HMK #21 W/ Phosferrax & PND Mustard

After a week off we are back with another episode to disucss the goings in for ESL week 2, 3 and a moderately juicy discussion on our current best picks for the best representatives for every character in the roster. We also get into our top picks for characters that cannot go without further adjustments whether they be high or low tier.

Usual stuff is below, hope everyone enjoys

MP3 Version

http://www.mediafire.com/download/oxxfw0apo793cmb/HMK+Ep+21.mp3
Start - ESL Week 2 and 3 discussion / thoughts.
24:00 - The top 5 characters that shouldn't be left out of future updates. Namely when KP2 hits.
50:00 - How / if do you become better at making reads in a game where 50/50's and mixups are very strong.
1:00:00 - (Juicy) Who is the current best player for every character?
1:16:00 - What is it about fighting games that makes it so hard to get into compared to other games and what can be done to make it easier for newer audiences to get into it?

@Phosferrax @TheGabStandard @GiM | ZigZag @PND i2 Gaug3 @PND OmegaK @PND_Ketchup @PND_Mustard @Youphemism @Scott The Scot @PunkMafia83 @Klesk_1 @ChatterBox @xarakamaka @A F0xy Grampa @Madzin @The_Tile @STRYKIE @Undeadjim @SneakyTortoise @BenGmanUk @ENDeverMORE @The Bearded Dan

@JustinXavier21 @JustinXavier21 @JustinXavier21

Justin confirmed best mileena. Kappa.

@st9rm @TackyHaddock @aieches @xZoro @FireBreather @PunkMafia83 @rubmytaco

these some interesting topics-gonna take a listen in bought an hour.

I liked the whole, 'Best representative of eevery character' And how some regions have certain characters on lock, Like europe having the best subs and stuff like that.

I listen to these podcasts. Don't feel special about it or anything

Thx guys, good stuff

Phosferrax said:

@JustinXavier21 @JustinXavier21 @JustinXavier21

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How did I forget?!

I am scrub host

very good listen as always

hat spin unsafe on block? i'm in

Listening in the next couple of days, thanks for the tag Jay.

I'm very interested in the topics listed and will blast my opinions upon this thread like the loud armerican moron I am!

Didn't mention it in the podcast, but I think a good measuring post for design is Ermac's soul ball when comparing it to Hat Spin. Imagine if Ermac could just throw out f4~soul ball in footsies and not care if it gets blocked?

Phosferrax said:

Didn't mention it in the podcast, but I think a good measuring post for design is Ermac's soul ball when comparing it to Hat Spin. Imagine if Ermac could just throw out f4~soul ball in footsies and not care if it gets blocked?

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-3 is fine, he loses the hat and any defence option but block, his normals aren't quick enough to just throw out after either.

Also, it's not like he's opening people up with anything like overheads/lows/hard to blockables and since he's a pressure character he needs safety.

A F0xy Grampa said:

-3 is fine, he loses the hat and any defence option but block, his normals aren't quick enough to just throw out after either.

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Put it in line and compare it to all the other meterless combo extenders and it's not really fine.

Some examples:

Cassie Flip Kick
Ermac Soul Ball
Erron Black Pocket Sand
Kano Eye Laser
Sub Zero Ice Ball
Scorpion Spear

The only one I can think of that is safe is Marksman's Rifle Swing, but then it has a gap before it in most strings if I recall correctly.

Hat Spin doesn't really follow the 'rules' of the meterless combo extenders.

@TheGabStandard @PND_Mustard @Phosferrax
@JTB123

The "speed round" for determining the best player of each character was, as you put it, juicy. Beyond juicy. Juicy to nth degree.

Can u plz convert that into a thread that ppl can respond to? Each of your response lists could be contained in a spoiler so that ppl could provide responses and list their own views.

@UsedForGlue happy now?

First time listening to one of these, good stuff guys, very informative.

But damn, that shoutout though! Love you, @PND_Mustard

Goddamn, why don't you guys want to say Justin Xavier is the best Jacqui? Lol. Also interesting that you say Coach Steve for best Kano, have a look back at all the tournaments he's been in and the results of the other Kanos at those tournaments and you might find something quite shocking...
Side note: The Hish-Qu-Ten player at our local is the swaggiest Predator free, his conversions look so bloody cool #Kreygasm. If you haven't seen the vids of him playing I'd highly recommend watching them just for the aesthetic value.

Also never speak of those hilariously bad articles you posted the link to ever again lol. Necromancer overpowered my ass...

good stuff guys,. great listen. !!

Youphemism said:

Also never speak of those hilariously bad articles you posted the link to ever again lol. Necromancer overpowered my ass...

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I was very close to editing that section out lol

Phosferrax said:

Put it in line and compare it to all the other meterless combo extenders and it's not really fine.

Some examples:

Cassie Flip Kick
Ermac Soul Ball
Erron Black Pocket Sand
Kano Eye Laser
Sub Zero Ice Ball
Scorpion Spear

The only one I can think of that is safe is Marksman's Rifle Swing, but then it has a gap before it in most strings if I recall correctly.

Hat Spin doesn't really follow the 'rules' of the meterless combo extenders.

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I'm not sure if making hat spin more minus is the right answer. All of those characters besides Kano that you named, have 50/50s.

With 112124 and B321 there are different options to stagger. Deciding to poke out when he can stop at 1, 11, 11212, or with the other string, B3, or B321, is very problematic. What keeps Kung Lao sort of in check with the B321 string, is that his fastest normal is 8 frames, so I personally view that string as fair. You can armor or backdash through the hat spin, B3 is -3, and B321 is -5.

A couple of potential nerfs, that I don't think would hurt the character too bad, are nerfs to his 112124 string, and F2. Making F2 a high is probably a good idea. It'll still be very useful for punishing and pressuring, but Lao's will have to make better use of a slower mid in B3, and D4 to get in. Also, making either 11 or 11212 a bit more minus, may make this string not as powerful. I don't know. Just my thoughts.

I know people will chant for jumping 2 nerfs. I personally feel like this move is completely balanced, in most cases. I know, come at me bros. It's 10 frames, so in a lot of cases it'll lose air to airs. Sometimes i'd rather have one of the many 6 or 7 frames jump ins, that also have decent range. Maybe make it a little shorter? Anything severe would make the move really bad in comparison to a large amount of the jump ins in the game. I would personally swap for Shinnok's jump 1. I don't know how other Lao's feel, since jump back 2 atm is really strong, but a 6 frame one with pretty decent range, is definitely not a bad trade.

I don't think I could really accept a nerf that makes normal hatspin punishable. You're kind of killing the essence of the character. Maybe he could receive 50/50s and a vortex, like Ermac? Lol, but again, killing the essence of the character. I think he's meant to have the move, the way it is. Nerfing other things is the answer imo.

Good podcast btw.

There's so much I could talk about on this episode that I actually wish I was on it myself and can't be bothered to post a wall of text....

Some things will likely prop up again in the future though, so I'll leave a courtesy like for now.

@JTB123 Hunter AA's suck ass, average D2 and you're not AA'ing with scimitar unless you like wasting meter on whiffing and getting punished #ThreeNJPsinarow. Also fuck you Jax sucked couldn't combo until the latest patch #Metalarmsfinallyfixxed. And I'm out of ESL this week two top 4's and two top 32's! Consistency is the key boys #NotsaltyatallATALL.

Also my current best player for each character

Jason: UndeadReo
Kung Lao: A Undead Grampa
Jax: Mijdaednu
Sonya: Scarjim
Kenshi: Pig of the Jim
Kitana: Kitana Jim
Scorpion: JimTB123
Sub-Zero: Madjim
Mileena: TheJimStandard
Takeda: Ji9rms
Jacqui Briggs: Jim Xavier
Kung Jin: Jimmer
Tanya: Yomi MIJim
Predator: Forever Jim
Shinnok: PND Undead MustardJim
Kano: Coach Jim
Johnny Cage: Undead Eddie
Erron Black: Sonic Jim
Liu Kang: XarakamaJim
Ermac: Big Jim
Kotal Kahn: AluJim
Reptile: A Milky Jim
Ferra/Torr: UndeadHazard
D'Vorah: HoneyJim
Raiden: Undeadek
Quan Chi: PND KetchupJim
Goro: DecayingJim
Tremor: Yomi DJJim

Undeadjim said:

@JTB123 Hunter AA's suck ass, average D2 and you're not AA'ing with scimitar unless you like wasting meter on whiffing and getting punished. Also fuck you Jax sucked couldn't combo until the latest patch. And I'm out of ESL this week two top 4's and two top 32's! Consistency is the key boys.

Also my current best player for each character

Jason: UndeadReo
Kung Lao: A Undead Grampa
Jax: Mijdaednu
Sonya: Scarjim
Kenshi: Pig of the Jim
Kitana: Kitana Jim
Scorpion: JimTB123
Sub-Zero: Madjim
Mileena: TheJimStandard
Takeda: Ji9rms
Jacqui Briggs: Jim Xavier
Kung Jin: Jimmer
Predator: Forever Jim
Shinnok: PND Undead MustardJim
Kano: Coach Jim
Johnny Cage: Undead Eddie
Erron Black: Sonic Jim
Liu Kang: XarakamaJim
Ermac: Big Jim
Kotal Kahn: AluJim
Reptile: A Milky Jim
Ferra/Torr: UndeadHazard
D'Vorah: HoneyJim
Raiden: Undeadek
Quan Chi: PND KetchupJim
Goro: DecayingJim

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Lost my shit at milky Jim.
Seriously considering posting that thread about reprasentatives for each character.