What's new

Match-Up Discussion - Sun God Grandmaster...WTF

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
All this talk made me remember the tech where you could run up on a clone, and then block right as you touched it to make it go away. Does that still exist? Sun/Blood God's might have to learn that shit if they want to get in on a GMSZ.
 

Mr Aquaman

Armored Launcher
Administrator
Premium Supporter
If I'm not mistaking kotal Kahn can jump over sub zero ice clone with a well placed jump in punch.

So I'm my opinion his Match up with sub zero is not that bad.

People just need to level up.
Negative, sub players just need to see kotal jump, then duck, now kotal can no longer hit sub's hitbox, thus falling right into the clone before reaching him, it's pretty easy
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
If I'm not mistaking kotal Kahn can jump over sub zero ice clone with a well placed jump in punch.

So I'm my opinion his Match up with sub zero is not that bad.

People just need to level up.
Oh kotal can jump over sub zeros iceclone? And hit them with a well placed jump in punch? Nice, that sub zero player must have no freaking clue about the matchup then. The only one or two that needs to level up is you and that sub zero player.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
If you have to play the MU, to prove that it can be done or because you're drunk and money matching, then it's as an earlier poster said: Do some damage, and then stay away, healing, ducking/absorbing ice balls, and jumping/absorbing thrown clones. It's boring as hell, but the timer will eventually give you the win, either by running out or forcing the GM to come to you. Of course, if you're drunk, you probably won't have the patience required for this tactic.
 

mkl

Poopbutt.
If I'm not mistaking kotal Kahn can jump over sub zero ice clone with a well placed jump in punch.

So I'm my opinion his Match up with sub zero is not that bad.

People just need to level up.
Have fun with him backdashing the jump in and falling into the clone.

How are Kotal's pokes as far as reaching through Clone?
Nothing reliable. d4 and b1 are the ones that comes close to being somewhat reliable but he has to be in the clone, which limits its practicality. But if you're in WG you can just *Any* Sword through that shit.
 

Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
It's been mentioned a few times but I like to parry all of his projectiles and choose a good moment to put the sun ray on myself. I'll also pick moments to do the sun buff to get me grab to level 3. Building meter from parry, building the grab, and replenishing health usually forces the sub player to run in. From full screen just duck and be ready to react to run in slide, run in b2, or run in jump, etc (which I know is a lot easier said then done). Also, kk has one of the best punishes for subs b2 in his b122 string so don't let him get away with b2. It's definitely in favor of sub, but I don't think it's hopeless.
 

Kotal_Wannabe

AKA AndyPandy
Have fun with him backdashing the jump in and falling into the clone.



Nothing reliable. d4 and b1 are the ones that comes close to being somewhat reliable but he has to be in the clone, which limits its practicality. But if you're in WG you can just *Any* Sword through that shit.
Wargod is the better matchup, but you can't any sword through unless you ex it. If you don't have bar to spend, at close range you can use db2 or df2 and at distance you can use db1. It's pretty situational though, and using either one at the wrong distance will get you frozen.
 
Last edited:

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
Every time I glance over a thread like this it never ceases to amaze me how much people can complain about a matchup... AND about Sub Zero.
I really need to start a thread about GM SZ vs Swarm Queen D'vorah or any other character variation that shits on the klone(there's plenty to choose from) JUST to keep up with the times.

People need to start taking responsibility for the variations they chose in a match, if I CHOSE to play GM SZ vs SQ D'Vorah(clear 7-3) and I lost, I'm not gonna go around telling people that I lost because the matchup is bad, I lost cuz I made the wrong choice.
Bad matchups will always exist and having a variation system to let you negate them the way MKX does is a gift from the damn Elder Gods.

Imagine if Sun God and GM where the only variations available... how hard would people moan then, I wonder???
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
There are not plenty to choose from. Subzero gets complained on for proper reasons.
 

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
There are not plenty to choose from. Subzero gets complained on for proper reasons.
facepalm... do you even know what you're talking about ?
Any character with disjointed hitboxes can easily punish the klone or at the very least make it go away AND then we have characters that have projectiles or specials that don't collide with the klone.
Let's tally up the character variations:

Ferra/Torr Vicious , D'vorah Swarm Queen, Kenshi Balanced , Kotal Khan War God, Kung Jin Bojutsu, Johnny Cage Stunt Double, Ermac Mystic, Predator Hunter, Quan Chi Sorcerer, Raiden Thunder God, Scorpion Ninjutsu, Shinnok impostor, Takeda Shirai Ryu, Tanya Dragon Naginata, Tremor Aftershock.

That's just the ones I can think off AND some characters EVEN HAVE 2 or 3 variations that deal with the klone very well.

And your proper reasons are, well it's ...
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Ferra/Torr Vicious , D'vorah Swarm Queen, Kenshi Balanced , Kotal Khan War God, Kung Jin Bojutsu, Johnny Cage Stunt Double, Ermac Mystic, Predator Hunter, Quan Chi Sorcerer, Raiden Thunder God, Scorpion Ninjutsu, Shinnok impostor, Takeda Shirai Ryu, Tanya Dragon Naginata, Tremor Aftershock.
So these are actually all good matchups vs GM you say?
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I use my bar to keep an EX Sunray in play, hopefully on Sub Zero. Its a tough matchup, but you only need two touches to win - as long as you get a Sun Ray on him - so be patient. If he's able to chip you out without you getting those two touches, so be it. Remember, you can get in the 40's without bar with Sun God - so although his defenses are tough, you don't need to destroy them. You just need to get through them twice and he needs to keep up his attack and defense to perfection to avoid your touch. You'll be able to get the other 18-20 damage by actively chasing him with EX Sunrays - and, even more importantly, forces GM to keep moving or you will get much more. Focus on getting the first touch, then run up and pressure to make getting the second one easier.

So, the matchup is tough - but its not nearly as bad as some here have made it out to be.

In addition, War God beats Grandmaster outright.
 
Last edited:

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
So these are actually all good matchups vs GM you say?
The point of my post was NOT to name all the matchups that GM struggles with... but to show you that there are PLENTY of characters in the roster that can deal with the klone just fine and that you spouting out stupid shit like this
There are not plenty to choose from. Subzero gets complained on for proper reasons.
Isn't the lack of options against the klone why you're all here moaning like you're on a period.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
The point of my post was NOT to name all the matchups that GM struggles with... but to show you that there are PLENTY of characters in the roster that can deal with the klone just fine and that you spouting out stupid shit like this


Isn't the lack of options against the klone why you're all here moaning like you're on a period.
I use my bar to keep an EX Sunray in play, hopefully on Sub Zero. Its a tough matchup, but you only need two touches to win - as long as you get a Sun Ray on him - so be patient. If he's able to chip you out without you getting those two touches, so be it. Remember, you can get in the 40's without bar with Sun God - so although his defenses are tough, you don't need to destroy them. You just need to get through them twice and he needs to keep up his attack and defense to perfection to avoid your touch. You'll be able to get the other 18-20 damage by actively chasing him with EX Sunrays - and, even more importantly, forces GM to keep moving or you will get much more. Focus on getting the first touch, then run up and pressure to make getting the second one easier.

So, the matchup is tough - but its not nearly as bad as some here have made it out to be.

In addition, War God beats Grandmaster outright.
Basically everything you posted is wrong.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I hate GM Sub. Even though I play Cryo with the intention of transferring to GM once I've leveled up.

That said, I do not think GM is broken or anything of the sort. I feel like he is a solid character with defined strengths and weaknesses. He's definitely strong. But that's it.

The issue arises in his ability to automatically force most characters to play his game. Almost every fighting game I've played has had a character or two that operates like this. GM Sub MKX is its own little MKX ecosystem for many MU's. The most salt comes from GM Sub's polarizing factor. A bad MU vs GM is very bad, but the same can often be said for the reverse, when GM Sub has it bad, he has it very bad. I think if you ACCEPT that you must play Sub's game and stop raging at the fact you cannot, he becomes more manageable. Sun God, sadly, will always be painful vs GM Sub, but there have been several suggestions on what to do and how to do handle him. The biggest stumbling block is mindset. If you grind out the MU, really grind it out, and approach it with the understanding that you must play on his terms and wasting resources and life to the contrary isn't going to get you any where, then the MU becomes more manageable. Let him come to you. Don't lose.yourself in your offense. The SPLIT SECOND you start to chase a GM, you are going to pay for it. Keep that in mind.

Now, I'm a scrub and I'm full of scrubbiness, but oddly enough, what little experience I have had been like 80% GM Sub. I still get wrecked, but that's because I'm so trash I can lose aa game of MKX while playing SFIV. So take my opinions with a grain of salt, but GM Sub isn't op and he's not.unbeatable. He just forces his own little meta-game and you have to be conscious of that to succeed vs a well played one.. And of course some MU's don't have a universal, I WIN answer, so being.conscious of that and doing as well as you can, is all you can do.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Basically everything you posted is wrong.
About the same time I locked in on Sun God, a friend of mine locked in on GM and Cryo. Against those he feels don't have tools to get around the clone - he picks GM. If he thinks they can't, he'll go Cryo for the better normals and damage. I've watched him dominate King of the Hills and witnessed first-hand the SZ hate most players have. I've dominated KOTH's too. Now, he's no Tom Brady - and I'm no Madzin, but we've both put in the work to learn our respective characters pretty much inside and out. When I go SG and he goes GM, its about a 6-4 matchup in his favor - and we're pretty evenly matched. So, the matchup isn't favorable to SG - but its certainly no where near as bad as everyone's making it out to be.

I expect it from the SG Johnny-Come-With-The-Last-Patch-Latelys, but not from you because we both were pretty much set on SG from day one.
 
Last edited: