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General/Other - Raiden God of thunder has to stop falling to nerf abyss!!

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
When I say good online, I don't mean a good ratio on ranked matches or player matches, i mean a good player is a good player. Regardless if they're offline or online. The arguments pointless cause I disagree with your first comment i quoted. This random player isn't better then nivek or dizzy.
How do you know he's not. Not saying he is(and I never did), but how do you know?
 

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
Remember when this thread was discussing Raiden as a character? Talking about his problems and possible reasonable solutions? . . . Good times man, good times.


F1 mid dreams
MoS viability hopes
hahaha I just saw this lol You're right man, I won't say another word on that other topic. Let's get back into topic. So, see Nivek's last post? Do you agree with that or are you fixated on his F1 becoming a mid?
 

Mod

Noob
Im not saying they should do this, but it would be cool if they gave Raiden some new moves like a command grab lol. But for the most part I would be fine with them giving Raiden a consistant mid in Thunder God and a slight damage boost to help mid screen damage. In MOS make the recovery less on orb summon.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
hahaha I just saw this lol You're right man, I won't say another word on that other topic. Let's get back into topic. So, see Nivek's last post? Do you agree with that or are you fixated on his F1 becoming a mid?
I saw it and I gave my thoughts on it in a previous post. I'd take some of that AND f1 being mid. The only thing close to broken on it was TG doing f12. Other fixes to that (and MoS/Disp string if needed) so it could've stayed a mid. It didn't do everything back then and it wouldn't do everything now. No mixup. Always ends negative. Range is ok for it being 6f. Would give good frame traps and probably make an opponent pause more. That's all I'm gonna say on that, unless someone brings up a new view on it. Don't want to make this thread just me talking about f1 being a mid.

MoS needs a slew of changes and I doubt I'll ever see them. NRS doesn't know how to make a spacing trap character. Not one viable orb cancel on block. Barely anything good on knockdown. And the trap itself sucks.

TG could probably get away with more damage on the variation specific strings.

I don't play Displacer at all so I don't know what to do with that. Seems fine now though.
 

Cerebru

Noob
KL does have a -7 punisher, it's one of the best! EX spin!

Just wanted to agree that making f1 a 9f mid would most likely be a buff because he could play footsies with it then, and Raiden could still have a fast punish with 11 which is a 7f normal starter.
Im saying I rather have it the other way around. 11 being a mid is just better. 9f is two slow with the rest of his arsenal if he loses the six frame punish.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
DUDE NO WAY RAIDEN IS 80/100 HE WENT FROM 100/100 TO 80/100


:DOGE fool
Those are all fixes rather than buffs, I still think Raiden's a good character and the overreacting is real in this thread. There's a big difference between asking for moves to not whiff and proper scaling compared to asking for a 6 frame mid, a safe 50/50 game, and calling his wakeups shit( all of which you did).
 
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Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
I saw it and I gave my thoughts on it in a previous post. I'd take some of that AND f1 being mid. The only thing close to broken on it was TG doing f12. Other fixes to that (and MoS/Disp string if needed) so it could've stayed a mid. It didn't do everything back then and it wouldn't do everything now. No mixup. Always ends negative. Range is ok for it being 6f. Would give good frame traps and probably make an opponent pause more. That's all I'm gonna say on that, unless someone brings up a new view on it. Don't want to make this thread just me talking about f1 being a mid.

MoS needs a slew of changes and I doubt I'll ever see them. NRS doesn't know how to make a spacing trap character. Not one viable orb cancel on block. Barely anything good on knockdown. And the trap itself sucks.

TG could probably get away with more damage on the variation specific strings.

I don't play Displacer at all so I don't know what to do with that. Seems fine now though.
I mean, all that talk about f1 being a mid pertains to TG only, or so have I meant it.

I like how Displacer is looking right now but I would still like some changes on some stuff like that EX fly I think it's called, the superman looking move
 

CJKRattlehead

Two men enter, one man leaves!
A lot of complaining about some of the best characters in the game lately, pick up ferra/torr or kenshi and that'll put things in perspective.
 

Vaiist

Noob
MoS needs a slew of changes and I doubt I'll ever see them. NRS doesn't know how to make a spacing trap character. Not one viable orb cancel on block. Barely anything good on knockdown. And the trap itself sucks.
I think you and I are similar in that we are very drawn to MoS, but recognize many faults with it. However, I'm a little confused when you say "Not one viable orb cancel on block." What do you mean by that?
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
@buyacushun you actually aren't alone. I thought f1 should stay mid. I just stopped preaching that early on because of the community crying. Most people never realized that the real issue was f12 and the respect it received on block. It could've simply been made more negative to fix the issue. The community never realized that we didn't overused it because it was brain dead, we overused it because, it was our only real option lol. And now that we are left with nothing we just get called downplayers but I think making his pokes better would fix him. At least he could be played safely and smart. Better d4, fix b1 and safer pokes and he can compete again (in neutral). I won't get into variation specific changes but its obvious MoS needs them.
 
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buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Hmm. I guess I always cancel an orb from a blockstring after the first one is already in place, in which place your pressure continues.
If you're second orb is the "towards" one then your opponent has no reason to respect anything you do. Backdash, d3, and I think some people can even touch you and immediately cancel into armor to ignore the trap. Either way, someone who knows the MU beats you every time you try to use MoS's stuff on block.

I used to play a scorpion constantly. First few matches were ok. Then I explained how the traps worked and within seconds he's beating everything I do because the traps just suck.

@buyacushun you actually aren't alone. I thought f1 should stay mid. I just stopped preaching that early on because of the community crying. Most people never realized that the real issue was f12 and the respect it received on block. It could've simply been made more negative to fix the issue. The community never realized that we didn't overused it because it was brain dead, we overused it because, it was our only real option lol. And now that we are left with nothing we just get called downplayers but I think making his pokes better would fix him. At least he could be played safely and smart. Better d4, fix b1 and safer pokes and he can compete again (in neutral). I won't get into variation specific changes but its obvious MoS needs them.
B1 fix and better pokes would be great. But it sucks that if I want to do anything scary I have get my opponent to mess up, get a knockdown, and make em guess. The bad part isn't the guess, and I'm perfectly fine with the risk/reward. But the whole game before I get the knockdown is a struggle and it's even worse using MoS. Everything Raiden does is negative so I just randomly pick between f2 and f4 in neutral.

Never stop the f1 mid train.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
If F1 were mid there would be zero reason to ever fix B1 because it would never be used and neither would D1 becauee F1 eould be better in everyway and then any old shmuck could pick Raiden up and F12 their heart away. Here is my final thoughts on Raiden as of now, anything more than this IMO is just unneccessary buffing for the sake of making him easier.

Fixes:
- B1 vertical reach fixed to not whiff, doesnt need more horizontal reach IMO
- F2 fix same as B1
- D1 or D3 should be plus enough on hit to jail into S2
- Fix the second hit of EX DB3 to not whiff if the first hit connects on the way up

Buffs:

-Less recovery on MoS orbs


After that the character wouldnt need anything. Just tone down a handful of variations at the top and buff the few remainimg at the bottom and this game will be incredibly balanced with just about everyone around A tier. Then let the game sit and develope for a long time and try not to ruin the balance with the new dlc characters
 
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Vaiist

Noob
If you're second orb is the "towards" one then your opponent has no reason to respect anything you do. Backdash, d3, and I think some people can even touch you and immediately cancel into armor to ignore the trap. Either way, someone who knows the MU beats you every time you try to use MoS's stuff on block.
.
Weird, I've played thousands of matches with MoS and I've never felt this is an issue. If they back dash I usually just set up another trap.

@buyacushun
@BigMilk

You two down for a set sometime? I'd like to see how other people play MoS and/or counter what I do.
 

Cerebru

Noob
@buyacushun you actually aren't alone. I thought f1 should stay mid. I just stopped preaching that early on because of the community crying. Most people never realized that the real issue was f12 and the respect it received on block. It could've simply been made more negative to fix the issue. The community never realized that we didn't overused it because it was brain dead, we overused it because, it was our only real option lol. And now that we are left with nothing we just get called downplayers but I think making his pokes better would fix him. At least he could be played safely and smart. Better d4, fix b1 and safer pokes and he can compete again (in neutral). I won't get into variation specific changes but its obvious MoS needs them.
Tell em... it still is kinda, but it has no reason to be nerfed now because you can low profile the first hit. Now, Displacer need a damage boost lol. is this how you get those changes?
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
If F1 were mid there would be zero reason to ever fix B1 because it would never be used and neither would D1 becauee F1 eould be better in everyway and then any old shmuck could pick Raiden up and F12 their heart away. Here is my final thoughts on Raiden as of now, anything more than this IMO is just unneccessary buffing for the sake of making him easier.

Fixes:
- B1 vertical reach fixed to not whiff, doesnt need more horizontal reach IMO
- F2 fix same as B1
- D1 or D3 should be plus enough on hit to jail into S2
- Fix the second hit of EX DB3 to not whiff if the first hit connects on the way up

Buffs:

-Less recovery on MoS orbs


After that the character wouldnt need anything. Just tone down a handful of variations at the top and buff the few remainimg at the bottom and this game will be incredibly balanced with just about everyone around A tier. Then let the game sit and develope for a long time and try not to ruin the balance with the new dlc characters
F1 being mid would be very good, but how would any Raiden just f12 their heart away? A no mixup, negative string. That's like saying anyone can pick up cassie and b12 their way or Kung Lao b312 or Sub zero clone. If you don't like the idea of f1 mid, fine. But stop trying to paint this braindead picture.

B1 being regulated to a combo ender is not bad in any way. Plenty cases of strings being openers and some being enders. F1 wouldn't be some end all button.

Weird, I've played thousands of matches with MoS and I've never felt this is an issue. If they back dash I usually just set up another trap.

@buyacushun
@BigMilk

You two down for a set sometime? I'd like to see how other people play MoS and/or counter what I do.
I'm on PS4 and PC. Name's under avatar. I don't have plus yet but will in about a week or so. FYI, your opponent doesn't have to backdash, they could d3 and block which would render everything you did useless and just put the both of you back in neutral but with you taking pokes all the time.

Fun fact: I did F2,1+2xxDF4 on Kotal and he can neutral duck to avoid the trap completely. Trap blows.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Weird, I've played thousands of matches with MoS and I've never felt this is an issue. If they back dash I usually just set up another trap.

@buyacushun
@BigMilk

You two down for a set sometime? I'd like to see how other people play MoS and/or counter what I do.
My tag is ll3igllVllilk on psn. I'm down to play sometimes.
 
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BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Tell em... it still is kinda, but it has no reason to be nerfed now because you can low profile the first hit. Now, Displacer need a damage boost lol. is this how you get those changes?
I think if displacer meterless f12b2 x3 combo worked as it used to then there is no need for damage buff. Don't understand your question about the changes?
 

Vaiist

Noob
FYI, your opponent doesn't have to backdash, they could d3 and block which would render everything you did useless and just put the both of you back in neutral but with you taking pokes all the time.

Fun fact: I did F2,1+2xxDF4 on Kotal and he can neutral duck to avoid the trap completely. Trap blows.
I'm aware it can immediately be low profiled, but I don't find this very difficult to adapt to. Once they realize they can do it, you can pretty much bet they're going to go for it every time. I'm perfectly content to take a step back, throw out a trap, and then repeat the process. If nothing else I'm building meter while we see whose more patient. If that doesn't work he still has other options as well.

Anyways, you going to be in Manassass for any of the Wednesday meetups soon?
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
I'm aware it can immediately be low profiled, but I don't find this very difficult to adapt to. Once they realize they can do it, you can pretty much bet they're going to go for it every time. I'm perfectly content to take a step back, throw out a trap, and then repeat the process. If nothing else I'm building meter while we see whose more patient. If that doesn't work he still has other options as well.

Anyways, you going to be in Manassass for any of the Wednesday meetups soon?
What do you mean take a step back and trap?

And i shouldn't say trap blows because it makes it seem useless but it definitely could be a lot better. I just get salty when I play as MoS.

IDK where manassass is or why you even think I'd be able to go lol.