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Are Nrs Games The Scrubbiest Games (easiest to learn) in the Fgc?

Are Nrs games the srubbiest (easiest to learn) in the fgc?

  • Yes

    Votes: 64 32.5%
  • No

    Votes: 133 67.5%

  • Total voters
    197

Belial

Noob
The most popular Japanese fighting game in the community, SF4, has players that regularly go to alternate characters when the matchup calls for it. Almost 95% of the Elena players are just using her as a 2nd or 3rd character. We've also seen alt. Evil Ryus, Sagats, Rose's, Chun Li's, Decapres and a number of other characters have big influences on high profile matches in majors.

The #1 ranked Ultra player in the world plays 3-4 characters. Aside from him, Xian, Infiltration, and various other players who rank among the most successful and respected of all time all play multiple characters.

The 2013 Tekken Tag 2 EVO champion played 3 completely different teams (6 characters).

I'm not sure where this talking point came from..
Well Im not completely informed on current state of SF meta. However remember this game is like 7 years old and is also paying like a good job for top players. Maybe my point was ill-illustrated by this statement, however truth is learning curves are nowhere close.
 

Rocket

For the Shirai Ryu.
well if it ain't my favourite condiment to put on a piece and sausage, you not giving up on mkx yet?.
 

Skellington

Banned

ESL in NA had 250 entrants two weeks ago and 350 last week for online tournaments alone. Numbers are consistent and in some ways on the rise as the weeks go by because of the amount of support this game is receiving at a high level.
It's not hard when it's free to enter and your opponent can be playing at his local McDonald's with his McDonald's Wifi. Also, It is clear that you didn't read Shyyzmm's posts. Btw, you forgot to call him a sheep which is the cool thing to do nowdays
 
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Undergroundepict

I am like the blue rose
Accessibility =/= Skill Ceiling.

The fact that performing certain inputs and hitting certain links in NRS titles is easier than in games like Street Fighter is a good thing.

A somewhat common argument I hear in MKX vs. SF4 debates essentially boils down to "SF4 is better because the execution barrier is higher." Now, I do not play SF4 (although I have tested it out), and therefore I hold no opinion with regards to which game is better between the two. That said, arguing that SF4 is better because of its absurd execution barriers is not only backwards, but also an out-and-out logical fallacy.

Having a lower barrier for basic execution is objectively good (Keep in mind that "barrier" and "ceiling" are two different things, i.e. MKX still has Instant Air Ground Pounds, Fireball Cancels, and 3 frame links).

So no, MKX isn't "scrubby." There is nothing "scrubby" about not having to break your fingers trying to get fireballs out consistently, or not having to pray to whatever gods you believe in that your dragon punch will come out.

This is why SFV is increasing the length of the input and combo windows over what they were in previous titles. They were finally smart enough to realize that requiring 1-frame links for everything was pretentious and esoteric. As such, I might just give SFV a real try.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Except actual 3D fighters like Virtua Fighter, Tekken, and DOA also use hitstun based combo systems. Juggles alone doesn't mean a game doesn't work on hitsun, and Tekken actually has grounded combos that work because of it. All doing it like NRS does is make the combo system feel canned and limited.
Virtua Fighter and Tekken are not "hitstun based" combo systems. They do have some crumple style moves that allow you to combo off of, but by large, the combo system is not based around hitstun. It's more of a juggle based system with some other mechanics added in, like guaranteed otg's and ground bounces. Hell, there are strings in tekken that don't even combo on hit due to it not being a system based on hitstun.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
I assumed you were trying to bring up how divisive people could be in preferance in brand colas - how either you're pepsi or cola guy. I didn't look up any study from 40 years ago.

Read up and there's a completely valid explaination why Pepsi did well in taste tests over Coke despite Coke overtaking them in sales to this very day. Funnily enough, much like nrs games, Pepsi is good - at first. It's just sweeter than Coke. Everyone can enjoy a sip of Pepsi until your halfway through a bottle and then it becomes bland like all sweet things. People will finish the bottle of Coke though. Coke has much more lasting power both in style and quality proven by Pepsi still losing. So of course in a taste test, a few sips, Pepsi could win. In the long run? Not a chance.

I used to work at a resturant that surprisingly didn't serve Coke. When taking drink orders, you know how many times I had to respond to with "I'm sorry, is Pepsi ok?" You ever hear anyone order a Jack and Pepsi? "The Pepsi Challenge" was a good marketing gimmick, something nrs are experts at themselves, but Pepsi was never truly better. Coke has always been the fundamentally better product and most people do like better. The numbers don't lie.

You're right, I can't think of a better metaphor for SF and NRS games than that, thanks.
Lol. You're using a hyphothesized explanation to discredit a metaphor that represents a million different things. If they literally switched the formulas for the two sodas and put coke in a pepsi bottle and vice versa, I don't think anyone who works in marketing would tell you anything would change. You worked in a restaurant that served only Pepsi products, and people ask for coke because it's gotten to the point that in some areas "coke" is literally used as a term for soda in which they typically just expect a coke in return. The product is so ingrained in our culture that it's almost always the first thing that pops into peoples' heads when they think of soda, and is so reliably available because of that that when they don't want water/tea/beer they know they can just ask for coke.

Do you think marketing's just there for fun? Do you think brand recognition has no impact on a product and their competitors? If so, I recommend you not enter into business. This isn't a theory, it's a fact of the business world that competitor brands often can only look to reduce and rarely replace with themselves.

Look at Uber vs Lyft as another good example. Uber's been trashed in the media for their poor business practices and treatment of workers, but they dominate their market. Meanwhile, Lyft has similar price points and is often better received, while giving better treatment to their drivers. Yet, it doesn't have the name recognition because of the boom that came via Uber, the same way the boom came in competitive fighting games via the capcom scene. How often do you hear someone say "oh let's call an uber"? If you hear someone say "let me call a lyft" you might be like "wait what".
 

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
Nah, stop deflecting. Saying "b-but what about those games!" doesn't make your game any better. Nobody actually cares about nrs games in the majority of the fgc because it's known for shitty netcode, poor game design, and a toxic community. I don't know how you can watch a game of SFV with counter hit setups and throw baits, real anti-airs then look at mkx where counter hit setups are mash armor into 30% after negative frames and frametraps consist of jailing your opponent into 50/50s for close to half their life - then come with the conclusion of "What's the difference?" Give me a break.

Idk what's happening over there at Marvel but even with their touch of death combos and bad netcode it's still attracts more players than nrs games pull which speaks volumes

If you enjoy nrs games, that's fine. Good for you. When you're insecurity based on how the community feels toward your game leads you to say things like it's "all the same" well, get some perspective. I don't hate nrs games either, I'm just not delusional. You're the guy who thinks it's impossible for people to dislike games you like... otherwise they're sheep. Keep wondering why nrs community gets a bad rap though.
if you think this game is still 50/50s you're like far behind meta wise
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
Lol. You're using a hyphothesized explanation to discredit a metaphor that represents a million different things. If they literally switched the formulas for the two sodas and put coke in a pepsi bottle and vice versa, I don't think anyone who works in marketing would tell you anything would change. You worked in a restaurant that served only Pepsi products, and people ask for coke because it's gotten to the point that in some areas "coke" is literally used as a term for soda in which they typically just expect a coke in return. The product is so ingrained in our culture that it's almost always the first thing that pops into peoples' heads when they think of soda, and is so reliably available because of that that when they don't want water/tea/beer they know they can just ask for coke.

Do you think marketing's just there for fun? Do you think brand recognition has no impact on a product and their competitors? If so, I recommend you not enter into business. This isn't a theory, it's a fact of the business world that competitor brands often can only look to reduce and rarely replace with themselves.

Look at Uber vs Lyft as another good example. Uber's been trashed in the media for their poor business practices and treatment of workers, but they dominate their market. Meanwhile, Lyft has similar price points and is often better received, while giving better treatment to their drivers. Yet, it doesn't have the name recognition because of the boom that came via Uber, the same way the boom came in competitive fighting games via the capcom scene. How often do you hear someone say "oh let's call an uber"? If you hear someone say "let me call a lyft" you might be like "wait what".
Oh ya, I forgot how Pepsi is just this undergound thing and Coke is mainstream. That's it.

New Coke, the product put out specifically to combat Pepsi in taste tests was a sales failure despite the same ad campaigns. I'd like to see you explain that? Taste tests don't tell the full story and saying Pepsi is overall a better drink because it was preferred in small sips doesn't prove a thing. People choose what provides immediate pleasure and don't think about the subtlelty of the drink.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Besides. Do you really want ermac to be able to go d3, d3, d3, f4 and have that combo? It'd be ridiculous if characters could link like sf characters.
Isn't it ridiculous that SFV characters can link like that too though?
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Oh ya, I forgot how Pepsi is just this undergound thing and Coke is mainstream. That's it.

New Coke, the product put out specifically to combat Pepsi in taste tests was a sales failure despite the same ad campaigns. I'd like to see you explain that? Taste tests don't tell the full story and saying Pepsi is overall a better drink because it was preferred in small sips doesn't prove a thing. People choose what provides immediate pleasure and don't think about the subtlelty of the drink.
You know it's great that you are understanding the analogy I put together but you still shit on NRS and their games like they are the sewer system of fighting games.

My point was NRS has got an undeserved reputation. I don't even mind if street fighter is the "McDonald's" of the fgc; virtually untouchable. But you and a lot of players who post of TYM act like MKX and NRS games are the White Castle of fighting games, and that's where the disconnect is.

Can you at least give in that much? Or are you that hellbent on shitting on NRS games?
 
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Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Just for clarities sake about MKX tournament numbers in recent months

Defend the North
SF4- 160
MKX- 80
Marvel- 80

Canada Cup
SF4- 272
Smash- 112
Marvel- 80
MKX- 60

SCR(These are just how big of a bracket they ran, but shows that MKX was at least comparable to SF4 and more than Mahvel)
SF4- 226
MKX- 120
Marvel- 64


So Shaz is right that Marvel pulls more numbers at regionals, but at the last major MKX had almost twice as many entrants as Marvel. NEC will be the true test to see where MKX stands as far as entrants go, IMO.
 
It takes skill just like any other fighting game. You have to have good spacing, mind games, be able to read your opponent well just like all the others. But I will say this. I've found in my experience it takes a lot less time to master an nrs game than something like tekken or even smash melee.