Are Nrs Games The Scrubbiest Games (easiest to learn) in the Fgc?

Green Lantern Rz said:

Kung Lao:
- Chain fist is hard. Takes time to get used to doing it consistently.
- Connecting his 4-4 after hatspin is even harder cus its a 2 frame link.

Thunder God Raiden:
- LRC into 2-1-3 to extend the combo is hard, especially in the corner for some reason.
- Doing his electric fly after his 1-1-2-2(holding 2) is also hard cus you have to input it in a certain hit of the lightning.

Anyways, I don't find A-List Cage to be hard to execute at all. In fact the only thing hard about him is the knee dash cancel into forward 2 but still not that hard after a few weeks of practice.

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You know what, thats fair enough. I just think LK and Hellfire are on another level in comprison to the rest, but you are right, thats all not stuff you would describe as easy to get used to. Swarm Queen definitely belongs on that list however. Her low starter is a big part of the main reason to use her, and its hard af

Apologia X said:

I'm interested to hear everybody's thoughts about this. I've played many fighting games on a casual level and find Nrs games to be the easiest, and yes, the scrubbiest in all of the Fgc. It's one of the reasons why I'm attracted to Nrs games because my execution is probably one of the weakest parts of my game so why not play the least execution heavy game in the fgc.

Now, that's not to say anybody can pick up Nrs games and be a top player, but there's not really a execution barrier as with some other fighting games that come to mind. What separates top players from the rest in Nrs games in my opinion are reactions, spacing/footsies, and reads whereas games such as KOF, Tekken, and GG require more execution to be a top player.

I feel like the lack of execution may be one of the reasons that it will not be respected by others in the fgc and one of the reasons it won't surpass Capcom games as far as popularity in the Fgc.

What do you guys think? Do you agree or do you think Daigo would struggle doing run combos? Much love Tym.

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execution doesn't matter, mkx is scrubby for a whole entire different reason then execution. You can have a low execution barrier and be a difficult game to be successful in.

I GOT HANDS said:

You know what, thats fair enough. I just think LK and Hellfire are on another level in comprison to the rest, but you are right, thats all not stuff you would describe as easy to get used to. Swarm Queen definitely belongs on that list however. Her low starter is a big part of the main reason to use her, and its hard af

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If you say so but Idk a lot of about Swarm Queen so I can't really say much. Same goes for Marksman Erron Black.

Oh I forgot to mention Chain Fist or Fist of Fury into hatspin upon reaction is hard too. And then theres the Hat Trick Variation...

" KI also doesn't have "bnbs" and you're forced to constantly create new combos on the fly which should be taken into consideration."

This interests me greatly. I want to play KI.

slacked said:

The execution is fairly easy but the neutral/footsie game is like having a roster full of ibuki.

That's how I explain it to every SF player.

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Need to quantify that. SFIII is a heavily footsie oriented character. It's only the IV version that's a vortex character.

Braindead said:

@Apologia X why are you dodging the question?

What does "scrubby" mean?

You're asking if the game is the scrubbiest but a billion ppl have asked already what do you mean by "scrubby" and no answer. The thread is pointless until you say what you mean by "scrubby".

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There's only one, proper academic definition of scrubby and almost everyone in this thread is using the term wrong.

Peckapowa said:

execution doesn't matter, mkx is scrubby for a whole entire different reason then execution. You can have a low execution barrier and be a difficult game to be successful in.

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i mean you would know about scrubby low execution success huh mmh player


ayyy i got em @TopTierHarley

EntropicByDesign said:

" KI also doesn't have "bnbs" and you're forced to constantly create new combos on the fly which should be taken into consideration."

This interests me greatly. I want to play KI.

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KI doesn't put an emphasis on execution but that's not to say it doesn't exist at higher levels. You can be succesful without it as the neutral and mind games are more important and the combo system is just an extension of the neutral game. You have to think about a lot of things, and in that way it's "harder" to play than any other fg.

The entire game is on sale now for 30 bucks - 17 characters. If you buy it for console now you get the PC version free once it's released early next year and online is cross-platform fyi.

Shyyzmm said:

The things is, scrubbiness is relative to the game it's in. Which one sounds like it belongs in an nrs/sfiv/ki/etc? OH Low target combo into ex special that jails for another mixup? Safe OH teleport that takes half your life if it hits? Safe meterless vortex for half your life if you guess wrong? 50/50 divebomb otgs for half your life?

While it's true all games have something cheap or scrubby it's all relative to the game mechanics and other characters and are generally unique cases or "toptier". However, when it comes to nrs games 2/3 of the characters elevate the cheapness to such a level that it's almost seems normal and any character without unreactable oh lows, plus +14 launching ex specials/bottom tier, less cheap characters suffer yet still seem "good" or "viable" in nrs games. Sure, maybe in games were ex specials moves don't build meter, chip, launch for half you life while jailingly you on block for another mixup.

If you can't see the difference bewteen what's considered cheap in nrs games and more popular fgs comptitively and relative to the game they're in then idk what to tell you. There maybe scrubbiness in every game, but not all scrubbiness is equal.

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Uh yea because unblockables in SFIV weren't considered cheap at all. UMvC3 is considered one of the most ridiculous games of all time. 3 wrong guesses and you lose the entire match. It got to the point where they make tournaments 3 out of 5. What other game has had to do that?

But because it's Capcom it's ok. It's a double standard we've come to live with and we accept here. Sounds to me you're just a typical sheep in the fgc who just wants to talk shit on our games and not actually compare it to other fighting games objectively.

As I said, the fgc thinks NRS games are scrubby because got a bad rep from the past and a cry-baby community. Not because it's actually true.

Game can't be considered scrubby because the game can't complain that shit it cheap. Players on the other hand...

Slips said:

Uh yea because unblockables in SFIV weren't considered cheap at all. UMvC3 is considered one of the most ridiculous games of all time. 3 wrong guesses and you lose the entire match. It got to the point where they make tournaments 3 out of 5. What other game has had to do that?

But because it's Capcom it's ok. It's a double standard we've come to live with and we accept here. Sounds to me you're just a typical sheep in the fgc who just wants to talk shit on our games and not actually compare it to other fighting games objectively.

As I said, the fgc thinks NRS games are scrubby because got a bad rep from the past and a cry-baby community. Not because it's actually true.

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Nah, stop deflecting. Saying "b-but what about those games!" doesn't make your game any better. Nobody actually cares about nrs games in the majority of the fgc because it's known for shitty netcode, poor game design, and a toxic community. I don't know how you can watch a game of SFV with counter hit setups and throw baits, real anti-airs then look at mkx where counter hit setups are mash armor into 30% after negative frames and frametraps consist of jailing your opponent into 50/50s for close to half their life - then come with the conclusion of "What's the difference?" Give me a break.

Idk what's happening over there at Marvel but even with their touch of death combos and bad netcode it's still attracts more players than nrs games pull which speaks volumes

If you enjoy nrs games, that's fine. Good for you. When you're insecurity based on how the community feels toward your game leads you to say things like it's "all the same" well, get some perspective. I don't hate nrs games either, I'm just not delusional. You're the guy who thinks it's impossible for people to dislike games you like... otherwise they're sheep. Keep wondering why nrs community gets a bad rap though.

Apologia X said:

I'm interested to hear everybody's thoughts about this. I've played many fighting games on a casual level and find Nrs games to be the easiest, and yes, the scrubbiest in all of the Fgc. It's one of the reasons why I'm attracted to Nrs games because my execution is probably one of the weakest parts of my game so why not play the least execution heavy game in the fgc.

Now, that's not to say anybody can pick up Nrs games and be a top player, but there's not really a execution barrier as with some other fighting games that come to mind. What separates top players from the rest in Nrs games in my opinion are reactions, spacing/footsies, and reads whereas games such as KOF, Tekken, and GG require more execution to be a top player.

I feel like the lack of execution may be one of the reasons that it will not be respected by others in the fgc and one of the reasons it won't surpass Capcom games as far as popularity in the Fgc.

What do you guys think? Do you agree or do you think Daigo would struggle doing run combos? Much love Tym.

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That's amusing coming from you considering I bodied you in mk9, and even after I said ggs and complimented you, you kept sending me hatemail and even went so far as to spread lies that I take 1 win and back out. You are the biggest scrub I've played on this site.

Slips said:

This game is no scrubbier than any other. It has just as many stupid and exploitative cheap garbage that any other fighter has. I think NRS games just always have a stigma of their games being broken, simple or dumbed down because of the bad stretch of games during the MK 3D era. Plus their games on release typically have a lot of derpy stuff in them before they get patched out...but really that's no different than most games.

Nobody seemed to care in SFIV when Infiltration just air fireballed is way to timeouts. Or when shotos could tatsu out of the corner and run away the whole game. Or when Ultra's did 70% life. Or Seth's jumping fierce that took up 2/3's of the entire screen like an MvC3 move. Or how incredibly stupid and imbalanced Yun and Yang were when they came out. Or the Sentinal debacle when MvC3 released. Or Sadira having unbreakable combos in KI. Elphelt in Guilty Gear has an unblockable loop to this day. And the list goes on, but you get the idea.

It also doesn't help that this community cry's and throws tantrums more than any other. Most players here wanna blame NRS instead of exploring all the options on how to deal with cheap stuff. It's no wonder people think NRS games are scrubby when we have so many players who'd rather whine instead of learn.

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To be fair though, I've been keeping a close eye on the Capcom community, and there've been people complaining about things since the beginning of the SFV beta (a game that's not even finshed yet!). 'This is too slow, this is too weak, this is OP etc.'. The stigma that NRS players are the only ones to complain and won't adapt are just that -- a stigma.

In addition to that, a lot of complaints in MKX have been from people who simply wanted to see a better game with more varied gameplay. Imo the game has become much better for it. I can totally understand your point, and there's some truth to it, but It's not as black and white as everyone makes it out to be.

@Slips also keep in mind that SF4 players know that Capcom will generally keep supporting their flagship game and probably won't let something Kabal or Batgirl/MMH-level rock forever, whereas NRS community members know that if something isn't rooted out within a year's time, it might stigmatize their game forever. That inspires a completely different sense of urgency and makes people a little less eager to just "let it rock". Again, mainly out of genuine concern for the long-term well being of the game.

Not to discredit your point, as we all know a few players who refuse to dig deep into the meta and learn how to beat certain things. But there are many more people who are wary of being left with something that makes their game a laughingstock of the FGC with little hope of future adjustments.

16 Bit said:

MK9's counter poking mechanic was difficult enough few had mastered it. In fact not many even really understood the meta. The number of ppl who I played that mastered that was low.

Likewise not many were good at stuffing wakeups in injustice, something I spent a great deal of time working on. Like mk9 counter poking you get a sense many who even post here don't know what they're talking about.

These games all have their hidden nuances that create a skill gap. Always be skeptical of those saying games are simple, they're usually dudes who can't get out of pools, which is funny if they're right cause you'd think it'd be easy for them.

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like x infinity!! well said and i couldn't agree more LOL

Shyyzmm said:

Nah, stop deflecting. Saying "b-but what about those games!" doesn't make your game any better. Nobody actually cares about nrs games in the majority of the fgc because it's known for shitty netcode, poor game design, and a toxic community. I don't know how you can watch a game of SFV with counter hit setups and throw baits, real anti-airs then look at mkx where counter hit setups are mash armor into 30% after negative frames and frametraps consist of jailing your opponent into 50/50s for close to half their life - then come with the conclusion of "What's the difference?" Give me a break.

Idk what's happening over there at Marvel but even with their touch of death combos and bad netcode it's still attracts more players than nrs games pull which speaks volumes

If you enjoy nrs games, that's fine. Good for you. When you're insecurity based on how the community feels toward your game leads you to say things like it's "all the same" well, get some perspective. I don't hate nrs games either, I'm just not delusional. You're the guy who thinks it's impossible for people to dislike games you like... otherwise they're sheep. Keep wondering why nrs community gets a bad rap though.

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Lol like SFIV doesn't have scenarios where people don't mash out of frame traps. C'mon man. Everything you just said; counter hit setups, throw baits and real anti-airs, are in MKX just as much as they are in any other game. You mock me but then can't even come up with a actual example of what makes SFIV that much better. "What's the difference?" is the question you need to be asking yourself, not me.

I'll give you the shitty netcode and toxic community, but the game design is fine.

I have no problem with people disliking the games I like as long as they are for legitimate reasons.

slips and 16bit 10/0ing this thread

1man3letters said:

slips and 16bit 10/0ing this thread

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Not really... Honestly the MVP goes to Shyyzmm for keeping it real. He is the hero we deserve

One thing I like about mkx is that a lot of the cheapness ("scrubbiness" I guess?) is largely character based, and very little core mechanics appear to enhance certain characters over most. For example, Injustice's design of having slow walks with un-cancellable dashes lead to certain characters like aquaman, Martian, and zod to absolutely dominate characters just based on that fact. Mk9 pokes by design made certain character pressure impossible to not take a huge risk with horrendous reward.

Not to say mkx is free of this completely: I definitely think meter'd moves building meter on block is lame design left over from igau, and certain characters abuse this way better. Every character having an armored move is both a blessing and a curse. Block breaker could probably stand to be better. But, overall, I would say more often than not, a character is top tier because of their tools, not just how the system works.

Other games have this flaw too; sfiv focus attack is tremendous for many characters, but it's not created equal. Characters like Seth, Evil Ryu, and Rolento can use it both offensively and defensively, while many can barely use it defensively. In KI, a lot of characters can take advantage of using a fast invincible uppercut while spinning the wheel and having the chance to get out of a combo. And the list goes on.

Mkx is not perfect (nothing is), but I do like that the core isn't holding back the cast, just their own tools, which is far easier to tweak and mold. Even some of the lame system stuff they took out (option selects, mashing poke out of blockstun, etc.)

CrimsonShadow said:

To be fair though, I've been keeping a close eye on the Capcom community, and there've been people complaining about things since the beginning of the SFV beta (a game that's not even finshed yet!). 'This is too slow, this is too weak, this is OP etc.'. The stigma that NRS players are the only ones to complain and won't adapt are just that -- a stigma.

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But that's from a game in beta though, where this kind of feedback is supposed to be sent back to Capcom.

I GOT HANDS said:

I saw something on a FGC reddit a couple of months ago after EVO, asking how SonicFox is having such an amazing streak. The number one up voted comment was "because he chooses to play a game with zero competition" with a bunch of people mocking him taking the "easy" option for fighting game afterwards. That to me just seems salty, uninformed, typical l33t gamers assuming their game has all the depth and nothing else can hold a candle to it. (We aren't innocent of this either, I've seen people on here claiming MKX has more strategy depth than SC2 or Dota, like legitimate strategy games - lol). But regardless, if this was the case, why aren't any of these amazing players jumping in to snatch up that EZ prize money? It's not like there is zero SF players in this game, they aren't dominating it... Sonic earned his victories hard and is an amazing talented gamer. I really hope he picks up SFV and wipes the sneer of some of these people's face.

That being said, we definitely have the rep as the scrubbiest community, and honestly the way this community behaves as a whole I can't say it's fully undeserved - haven't seen some of the shit I see supported on here anywhere else in competitive gaming tbqh lol.

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I agree.

The funny thing is that early one he was placing top in tekken and soul calibur as well over on east coast tournaments. Lets not forget his consistent placings in UNIEL which is also a pretty damn execution heavy game to play.

I always blame the netkode for my online losses. Am I also a scrub?

Slips said:

Uh yea because unblockables in SFIV weren't considered cheap at all. UMvC3 is considered one of the most ridiculous games of all time. 3 wrong guesses and you lose the entire match. It got to the point where they make tournaments 3 out of 5. What other game has had to do that?

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Injustice??!!!

CrimsonShadow said:

To be fair though, I've been keeping a close eye on the Capcom community, and there've been people complaining about things since the beginning of the SFV beta (a game that's not even finshed yet!). 'This is too slow, this is too weak, this is OP etc.'. The stigma that NRS players are the only ones to complain and won't adapt are just that -- a stigma.

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But that's the point of a beta, to test things and see if ppl like it or not. At least they get a beta I wish NRS would do that and we wouldn't have 100 patches

Are players that call games scrubby the scrubbiest at the games they call scrubby?

Yes.

Define 'Scrubby'.
It's a very subjective term to a lot of people. One person's scrubby is different to another persons.

I personally think that people who cry 'This game is too easy' 'Where is the difficulty in NRS games' Etc. Are the same people that don't appreciate the values in which make games like MK unique, in their own little way. Sure, MK has never been a footsie game, but it's not 'Scrubby' .Just because you dont have to input DF 69 times then do a handstand, masturbate for exactly 12 seconds before reciting a verse from the bible to make every input come out, does not mean that the game isn't skillful in it's own 'NRS' way.

xZoro said:

Define 'Scrubby'.
It's a very subjective term to a lot of people. One person's scrubby is different to another persons.

I personally think that people who cry 'This game is too easy' 'Where is the difficulty in NRS games' Etc. Are the same people that don't appreciate the values in which make games like MK unique, in their own little way. Sure, MK has never been a footsie game, but it's not 'Scrubby' .Just because you dont have to input DF 69 times then do a handstand, masturbate for exactly 12 seconds before reciting a verse from the bible to make every input come out, does not mean that the game isn't skillful in it's own 'NRS' way.

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What game is this? I wanna play that!