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Strategy Frame Traps (In theory) Why do you guys get so upset when people poke out of frames?

VOR

VOR

Noob
Well, the netcode sucks, so it's still annoying as shit when a guaranteed frame trap goes wrong. However, I do like that most characters have really good reversals out of them. You can't just spam your plus frame good normals, you have to stagger them and bait people, based on different levels of respect of what they'll do. I do also really like the negative frame trap, setting yourself up at negative frames, and following up with armor, expecting them to follow up with pressure. This forces people to make stronger reads and I think shows the skill of the player more so than in MK9. You have to have more varied strategies with what to do with frames.
 
kraezyx

kraezyx

I never considered you at all.
Where are people getting upset at this? Sounds like it'd be a good read / watch.
Would love to see the people that get poked out of their "frametraps" and get upset at opponent for poking.
 
RunwayMafia

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
VOR said:
Well, the netcode sucks, so it's still annoying as shit when a guaranteed frame trap goes wrong. However, I do like that most characters have really good reversals out of them. You can't just spam your plus frame good normals, you have to stagger them and bait people, based on different levels of respect of what they'll do. I do also really like the negative frame trap, setting yourself up at negative frames, and following up with armor, expecting them to follow up with pressure. This forces people to make stronger reads and I think shows the skill of the player more so than in MK9. You have to have more varied strategies with what to do with frames.
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I agree with this statement.

A lot of people find it annoying, but I love the armor meta in this game. As a Kitana player, after doing f112 (-5), if I notice the opponent almost always pushes buttons or advances after, I will throw out EX Staff/Rising fan. Only good players will start to respect the stagger strings and strings that are barely negative and the meta evolves into baiting armor and/or baiting buttons.
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
MsMiharo said:
Lbsh no one can dethrone scorpion. He's up there though
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Nah. Ermac is the king of the "Newb Throne" for sure. At least newbie Scorpions try to somewhat mix it up. Ermac players are like d3 x eleventy-billion into overhead.
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Noob
EMPEROR PRYCE said:
We've seen this happen offline just as much as online. Regardless it still falls on the player for mistiming his frame trap. Now OBVIOUSLY its online and timing gets botched, but that doesn't mean your opponent should respect you just because lol.

I just think it's all silly. Putting blame for a mistake that was made by you on to someone else(I'm speaking in general) because it worked. If they poked and u succeed you get rewarded for a full combo. If they respect you continue pressure. If they poke and THEY succeed you they get out of pressure.

It happens offline and online
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No, it does not happen offline to a competent player for a frame trap that strong. I might see a 2 frame link, but for 3 frames I have to be seriously drunk to not make that frame trap. Like, really, really, really drunk.

Online it happens all the time.

Let's not pretend someone who successfully presses a button when they're -7 is making a "good read". They're pressing pokes when they don't have priority, and they're banking on the lag- not their good decision making- to see them through.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
It's not necessarily a bad idea to press buttons when your opponent is +. Just because something is guaranteed on paper doesn't mean your opponent will be frame perfect every time.

You have to test them sometimes. If you're able to poke them when they're +, that means they didn't time their shit correctly.

Likewise, if you're at - frames and find that your opponent isn't punishing you or poking you...hit buttons. Punish them for overrespecting you.

This is all in relation to offline. People aren't machines and in a ft2 set where everything is on the line, people fuck up. So, you gotta test them. Not all the time, but sometimes.
 
Reactions: GQJ
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
VOR said:
Well, the netcode sucks, so it's still annoying as shit when a guaranteed frame trap goes wrong. However, I do like that most characters have really good reversals out of them. You can't just spam your plus frame good normals, you have to stagger them and bait people, based on different levels of respect of what they'll do. I do also really like the negative frame trap, setting yourself up at negative frames, and following up with armor, expecting them to follow up with pressure. This forces people to make stronger reads and I think shows the skill of the player more so than in MK9. You have to have more varied strategies with what to do with frames.
Click to expand...
RunwayMafia said:
I agree with this statement.

A lot of people find it annoying, but I love the armor meta in this game. As a Kitana player, after doing f112 (-5), if I notice the opponent almost always pushes buttons or advances after, I will throw out EX Staff/Rising fan. Only good players will start to respect the stagger strings and strings that are barely negative and the meta evolves into baiting armor and/or baiting buttons.
Click to expand...
My exact thoughts. I use this meta a lot in my gameplay and I was very happy when I saw Slayer do it a LOT in TFC with EX spin after a blocked poke. It was beautiful.
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
Eldriken said:
Nah. Ermac is the king of the "Newb Throne" for sure. At least newbie Scorpions try to somewhat mix it up. Ermac players are like d3 x eleventy-billion into overhead.
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Using D3 110 billion times... would take longer than anyone could live.

Damn, Ermac players fighting for keeps.
 
EMPEROR PRYCE

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
Tony at Home said:
No, it does not happen offline to a competent player for a frame trap that strong. I might see a 2 frame link, but for 3 frames I have to be seriously drunk to not make that frame trap. Like, really, really, really drunk.

Online it happens all the time.

Let's not pretend someone who successfully presses a button when they're -7 is making a "good read". They're pressing pokes when they don't have priority, and they're banking on the lag- not their good decision making- to see them through.
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Ive seen players like sonicfox poke out after tempest hat spin. I've seen smart reads on shinnok hell sparks where shinnok tries running to bait a grab and instead is met with a poke. We've all seen it.

Idk I think you've been playing online a bit much. Regardless of lag, if someone can mash poke, you can mash your next button for the frame trap.

Anyway, the point is you WANT THEM TO POKE. If they don't poke, they block and you don't get the hit. If you hit the poke and successfully frame trap them you get a full combo. "Lag tactics" or not, it still falls on the fault of the player for not executing correctly. Idgaf if you're +100, that means nothing (aside from Chip damage and corner carry which are important but not the topic of discussion) if the opponent doesn't attempt to poke out you only get more pressure, nothing else.
 
JJV Phoenix

JJV Phoenix

I'm not Vak goddamnit
EMPEROR PRYCE said:
Ive seen players like sonicfox poke out after tempest hat spin. I've seen smart reads on shinnok hell sparks where shinnok tries running to bait a grab and instead is met with a poke. We've all seen it.

Idk I think you've been playing online a bit much. Regardless of lag, if someone can mash poke, you can mash your next button for the frame trap.

Anyway, the point is you WANT THEM TO POKE. If they don't poke, they block and you don't get the hit. If you hit the poke and successfully frame trap them you get a full combo. "Lag tactics" or not, it still falls on the fault of the player for not executing correctly. Idgaf if you're +100, that means nothing (aside from Chip damage and corner carry which are important but not the topic of discussion) if the opponent doesn't attempt to poke out you only get more pressure, nothing else.
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Sometimes frame traps have to result in more pressure for the long game in certain conditions. When playing brawler Cassie I use b124 to be +1, because any smart player can block that string if I'm not whiff punishing them. Then if they go for a button I poke with my 7f d3 (since a low poke on their end will low profile my 6f 2 in most scenarios) to keep them blocking and 212 into a tick throw or my overhead tackle (admittedly risky at -20), or a throw since I'm neutral after 212 on block. If I land that block mixup I've opened them up for another mixup on oki and the chance for a full combo. Sometimes blocking is the best outcome given your character's options.
 
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