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General/Other - Raiden God of thunder has to stop falling to nerf abyss!!

BigMilk

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
@buyacushun better pokes would at least allow us to play a better neutral, force some mistakes and have some legitimate options in different situations. Raiden can barely even poke and walk away to bait a button press
 
Vaiist

Vaiist

Noob
buyacushun said:
What do you mean take a step back and trap?

And i shouldn't say trap blows because it makes it seem useless but it definitely could be a lot better. I just get salty when I play as MoS.

IDK where manassass is or why you even think I'd be able to go lol.
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Haha the Manassass thing was for Wetdoba. I misread who I was replying to, sorry :confused:

As for the traps, I just mean that if I throw out the second orb behind somebody and they are going to sit there and low poke, I'll often just take that time to get out of their range and throw and another orb out behind me so that I already have another trap in the works.
 
Wetdoba

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Vaiist said:
I'm aware it can immediately be low profiled, but I don't find this very difficult to adapt to. Once they realize they can do it, you can pretty much bet they're going to go for it every time. I'm perfectly content to take a step back, throw out a trap, and then repeat the process. If nothing else I'm building meter while we see whose more patient. If that doesn't work he still has other options as well.

Anyways, you going to be in Manassass for any of the Wednesday meetups soon?
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I came by Hard Times this week around 7 and there were only like 3 smashers there :/
 
Vaiist

Vaiist

Noob
Wetdoba said:
I came by Hard Times this week around 7 and there were only like 3 smashers there :/
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I haven't been making it out regularly lately but I'll try to be there next week. Maybe we could play online sometime too. I'd love to get some experience with people who play Raiden for real. Every time I get faced with an MoS player online it feels like they're just trying it out and don't know what they're doing yet, so I'd love to play with some legit Raiden's and compare styles.

I barely play TG unless I feel like I have to, his game plan is just a little boring for my taste. The past month or so has pretty much been completely devoted to Displacer though so I'm a little all over the place with him.

The Hard Times scene has actually been pretty strong lately, so I wonder if people were just staying home because of the weather.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Vaiist said:
Haha the Manassass thing was for Wetdoba. I misread who I was replying to, sorry :confused:

As for the traps, I just mean that if I throw out the second orb behind somebody and they are going to sit there and low poke, I'll often just take that time to get out of their range and throw and another orb out behind me so that I already have another trap in the works.
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What are you cancelling out of? I'm recording f2,2+4 and I can't move.
 
Wetdoba

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Vaiist said:
I haven't been making it out regularly lately but I'll try to be there next week. Maybe we could play online sometime too. I'd love to get some experience with people who play Raiden for real. Every time I get faced with an MoS player online it feels like they're just trying it out and don't know what they're doing yet, so I'd love to play with some legit Raiden's and compare styles.

I barely play TG unless I feel like I have to, his game plan is just a little boring for my taste. The past month or so has pretty much been completely devoted to Displacer though so I'm a little all over the place with him.

The Hard Times scene has actually been pretty strong lately, so I wonder if people were just staying home because of the weather.
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Im on XBL if you have that Ill definitely play online. Ive been MIA from hard times lately because I still have to bum peoples sticks there since Ive been waiting for a legit converter to use with my XB1 stick and all the missed inputs while using other peoples set ups werent helping as I was trying to learn Ferra Torr. Now that Im much more comfortable with the game in general I dont think using someone elses would throw me off that much anymore. That being said there was still one one to borrow a stick from this week so I just bailed, Ill definitely will be there next week though
 
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Vaiist

Vaiist

Noob
buyacushun said:
What are you cancelling out of? I'm recording f2,2+4 and I can't move.
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Anything really, but usally f2(2+4) because of the range. Maybe I'm wrong and even the people I play who know the matchup well don't know it well enough, but the only thing I'm ever worried about in that situation is armor. Even if you were to just jump back and keep throwing traps around, at the very least you're gaining meter and wearing down their patience.

Let's just play sometime. Like I mentioned earlier, I've never really played another MoS who knows the character that well.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Vaiist said:
Anything really, but usally f2(2+4) because of the range. Maybe I'm wrong and even the people I play who know the matchup well don't know it well enough, but the only thing I'm ever worried about in that situation is armor. Even if you were to just jump back and keep throwing traps around, at the very least you're gaining meter and wearing down their patience.

Let's just play sometime. Like I mentioned earlier, I've never really played another MoS who knows the character that well.
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Ah, Well just add me and we'll play whenever.
 
Enexemander

Enexemander

A Hitbox Pirate - YARRR -
buyacushun said:
What do you mean take a step back and trap?

And i shouldn't say trap blows because it makes it seem useless but it definitely could be a lot better. I just get salty when I play as MoS.

IDK where manassass is or why you even think I'd be able to go lol.
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I think he means CFAS Wednesday Night Strikes in Manassas, Virginia.
 
Benzo

Benzo

Vic Stone
Asodimazze said:
I don't think he needs any kind of buff, he is still a good character with 2 (maybe 3) great variations; you still have the option to make the b2 safe and renounce to the big combo, or risk a punish and go for big damage...this is how it should always have been.

On top of my mind, Raiden still has:

- Best wall carry in the game
- Some of the best anti airs
- 6 frame punish
- Good damage (of course his damage is very low compared to Quan Chi, but no one should do as much damage as him)
- Good wake up options
- Good 50/50

Not top 5 anymore, but very very viable imho
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Can you explain? I'm seriously considering picking him up but I'm super noob status.
 
Vaiist

Vaiist

Noob
Benzo said:
Can you explain? I'm seriously considering picking him up but I'm super noob status.
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His b2 overhead is 2 hits. If it's blocked you're left very vulnerable. However, if you cancel the first hit into a shocker you're safe if it's blocked. Until the most recent patch, you could time the inputs in such a way that you would always get the more favorable result, but that is no longer the case. The point he's making is that Raiden still has the safe overhead option, it just doesn't lead to a combo or big damage.

If that wasn't the part you were asking about then please clarify.
 
Benzo

Benzo

Vic Stone
Vaiist said:
His b2 overhead is 2 hits. If it's blocked you're left very vulnerable. However, if you cancel the first hit into a shocker you're safe if it's blocked. Until the most recent patch, you could time the inputs in such a way that you would always get the more favorable result, but that is no longer the case. The point he's making is that Raiden still has the safe overhead option, it just doesn't lead to a combo or big damage.

If that wasn't the part you were asking about then please clarify.
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What about his good AA and everything else you said was good. What variation are we talking about?
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Benzo said:
What about his good AA and everything else you said was good. What variation are we talking about?
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Base raiden is a very good character. All those bullet points apply to raiden. Raiden's variations are like cassie's where you pick the a flavor of the character instead of whole new tools per variation.

TG has chip, pressure and run cancels.

Displacer has teleports which lead to more maneuverability and a bit different pressure.

Master of Storns is a setup, space controlling, trap character. This one I feel still needs plenty of tweaks to even work right. But I still find it fun so I bust it out here and there, cause like I said, base raiden is a very good character.
 
Shawnzzy

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
I've played Raiden since launch and to me it seems clear that he has much harder time at high level play now than in vanilla. Since we cannot control what NRS does on a level beyond requesting changes I propose that we take a critical look at our lightning buddy and build the resources for Raiden renaissance.

I say we make a living guide similar to the swarm queen guide for D'Vorah. Let's look at each of his normals, present the hard data (frames and damage), and discuss the pros and cons of each move. We can see a clear discussion on the viability of F4 in this thread. I'd like to see hard evidence of people having success with "controversial moves". By finding what is situational and what isn't viable we can start to have a discussion about where we can take this character. I imagine we can do this with all normals, all combos, and all variations. Regardless of the emergence of new tech or a new optimal Raiden strategy, we will have our truth about the character present for NRS to see, hopefully putting him in favor for the next time the elder gods change things on a whim.

I know everyone is probably thinking who the fuck will take the time to do that, and true it will take a lot of time. But I am willing to start the post and present a google doc/something like that, so we can start to build the ultimate resource for the Raiden community.

Who's down to construct the Jinsei Chamber? Our god needs our help.
 
JustinXavier21

JustinXavier21

The rose that grew from concrete
SonicNinja3532 said:
I understand why I can't have the same weight behind my arguments, unfortunately, I can't go to any tournaments as there aren't any in Birmingham, England. Anyways, I never said that Liu Kang could stuff armor better, but he is the on person that can come close to stuffing armor as good as Raiden. Raiden is the best at stuffing armor. It seems I may have phrased it wrong, my apologies.
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@SonicNinja3532 Um...lol welcome to the Birmingham scene...

http://testyourmight.com/events/electronic-dojo-presents-white-lotus-society.2255/
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
I'd say that if any big changes are out of question (they probably are), then I'd take getting hit invulnerability on TP's startup after 6th frame and lose considerable number of frames on orb recovery (maybe a bit longer capture, I don't know).
Maybe slightly faster X-ray so that it is at least sometimes useful and comboable into from a bit more things. Yeah, I know it does nothing to make character better, but why don't give it a bit more edge cases where it may work?

I don't know what to do with TG though.
 
Ovelha-BR

Ovelha-BR

Noob
I'm Creating a account in TYM for just reply the arguments that i saw in this topic.
Like one of the guys up said:(in TG) 3 very good reversals; scary corner game (he still have a scary corner game, but now the oponent have option to get out...fair doesn't?), decent damage, low / high game and A BAD ASS LOOK IN MKX!( OK...)
Raiden still a very good character, and really, ( I'm a raiden player to, who following Nivek and dizzy gameplays / videos / stuff) and i don't see reason for complain too much.
I think, in comparison with other characters who are broken, all right....but complaining with arguments like " well, i lost option select, i want my F1 MID back", "THE OPONENT COULD DO A DELAYED WAKE UP!"...ow dudes come on. Who stay in the corner should be feel fear, don't you?
 
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