General/Other - Jason Voorhees [Pre-XL] Buffing JASON VOORHEES So He Becomes more Viable

Prinz said:

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I think he needs some work on his damage scaling with the EX choke in relentless and unstoppable. Finishing a long combo and ending with an EX choke only nets you like 1-3% extra.

Also, make F2 in slasher able to be combo'd into midscreen rather than just canceling into psycho slash. Make it start a juggle. It's slow as tits right now.

I agree with the Slasher suggestions.

Damned certainly does need another reworking. It's so unfortunate that what was considered a "bug" was something to get so spoiled by. God damn, it was always SO fun to go into that third round, especially if you lost a lot of health during the two prior rounds. Your opponent HAD to respect you, especially if you got down to 50% during the third round. The damage output was un-fucking-believable. It sucks that it's gone.

But I like Pryce's idea for the passive. It would need to be done intelligently, however. Wouldn't want him to do a 90% choke at 30% health.

^ Just thinking about that made me picture what someone's reaction would be to seeing that for the first time. There would be a shitstorm like no other. LOL

EMPEROR PRYCE said:

One choke? A wake up? If predator wakes up at any amount of health that's 50% gone.

Plus it'll go away next round. Maybe it's a bit much, maybe like 0.65 lol but I think itd be fair.

Especially when he can't really get good damage midscreen or corner if he tries without it.

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Let's not forget that scimitar slam is 24 frame startup (gets stuffed by pretty much anything) and -12 on block.

EX bear hug cannot be blocked and it's completely safe on whiff.

You have inspired me to do something similar for Unbreakable. I have the same passion for that variation that you have for the entire character, and hopefully with enough support, maybe someone at NRS might hear it out.

Good work @YOMI REO. NRS must see the passion and intelligence in your post.

I'd decrease the scaling on Bear Hug and Back Breaker when used in a combo. Other grapplers get big damage when using their command grabs in combos,so why shouldn't Jason?It would also boost his positioning game since he would be able to choose what side he wants you on.

EndofGameBoss said:

Mileena has a 9 frame d1, so I understand the struggle there. Give them both 6-7 frame d1's.

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Mileena has a d1?

His B122 in slasher is a great spacing tool but it often pushes your opponent away and leaves you open to a full combo punish. It should be able to give more viable spacing.

Yoaks said:

Mileena has a d1?

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Lol might as well take it away since it isn't fast enough to follow her +2 strings, but this convo is for the Mileena forum lol

nonono you all miss the point with down pokes

8f d1 with slightly more range
better recovery on d3 (optional, just a reason to be played)
10f d4 in relentless/unstoppable (that's what he needs, not gonna say why, figure it out)

Quoting @YOMI REO 's post with my responses.

- Jason's down+1 should become 6 frames of start up.
I was thinking this when I first picked up Jason but now I think it doesn't fit with Jason's theme of being a slow beast that hits hard. If they buff Jason properly he won't need this, but if they don't buff that much I am all for this change

- Jason's back+3 should become faster in start up at 10 frames
This is a no brainer. This move is redundant with b1 in almost every way and worse.

- Corpse Grab should become faster in start up or become a better anti-air
Also one I immediately wanted when I first picked up Jason. He needs it. MB should also launch for combo.

Also NRS needs to post an apology for nerfing choke's damage and bring back the 2% damage they nerfed.

RELENTLESS:

- Lake Mist special move (D,B+2) should receive some invulnerability frames when Jason dematerializes
Yes. Very handy against zoners. I would even be for some faster recovery frames as well.

Also NRS needs to post an apology for changing Relentless' passive and just revert it back to what it was last patch. It was fine and not broke.

UNSTOPPABLE

- Punishment special move (D,D,3) needs to have better recovery or given an extra perk
Punishmenst needs to last 8 seconds to keep in line with the 8 second aura theme in MKX.
Or this move needs to completely be reworked to a meter build over time special. With it being a meter build over time special it would complete Unstoppable's theme of meter = health. Unstoppable would be a health juggernaut. Doing this move would increase meter which would increase his health. Add rise in with this and you have a character that could easily get 150% health during one round. Would be fun.


- Corpse Walk special move (D,D,4+Block) needs to have way better recovery and heal more health
Already tweeted this bug to Paulo, I am hopeful that this worst EX move in the game will be fixed next patch.

Corpse walk should heal for 10% over time, and STACK with regular rise. So you could do Rise and then Corpse Walk to heal 15% over time.

I am lazy and still have not done the math on Unstoppable's passive of coming back to life. But I am sure that he should come back with more health than he does now. 3 bars is super low right now.


For some reason I think a lot of people don't care for Jason. When I try to talk about Unstoppable Jason at GGA everyone's eyes glaze over and they don't care lol. I think that is all over the country too.

Just give Jason an armored normal when his life is under 40%, no bar needed. Other than that leave em as he is. Design wise, Jeremiah is correct, Jason should be a slow character but also design wise he should have free armor.

An armored normal? Hell no lol

BiPolarExxpress said:

An armored normal? Hell no lol

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Like Bane's f2 when he was on venom level 3

Haou Shoukou Ken said:

Like Bane's f2 when he was on venom level 3

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it could work. If they want to give him the theme of a slow juggernaut, a normal move with armor under a certain amount of health could be fun.

EMPEROR PRYCE said:

One choke? A wake up? If predator wakes up at any amount of health that's 50% gone.

Plus it'll go away next round. Maybe it's a bit much, maybe like 0.65 lol but I think itd be fair.

Especially when he can't really get good damage midscreen or corner if he tries without it.

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*40% off a wakeup, or 43% in the corner. Unless you're talking about hunter in which case it's 47% for two bars and it's not an easy one to pull off online.

GGA Jeremiah said:

it could work. If they want to give him the theme of a slow juggernaut, a normal move with armor under a certain amount of health could be fun.

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lol bottom 5 when over 50% health, top 5 when under. Sounds fun

@GGA Jeremiah, I have to disagree about the 6 frame down+1 ruining his "slow beast" theme. He still is a slow beast regardless. Jason is the ONLY character that can't cover more ground instantly by running like other characters can. He is FORCED to walk his way around the battle field and it's almost entirely unique to the character's design when playing a character in MKX where it's explosive and people utilizing running as a staple.

Jason still has some of the slowest standing jabs in the game, one of the slowest D+3s in the game, one of the slowest lows in the game with F+3, and one of the slowest overhead in the game with F+3. Making his D+1 fast would not ruin his overall slow beast theme since it's purpose is for balance and he's a slow character overall aside from the occasional fast attacks like his armor, d+1, and B+1 string. Besides Torr is also a slow juggernaut who has a 6 frame d+1 so I think it's totally fine honestly.

Haou Shoukou Ken said:

Just give Jason an armored normal when his life is under 40%, no bar needed. Other than that leave em as he is. Design wise, Jeremiah is correct, Jason should be a slow character but also design wise he should have free armor.

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I think the only normals that could be considered for this change would be F+2 or F+3, for balance purposes. It's a cool and unique idea. But would need to be monitored carefully.

YOMI REO said:

@GGA Jeremiah, I have to disagree about the 6 frame down+1 ruining his "slow beast" theme. He still is a slow beast regardless. Jason is the ONLY character that can't cover more ground instantly by running like other characters can. He is FORCED to walk his way around the battle field and it's almost entirely unique to the character's design when playing a character in MKX where it's explosive and people utilizing running as a staple.

Jason still has some of the slowest standing jabs in the game, one of the slowest D+3s in the game, one of the slowest lows in the game with F+3, and one of the slowest overhead in the game with F+3. Making his D+1 fast would not ruin his overall slow beast theme since it's purpose is for balance and he's a slow character overall aside from the occasional fast attacks like his armor, d+1, and B+1 string. Besides Torr is also a slow juggernaut who has a 6 frame d+1 so I think it's totally fine honestly.

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I'd be fine with him having a 6f d1. It seems to be going around these days. I guess my goal for Jason is that he gets buffed so much he doesn't need a d1 change. But looking like NRS is happy with Jason being low tier I think he won't get enough buffs, so I am all for the d1 change now I guess.

With retarded determination, I continue to main Jason. I'm all for a 6 frame d1. Would it be too much to ask for corpse grab to hit mid? The low profile life is hard. I won't lie.

The more I play slasher the more I can think of to help his game out. When I play Jason I only play slasher so here are my suggestions for that variation that I haven't already listed.

Increase start up of machete toss EX but make it +20ish. Kotal Khan has the same sort of mechanic. It's possible to armor thru from any string, but if opponent blocks it, even from full screen it allows Jason to make his way in.

Decrease hurtbox on d1 but increase hitbox for more consistent cross up anti air. Same for b2 for jump in anti air.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, give one of his specials less knockback that isn't bf2. U can end combos in bf2 to keep the opponent close, but u have to sacrifice damage by cutting the juggle short due to the start up. Choke and bf3 both send full screen which means poor ole Jason has to find his way back in.

F2 ever so slightly moves Jason forward, to increase probability of bf2 and choke connecting.

F3 low crushes and has less pushback on hit and more on block.

Bf2 regular safer on block (-6 or 7) to end pressure strings with a true mid rather than getting read by ur opponent in a neutral duck and blown tf up for it.

Slasher d4 a little bit more range and less start up to whiff punish pokes. Also enough hit adv to JAIL into stand 1.


Long wish list I know, but the character is super fun to play with. With these buffs I think his weaknesses will stay the same, but his Pros will be even stronger to keep him viable.