What's new

Meta Temperature 1: The Variation System

Are you a variation specialist or do you use two or more variations competitively?

  • I use all three variations for competitive play to cover specific match ups.

  • I only use one variation of my chosen character(s) (reasons vary, state yours in thread)

  • I use at least two of my variations for competitive play/ match ups.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
This is probably going to completely shoot my own credibility, but meh no point in lying just to avoid going against the grain - in my opinion EB isn't even in the top half of the roster. :(
You're entitled to whatever you want, but I just think he has too many tools not to be a top ten character. That being said, the mid tier and upper mid character are pretty freakin close, so people's opionions on like 7-20 on the tier list could be flip flopped and still be perfectly plausible.
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
This is probably going to completely shoot my own credibility, but meh no point in lying just to avoid going against the grain - in my opinion EB isn't even in the top half of the roster. :(




lol --

but really - his tools are just too good not to consider him at least top 10 ( if you believe in such things)

i mean countless tick set ups -
50/50s
AA confirms
cow trops
slide
sand - even though sand is really not super great - jesus lord does is seem like forever on hit- that some striaght mind fucking right there - lol


Edit- sorry pic is so big
And all that being said - i think this match up is at least 5-5 SR takeda so im happy :)
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Easily dvorahs match. Sub gets curb stomped. That's why I use johnny cage. I was agreeing with you from the start, I just think it's not as terrible a matchup as everyone says. An observation a made about sub(specifically grandmaster) is he is all over the place in matchups. Gets mopped by dvorah, but destroys Kotal kahn just as bad. Like he has 5-5s but a lot of his fights are polarizing. The Klone can nullify many characters normals. Dvorahs fucking ovipositors that don't have a hurtbox tho are terrible. He is a good character to have know as he is dominant in ways some characters can't be, but he also loses badly to several characters so hes best used not as a solo main. Jax is freakin rediculous tho, I don't see what he is missing.
Yo I've made the same statement, GM match ups are super polarised. He can absolutely destroy some top tiers like Jax & Cassie, Reptile and Kotal and the like all get the D, but he can also struggle against weird characters like Goro, and gets Molly whopped by DVorah. He is however, an absolutely amazing pocket cause he shits on so many top tiers lol and his footsie game just plays itself even if you haven't played the character in weeks he's easy to jump back into. I'd never play him against DVorah or Quan, but some people are more brave than me I guess lol
 

xZoro

War God.
You're entitled to whatever you want, but I just think he has too many tools not to be a top ten character. That being said, the mid tier and upper mid character are pretty freakin close, so people's opionions on like 7-20 on the tier list could be flip flopped and still be perfectly plausible.
Flip flopped.
Currently dying with laughter.
But on a serious note, youre right. The top 10-20 are honestly up for debate whichever way you look at it.
Dvorah (Who IMO is around 12 13) Is just as good as say, Ferra/Torr. (Who IMO is around 18-20) Its all opinion

And if there's one thing TYM taught me it's opinions are like assholes...Everyone has one.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
You're entitled to whatever you want, but I just think he has too many tools not to be a top ten character. That being said, the mid tier and upper mid character are pretty freakin close, so people's opionions on like 7-20 on the tier list could be flip flopped and still be perfectly plausible.
Everything's super close I agree (other than the top 3) to the point that I wouldn't even call people crazy if they put Kitana or Kotal or nearly anyone in their top 10. That's the beauty of it. I got EB just below 15.




lol --

but really - his tools are just too good not to consider him at least top 10 ( if you believe in such things)


Edit- sorry pic is so big
Just an opinion bro, it's not like I'm shitting on anyone who feels different, I can respect that this character has made a big impact on the competitive scene and that's left an imprint with a lot of people. I just think EB is no where near as good as people think, and as time goes on we will see less and less of him, just like we currently have been.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Flip flopped.
Currently dying with laughter.
But on a serious note, youre right. The top 10-20 are honestly up for debate whichever way you look at it.
Dvorah (Who IMO is around 12 13) Is just as good as say, Ferra/Torr. (Who IMO is around 18-20) Its all opinion

And if there's one thing TYM taught me it's opinions are like assholes...Everyone has one.
Pretty much lol ferra/torr is actually a pretty damn decent character.
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
Everything's super close I agree (other than the top 3) to the point that I wouldn't even call people crazy if they put Kitana or Kotal or nearly anyone in their top 10. That's the beauty of it. I got EB just below 15.



Just an opinion bro, it's not like I'm shitting on anyone who feels different, I can respect that this character has made a big impact on the competitive scene and that's left an imprint with a lot of people. I just think EB is no where near as good as people think, and as time goes on we will see less and less of him, just like we currently have been.

haha all good man im just playing around.

i put this in spoiler tags to not derail the thread.
but honestly - i think one of the main reasons we arent seeing him that much is in direct relation to sonic fox. Sonic fox hasnt be using him as frequently as his was in the early days. and thus i feel has put a direct impact on EBs fan base. ( that and his skins, lol)
plus a lot of EB i run into are all offense but lacking in defensive/neutral skills so i can more of them dropping him as time progresses . People turn a blind eye to the neutral that Sonic plays with erron and thus when they try to replicate his (or other top players for that matter) EB, they fall short and thus have been moving on.

But for those that are taking the time to put in the work as much with EBs defensive game as much as his offensive, and can play him in neutral, are a very big threat . Esp those that know more than just OH L ex sand grenade. in average hands , yes hes prob below 10 but the right dedication can push him above that imo.

but then again its all in the air cause one thing i always ask my self is " with tier lists -what is the median for skill level?" i mean characters have a certain weight to them but what is better to base the skill level on - do we try to base this on being able to play the character at the highest skill level possible or more only on tools/options vs others in the cast.
 
War God for characters who have strong 50/50s since i won't be able to block everything I count on my superior range to win the neutral game and avoid putting myself in difficult to defend situations. Sun God for zoners, I can parry projectiles, counter-zone with fire pizzas, and pressure opponents with block/tick strings up close. Blood God against pressure characters, the defense totem lets you handle their excessive pressure and react accordingly and you can get some great comebacks with the damage totem. If you're worse than me then i'll just use whichever variation I feel like. I've played people to a first to 3 with each variation and have them switch as well.
 

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
For the most part I stick to a single variation as I tend to be very average skillwise and it takes me a while to really commit a character to muscle memory. The chars I play:

Goro - The only character I will consistently play all three variations with. I've probably played the most with Kuatan because I play a ton of matches vs. a buddy's Cyber Kano and find the ground pound to be invaluable.
Predator: Mostly Hunter, with a little HQT thrown in occasionally. No Warrior, 'cus Warrior.
Raiden: Thunder God. One of my lesser played characters so just haven't put in the practice time with the other two.
Liu Kang: Extensive experience with Flamefist, much less with Dragon Fire, and absolutely none with Dualist.
Jason: Only started playing him recently. Slasher so far, because it feels and looks more satisfying than bareknuckled stubby normals from Relentless and Unstoppable and because I stink at executing command throws consistently. I will probably pick up Relentless at some point.
 

Sunny_D

Green Arrows personal Shooty guy
I use all variations of Kotal Kahn and Erron Black, I use war god for most matchups and only a handful for sun god. the only time I use blood god is in sun god matchups for when I want to take a bigger risk for more damage. And Erron gunslinger for most matchups and Outlaw for rushdown, saving marksman for counterzoning.
 

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
This is probably going to completely shoot my own credibility, but meh no point in lying just to avoid going against the grain - in my opinion EB isn't even in the top half of the roster. :(
You dont think erron black is top 10 or just outside, because that crazy he is really good , with plenty of dirt.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
For me I use 2 variations, mainly Bone Shaper as the primary variation while I end up using Impostor as my go to counterpick variation (mainly to counterpick mid tier Quan which is basically a better version of BS). I use Necro as more of a fun variation and not anything i'd carry to a tourney as it's already outclased by BS anyway.
 

Gh0sty

ばかみたいに無料
I only use one variation because I've changed characters about every 2 months since the game dropped. As a result, I haven't really found a character that I felt as though I've built up enough competence with to explore the additional variations besides the one I started with.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Optimally, the best choice would be to learn all three variations for your character in order to minimize the problem of bad match-ups, which was the whole point in the concept. But for some of us, specific variations fit us better than others.

In my case, I prefer Ninjutsu Scorpion simply for the amount of range it allows me to control, as well as the conditioning that can be applied once the respect is there. I may learn Hellfire eventually, but Ninjutsu's options just strike a better chord with me so for the time being, I am a "variation specialist." LOL.

I do use Kitana with only one variation as well (Royal Storm). Like with Scorpion, Royal Storm adheres to a preference I don't think I'll find in Assassin or Mournful.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
Yeah, that last sentence is exactly it. Even characters with good choice between variations often tend to suffer against the same things. I wouldn't have Sub on your list, I can't think of a single losing GM match up that goes from losing to winning by switching to Cryomancer except for maybe Raiden. Although he does COVER a lot of match-ups by making them 5-5, if you are willing to switch up your playstyle - why not cover it with a character who can actually take the advantage in some of your weakest match ups. Is my perspective on the matter.
The only characters I can think of that can switch variations to cover bad matchups are Quan, jax, sonya, and sometimes sub, erron, and tremor. Cassie has 3 good variations but they all end up suffering against the same characters.

This is another point I was hoping people would bring up. For example, Goro beats Mileena pretty decisively across variations. It doesn't matter whether she uses Ethereal, Ravenous or Piercing. Goro can use any combination of his three variations and she still loses to him at least 4-6 and in this instance, you're not gonna go even or win by changing variations. Same thing on the flip side, Goro changing variations doesn't make HQT Predator shift from a losing match up at all. For many characters, a variation switch for the most part seems to abuse a lack of familiarity with a match up more so than being a viable "counter pick" to the struggle match ups. Exceptions exist, but everyone certainly doesn't have three variations that cover every match up.

That was another reason for my solo variation choice and why if I ever find a Goro match up bad enough, I'll just use a secondary (here's hoping for Sindel :p ).
 

RM slacked

Shinnok trash from Canada.
I use all 3 for Shinnok, 1 for Tanya, all 3 for jax, all 3 for kotal, and 1 of basically each character.

I get bored alot and like to figure out things with every character.
 
Quality thread, dude. When counter-picking I switch characters, period. It acts as a mental and emotional reset--to default match confidence.

So far I've picked my mains based on personality and overall playstyle, and then gone about determining which variation is the most effective against a majority of the cast. When the bad match-ups arise, the cycle begins again.

(I'm not particularly fond of the variation system. As a combo junkie, the hypothetical possibilities of in-game variation switching are mighty tempting to contemplate. The humble couch developer in me can't figure out why NRS spent so much effort balancing the current game when they seemingly could have expended the same amount of effort balancing a game in which the characters had access to all of their respective variations. That game would be hyper than the current version IMO, but I'm not complaining. MKX is the jam.)