general consensus, find something hat most people agree on, and then possibly tag Paulo, unless the conclusion is that everyone disagrees - just drop it. Instead we get threads like this shit, tagging him off the bat with "my opinion is the right one and everyone should agree, Paulo can read through the entire thread if he decides he wants the communities response" need to be locked and put to death.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Right, but the reason he gains meter like crazy is by locking you down in block pressure. If you have a bar to break his pressure, he no longer gains the meter.
He will always have more meter than you, and he will be pressuring you more. Once you start your pressure he can break instantly since he will have more meter to spend.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I edited the OP apologizing to Paulo for tagging him because I didn't know he asked not to be tagged. Can you guys please stop mentioning it now? It's not nearly relevant enough to warrant derailing this arguably very important topic.

As for what you said about block breakers being intended to keep someone from dying from chip, that might be the case, but if it is, they won't be used for that anyway. As it has been proven in tournament, either they won't have 2 bars saved up to be used at the end of the game, or they won't even remember or think to use them since they are so worthless and all they would be doing is delaying the inevitable. And even if block breakers being 1 bar did overly buff or overly nerf a few characters, as I've argued in the OP, the good that they would do for the game and the overall balance of the roster would far outweigh the bad. And any characters too negatively or too positively affected by the change could just be normalized to compensate, so that really shouldn't be an argument why block breakers shouldn't be a bar given all the obvious benefits it would bring to the game.
Ok here is a scenario for you.

Forever King is playing HQT Predator (a universally agreed to be top tier character already in the current situation with block breakers costing two bars and 1 stamina), Dizzy is King's opponent in a tournament match and given that A List Cage is a character that constantly needs to be in your grill to keep his pressure an offense going (and it is hard to get in on HQT to begin with) which means it will be a tough match for Dizzy already. Now assume we make your change to 1 bar block breakers. Well guess what? Dizzy might as well literally pick a different character. Everytime he FINALLY will get in on HQT all HQT will need to get out of his block pressure for free is 1 bar and some stamina (which he is likely to always have). This would take a character like HQT and give him a MASSIVE buff (and he is already a top tier character). It would also make rushdown/pressure characters like Cage and Flame Fist Liu Kang absolutely irrelevant. And you are saying that this change would IMPROVE balance??? Currently the rushown/pressure type characters seem quite viable but I guarantee you that would not be the case if you only needed to spend 1 bar on a block breaker. This is just one example matchup that would likely become a 9-1 or worse but I know there are many others. The Liu Kangs, Cages, Tanyas of this game would become bottom tier instantly and the characters that are already tough to get in on like HQT Pred and Quan Chi and Shinnok would all of the sudden be even more broken than some people already argue that they are. You cant make a MAJOR resource cost change without first thinking what the effect would be to the game as a whole. Yes, it may improve a few matchups or make block breakers get used more often but at what cost??? I don't think you realize what you are proposing.

Also to your above point that players "wont remember" to use a block breaker when the chip will kill them, well that is their bad. If they have 2 bars and a bar of stamina and Tanya starts rekka pressure that will kill them if she continues it and they choose not to use their block breaker well that is on them, the tool is there for exactly that situation and you cant justify the non-use by saying that "everyone will forget about it". Top players know every tool available to them at every time so this is a non argument.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
The level of "this thread is dildos" is so high on this one i dunno what gif/meme i could even use that would do it justice
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
Stamina is the bigger problem with block breakers not meter. If Lao is pressuring you and you block breaker then he is just going to put on the orbiting hat and run in and pressure you. I would much rather use my meter for armour instead of block breakers if they took all my stamina.
 

-narshkajke-

klone enthusiast
If you think this will equally nerf QC as it will buff him, then you do not have enough understanding of the game to be making this thread. If you think AList and DF need a nerf before these him, that even worse. Cmon son. AList is fine and DF is pretty close

Why do I need to make a thread? I'm happy with how it is. Get rid of the stamina cost maybe. nothing else. I love how when someone disagrees with your opinion to drastically change the nature of multiple characters at once, it's "shitting all over you". We aren't forced to agree or hold our peace, brother. When an idea sucks, its gunna get called as such. Especially if you tagging Paulo in it.



Only person who said anything about it being because he's not an established player was you and him, habibi. I even said it doesn't matter who this shit comes from

That's the issue. He just ignores them. He's constantly tagged so it's all drowned out in white noise. Maybe if he were only tagged in important threads by established players, he'd take note.
Well habibi, it's not just me and OP
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
A List and DF are top tier pressure characters, they need a nerf as all top tier pressure characters do, and most pressure characters are top tier.
You realise that the characters you are referring to here include Dualist, Flame Fist, Hat Trick, Hellfire, Ronin, etc? This would destroy them, even the top tier ones AList and DF could no longer compete and neither of them are even top 3 characters and they are well balanced with the rest of the cast. The objective of this change is wildly flawed.

The reason they need to be nerfed instead of the lower tiers being buffed is because their gameplay style is too easy and boring for how ridiculously strong it is.
Ok, for starters, LK is widely regarded as one of the hardest characters in the game to play properly. A-list and other cancel characters close behind. Secondly, it's been said many times, balancing around ease of execution/play is a terrible way to do it, because people are going to master even the hardest stuff and then there is no balance at all. Regardless, if we were to balance based on this logic, we'd be buffing them, not nerfing them. This is a silly path to go down. Stop being salty about being outplayed, learn the pressure, learn the gaps, learn how to get out of it.
 
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