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SFV Beta Discussion

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GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
EntropicByDesign said:
Krav Maga is self defense. I would take MMA training over Kung Fu or many other traditional martial arts training for self defense in a heart beat. As a matter of fact, American style boxing is.one of the absolute BEST methods of self defense on the planet. Supplimemted with a little basic grappling. Shock and awe stop most confrontations, which any form of self defense teaches (ie, heavily damaging someone right away because you know how to throw a punch), but if it moves past the skill gap phase and in to an actual fight, most traditional martial arts re not equipped to deal with it.

I have no intention of continuing to argue over the internet about real fighting beyond this last post. Your experience differs from mine so drastically that I have no idea how we would ever meet in the middle and I can't think of a single thing more pathetic than two grown men argueing on the internet about how real fights will play out. I don't mean that as a potshot, I'm.arguing too, in just saying , in general, my reasons for not wanting to continue this argument lol. We both have experience and our opinions differ considerably, to which I can only shrug. The low and amateur levels of mma competitions are a lot more street fight than sport, it stabalizes as you.climb the ladder.

I DO hope we can both agree.that if your aim is purely self defense, you'll just go learn Krav Maga and kill everyone forever.
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Agreed that arguing is silly and I'm not saying that you know nothing, but your awareness of kung fu application is lacking.

Everyone always thinks their way is best, but traditional Shaolin Kung Fu - when learned from a real master and not watered down - would give anyone, at any level, serious issues.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Lol why are we talking about adding more realistic fighters to a game designed entirely around goofy shit like being able to uppercut someone so hard they are launched at a height that would require enough force to decapitate someone, or igniting someone with fire brewed from someone's stomach and they get right back up. Or shoot concentrated fireballs of chi effortlessly. Or hover in the air and travel 30 feet while spinning with their leg out.

The funny part is that this is a complaint, despite said person with complaint has "Cyborgs to MKX..." as their user title, presumably desiring the addition of cybernetically converted Chinese assassins who fight with endless supplies of missiles, grenades, flamethrowers, buzzsaws, and plasma nets that can slice, all of which don't kill unless the opponent is in a submissive state of dizziness...and who also transport themselves by disassembling and reassembling or entering the Matrix. Into a game where a Shaolin monk transforms into a flaming Chinese Dragon and people travel to different universes via magical portals.

Lol I don't understand.
 
Groove Heaven

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
Needlessly clinging to realism tends to make entertainment less entertaining. Sometimes game developers put unique characters and elements in their games because, you know...it's their art and they wanna make it artistic instead of being a bunch of swoll dudes in karategis fighting until they get knocked out in like 3 punches.
 
mercureXI

mercureXI

Punching bag that throws fans !
SF isn't about MMA fighting or something.

It never was about being realistic, never will be.

Unless you actually learn how to hadouken IRL during any random Kung-Fu session.


I'd understand asking for realism for things like MMA sponsored games or hell even WWE games.

But SFV ?

L O L
 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
mercureXI said:
SF isn't about MMA fighting or something.

It never was about being realistic, never will be.

Unless you actually learn how to hadouken IRL during any random Kung-Fu session.


I'd understand asking for realism for things like MMA sponsored games or hell even WWE games.

But SFV ?

L O L
Click to expand...
SFII had believable fighters. Why doesn't SFV?
 
mercureXI

mercureXI

Punching bag that throws fans !
GAV said:
SFII had believable fighters. Why doesn't SFV?
Click to expand...
MK1 had digitized fighters. Why doesn't MKX ?

More seriously, what is your definition of "believable" fighters ?

Because last time I checked, Blanka from SFII or even Dhalsim seem way off the dictionary definition ...

And you have plenty of "believable" characters in SFV, just Ryu/Ken to begin with, but honestly I hardly see any character that feels like "goofy" besides Rainbow Mika, but she is a wrestler, these guys are all goofies and do that for a living anyway ... (but there's still hope for a "believable" cyborg Mika as DLC lol)

Now, I still don't see the point in arguing about that, since making characters "realistic" wouldn't make the game any better ...

You may prefer it that way, but core mechanics and gameplay are what matters in a fighting game, not its visuals (unless of course it's ugly as hell, but SFV is hardly ugly).

That and how well online works, which should be, nowdays, one of the first priorities when it comes to fighting games (and not adding a Krypt or some random towers ...).
 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
mercureXI said:
MK1 had digitized fighters. Why doesn't MKX ?

More seriously, what is your definition of "believable" fighters ?

Because last time I checked, Blanka from SFII or even Dhalsim seem way off the dictionary definition ...

And you have plenty of "believable" characters in SFV, just Ryu/Ken to begin with, but honestly I hardly see any character that feels like "goofy" besides Rainbow Mika, but she is a wrestler, these guys are all goofies and do that for a living anyway ... (but there's still hope for a "believable" cyborg Mika as DLC lol)

Now, I still don't see the point in arguing about that, since making characters "realistic" wouldn't make the game any better ...

You may prefer it that way, but core mechanics and gameplay are what matters in a fighting game, not its visuals (unless of course it's ugly as hell, but SFV is hardly ugly).

That and how well online works, which should be, nowdays, one of the first priorities when it comes to fighting games (and not adding a Krypt or some random towers ...).
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Believable means having some semblance of possibility of being a viable fighter.

Some characters are so bad that they eliminate the third wall by breaking the fiction.
 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
EntropicByDesign said:
Krav Maga is self defense. I would take MMA training over Kung Fu or many other traditional martial arts training for self defense in a heart beat. As a matter of fact, American style boxing is.one of the absolute BEST methods of self defense on the planet. Supplimemted with a little basic grappling. Shock and awe stop most confrontations, which any form of self defense teaches (ie, heavily damaging someone right away because you know how to throw a punch), but if it moves past the skill gap phase and in to an actual fight, most traditional martial arts re not equipped to deal with it.

I have no intention of continuing to argue over the internet about real fighting beyond this last post. Your experience differs from mine so drastically that I have no idea how we would ever meet in the middle and I can't think of a single thing more pathetic than two grown men argueing on the internet about how real fights will play out. I don't mean that as a potshot, I'm.arguing too, in just saying , in general, my reasons for not wanting to continue this argument lol. We both have experience and our opinions differ considerably, to which I can only shrug. The low and amateur levels of mma competitions are a lot more street fight than sport, it stabalizes as you.climb the ladder.

I DO hope we can both agree.that if your aim is purely self defense, you'll just go learn Krav Maga and kill everyone forever.
Click to expand...
I've sparred with Krav Maga masters. Now, we weren't aiming to hurt one another - but I felt very strongly that kung fu techniques were superior. I never felt like I didn't have the upper hand.

I've also sparred against Tai Chi masters and at no point in those sparring sessions did I feel like I had the upper hand. It may be that the Tai Chi masters were more familiar with Shaolin Kung Fu. I wish I could have watched the Krav Maga masters spar with the Tai Chi masters. It may have been level as well, but my experience left me much more intrigued with Tai Chi than Krav Maga. Both were impressive though.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
GAV said:
SFII had believable fighters. Why doesn't SFV?
Click to expand...
Let's see.

-2 shotokan-based characters who shot chi fireballs, did leaping uppercuts high into the air, hovered by spinning with their leg out.
-A kung-fu femme fatale who kicked so fast her legs blurred, spun upside down, and jumped really fucking high off of walls like she was in Ninja Gaiden.
-A military head who shot spinning energy discs out of his hands and could backflip 50 feet into the air.
-A sumo wrestler who shot across the screen with a diving headbutt and could swing his hands so fast they blurred.
-A pro-wrestler who learned to do a high-leaping, spinning piledriver from being caught in a fucking tornado while piledriving a bear. A fucking bear.
-An Indian version of Mr. Fantastic who teleported and spat fire.
-A Spanish ninja with a claw, and could dive off of walls.
-A boxer who did sliding punches.
-A Muay Thai fighter who shot chi fireballs and did the same damn uppercut as the shotokan fighters.
-A crime syndicate overlord who could jump high as shit, and set himself in a rainbow fire to hit you like a torpedo.
-A Jamaican kickboxer who threw fireballs.
-A Native American who flew like a goddamn bird.
-An English military woman who learned to do Tommy's Ninjetti Corkscrew Kick (OOYAH) from the Power Rangers movie.
-Bruce Lee with flaming feet.
-A super powerful shotokan fighter like the first 2 who could shot fireballs from the air, glide across the ground, and killed you by turning the screen black.

...None of this besides MAYBE the boxer sounds believable.
 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
KHTC Takgillo said:
Yoga Flame
Click to expand...
THTB said:
Let's see.

-2 shotokan-based characters who shot chi fireballs, did leaping uppercuts high into the air, hovered by spinning with their leg out.
-A kung-fu femme fatale who kicked so fast her legs blurred, spun upside down, and jumped really fucking high off of walls like she was in Ninja Gaiden.
-A military head who shot spinning energy discs out of his hands and could backflip 50 feet into the air.
-A sumo wrestler who shot across the screen with a diving headbutt and could swing his hands so fast they blurred.
-A pro-wrestler who learned to do a high-leaping, spinning piledriver from being caught in a fucking tornado while piledriving a bear. A fucking bear.
-An Indian version of Mr. Fantastic who teleported and spat fire.
-A Spanish ninja with a claw, and could dive off of walls.
-A boxer who did sliding punches.
-A Muay Thai fighter who shot chi fireballs and did the same damn uppercut as the shotokan fighters.
-A crime syndicate overlord who could jump high as shit, and set himself in a rainbow fire to hit you like a torpedo.
-A Jamaican kickboxer who threw fireballs.
-A Native American who flew like a goddamn bird.
-An English military woman who learned to do Tommy's Ninjetti Corkscrew Kick (OOYAH) from the Power Rangers movie.
-Bruce Lee with flaming feet.
-A super powerful shotokan fighter like the first 2 who could shot fireballs from the air, glide across the ground, and killed you by turning the screen black.

...None of this besides MAYBE the boxer sounds believable.
Click to expand...
You can punch holes in anything if you want.

Joke fighters break the fiction for me. None of these ever broke the fiction.

Fighters that are all joke, like Mika, do. It isn't complex.
 
BenGmanUk

BenGmanUk

Get staffed bro
EntropicByDesign said:
Krav Maga is self defense. I would take MMA training over Kung Fu or many other traditional martial arts training for self defense in a heart beat. As a matter of fact, American style boxing is.one of the absolute BEST methods of self defense on the planet. Supplimemted with a little basic grappling. Shock and awe stop most confrontations, which any form of self defense teaches (ie, heavily damaging someone right away because you know how to throw a punch), but if it moves past the skill gap phase and in to an actual fight, most traditional martial arts re not equipped to deal with it.
Click to expand...
I studied many different martial arts for over a decade and hold two different black belts and echo this. Traditional martial arts are close to useless for real world self defense and in some cases give a false sense of confidence in a real encounter where you would better off with no training at all. One of the biggest problems in traditional systems is never learning to take a punch and never learning how to understand and deal with adrenaline. It is the undoing of almost everyone once outside the chip shop on a friday night when things kick off.

If I were to give advice on what to learn, it would be straight up boxing, with grappling work like judo as assistance and how to stay off the ground, not roll around on it so someones mate can kick your head off whilst you choke someone out.

Sorry for off topic but it's a subject I'm passionate about lol
 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
BenGmanUk said:
I studied many different martial arts for over a decade and hold two different black belts and echo this. Traditional martial arts are close to useless for real world self defense and in some cases give a false sense of confidence in a real encounter where you would better off with no training at all. One of the biggest problems in traditional systems is never learning to take a punch and never learning how to understand and deal with adrenaline. It is the undoing of almost everyone once outside the chip shop on a friday night when things kick off.

If I were to give advice on what to learn, it would be straight up boxing, with grappling work like judo as assistance and how to stay off the ground, not roll around on it so someones mate can kick your head off whilst you choke someone out.

Sorry for off topic but it's a subject I'm passionate about lol
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The reason your awareness is lacking is because not all martial arts training is the same.
 
BenGmanUk

BenGmanUk

Get staffed bro
GAV said:
The reason your awareness is lacking is because not all martial arts training is the same.
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How is my awareness is lacking and when did I say all martial arts training is the same? There are undoubtedly some traditional martial arts instructors that do tend to focus on more realistic aspects. These are almost always people that have cross trained or have previous experience in other systems.

Aspects such as pre fight, posturing, preemptive attacks, adrenaline etc are rarely taught in traditional schools, and even if they are, do not form part of the original syllabus.

Is there any way to get in on any more SF5 stuff prior to launch?
 
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THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
GAV said:
You can punch holes in anything if you want.

Joke fighters break the fiction for me. None of these ever broke the fiction.

Fighters that are all joke, like Mika, do. It isn't complex.
Click to expand...
None of those ever broke the fiction...?

So you're telling me Dhalsim in his entirety is not as much of a joke character as R. Mika...? And that all of this shit these characters do is anywhere close to believable...?

You really aren't making any sense whatsoever.
 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
BenGmanUk said:
How is my awareness is lacking and when did I say all martial arts training is the same? There are undoubtedly some traditional martial arts instructors that do tend to focus on more realistic aspects. These are almost always people that have cross trained or have previous experience in other systems.

Aspects such as pre fight, posturing, preemptive attacks, adrenaline etc are rarely taught in traditional schools, and even if they are, do not form part of the original syllabus.

Is there any way to get in on any more SF5 stuff prior to launch?
Click to expand...
You said kung fu is less applicable than boxing, wrestling, and MMA in real life altercations. I know that to be 100% false, so your awareness is lacking.

Very few kung fu instructors outside of China know more than just the basics. Very few karate instructors outside of Japan know more than just the basics. Same with Krav Maga outside of Isreal.

When kung fu concepts are fully understood and applied correctly, they are much more applicable in real life application than any technique derived from sport.

There was a hacked PC version talked about in this very thread a few pages back.

I used to love when people would tell me they were a black belt. My reaction was to see what they learned. Almost always, it was hardly anything.
 
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