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General/Other - Ermac Ermac General Discussion Thread

14K

14K

Noob
Icy Black Deep said:
Well you guys did it again. The cry of "Don't touch Ermac!" went out and they didn't! Damned near everyone else got a slew of buffs though.

Now Tremor players were clearly on the ball this time.
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Honestly if there was crying it probably wasnt from anyone that partakes in this thread, Ermac is around one of the most balanced characters in the game. if anything was to be touched on it was just to cater to the cries of some ppl not the other way around... I also play Tremor but honestly i havent been in the lab with him, doing so right now. But from what i read on the patch notes about him, that stuff is not that big of a deal...

@Dope Dojo Dont trade in your MOS bro, Spectral is still not effecient and has a ton of weaknesses MOS doesnt... like Themata94 said, that variation needed a lot more than just an air string and an EX armored move no one really needs... Like iv said before Mystic and Spectral needed a fireball to mitigate the awfull frame data they have, cause of right now Mystic plays at this weird range where if you are not super precise with your Choke you will get punished, making ppl scared to use it, and others needing to take the time to learn spacing game for the full cast... and Spectral simply has no means to deal with zonners at all specially those that have air fireballs or controlable directional fireballs, which is most of the cast... If Ermac had the same frame data on his teleport as Scorpion does, then Spectral would be in business, but since thats not the case Spectral stayed right where he was before, a novelty variation where ppl can flat their arms in the air

EDIT: the only interesting thing i found about Spectral is that at anypoint in the target combo you can link in a ground pound or Soul blast, but this still doesnt make up for the lack of everything else
 
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Temjiin

Temjiin

www.mkxframedata.com
Error said:
I don't know, Paulo kind of mumbles so I couldn't hear lol
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I really thought I heard 16 but it turns out they buffed it by 1% haha

Really disappointing buffs to Mystic but MOS is still strong and D4 is now a low... can't complain too much.

I was hoping to main Mystic again though :(
 
PPJ

PPJ

()
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
normal push does 1% more and ex push does 13%, heals 5%, and drains half a bar of opponents meter
 
PPJ

PPJ

()
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Error said:
wasn't expecting this quick a response lol, does the opponent still build back half the meter they lost after they're tossed?
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they gain i think one hit of meter back from the ex push, so technically all together it will drain a bit less than half
 
Temjiin

Temjiin

www.mkxframedata.com
GGA pimpimjim said:
normal push does 1% more and ex push does 13%, heals 5%, and drains half a bar of opponents meter
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That's actually a really solid buff to a move that confused a lot of us. Thanks for the info.

Apart from the damage, does anything else scale when used at the end of a combo?
 
haketh

haketh

Noob
Temjiin said:
That's actually a really solid buff to a move that confused a lot of us. Thanks for the info.

Apart from the damage, does anything else scale when used at the end of a combo?
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Yeah Tyler said something about comboing easier & I'm just like ?
 
Dope Dojo

Dope Dojo

The Bomb Diggity
Also to touch on the Tremor part. They made Tremors b1 and standing 2 highs instead of mids. So unless you plan on burning armor or just doing d1 anything you try after a db1 dd cancel can he poked out of.
 
jharris

jharris

I'm not surprised, motherfuckers
In mystic is it easier to get push after an uppercut (from lift) now? Or am I imagining
 
14K

14K

Noob
Dope Dojo said:
Also to touch on the Tremor part. They made Tremors b1 and standing 2 highs instead of mids. So unless you plan on burning armor or just doing d1 anything you try after a db1 dd cancel can he poked out of.
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Doesnt change anything, After the Db1 cancel you could always poke out even if you where really fast anyone mashing D1 could poke out of the cancel, so now they really can poke out but its no big deal Tremor is still fun for me and im doing everything i was doing before without much problems, the increased ranged game is nice but its not a game changer... As for Spectral iv been doing some testing and stuff and honestly canceling any string into levitate for the target combo overheads is just plain, there is no advantage in doing so... you can get the same results with IA FB and it doesnt leave you there floating like a weirdo... Nothing Changed for Spectral his still among the worse variations in the game... As for Mystic the increased damage is nice but my opinion stays... its to negative to be realiable, and spending bar on EX choke at the end of combos seems contra productive because Ermac needs the bar for defense... Honestly only a hand full o characters got REAL buffs this patch... Cryo (oh lord cryo is going to be an issue from now on) Jackie seems quite better tho i have no intereste in playing a character even more plain and boring than johnny "Plain Dude" Cage...
 
Dope Dojo

Dope Dojo

The Bomb Diggity
All of Ermac's launch strings have 0 Frame cancel advantage so I only found myself able to fly cancel after b12. Which seems pretty disappointing. You may get new corner combos, but even this morning I was trying to do F21 d2 njp flight. You can get flight 234, but if you teleport they hit the ground almost immediately.

I noticed a small damage difference in Mystic but not enough to make it as worth using imo.
 
Themata94

Themata94

They're comin' outta the Goddamn walls!
In my testing it was roughly 1/3 of the bar, not quite as close to 1/2 as I'd like but yeah.
Mystic is a little better but I agree that we needed a fireball. Honestly, I think the ideas they've had about Ermac's variations have been a little off between the set of them. I'm fine with MoS as it is, but I feel like Mystic's lift belongs in Spectral especially with the new string. Mystic should have a fireball and generally be more zoning-oriented than it is, one special for that purpose is not enough. You can't play keep-away very well with one special that requires good spacing and is very negative on block, no matter how nice the little perks it has when enhanced are.
 
14K

14K

Noob
Themata94 said:
In my testing it was roughly 1/3 of the bar, not quite as close to 1/2 as I'd like but yeah.
Mystic is a little better but I agree that we needed a fireball. Honestly, I think the ideas they've had about Ermac's variations have been a little off between the set of them. I'm fine with MoS as it is, but I feel like Mystic's lift belongs in Spectral especially with the new string. Mystic should have a fireball and generally be more zoning-oriented than it is, one special for that purpose is not enough. You can't play keep-away very well with one special that requires good spacing and is very negative on block, no matter how nice the little perks it has when enhanced are.
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You have no clue for how many weeks iv been saying Mystic and Spectral need a fireball, but more Mystic than anything... to put it very simply, Choke is useless because Ermac has no tool to compliment it... Why would you want to toss your opponent half way across the screen and lose pressure? well the obvious answer is to zone him out... well Ermac only has zooning tools in MOS sooooo.... what where they thinking? that we could Zone ppl out with ground pound? was that it?... i mean NRS makes cool games sure i give them that, but sometimes they bite more than they can chew... i feel they dont understand a lot of the fundamentals of what makes a zooner a zooner, a rush down character able to do proper rushdown... i mean this is why a lot of ppl give NRS fighters a lot of shit.. because they have poor fundamental bases for characters... I actually dont see a reason to remove his iconic fireball in the first place?! i mean there is no reason,... MOS can still be unique in the fact that its fireball binds, but keep the normal fireball on all other variations, its not like Ermacs fireball was that AMAZING in the first place that needed to be removed... bah going on a rant, imma stop here
 
Themata94

Themata94

They're comin' outta the Goddamn walls!
14K said:
You have no clue for how many weeks iv been saying Mystic and Spectral need a fireball
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I've only joined TYM recently, so you're right, I don't haha. But I'm glad someone else thought the same thing. Exactly, ground pound is all we really have at full screen (except for IA Soul Ball on prediction/reaction to a jump in MoS). I get that he's the "unsafe god" and we can throw out a teleport at full sdreen if we're feeling particularly randy, but 99% of the time against a good player you'll eat a 30%+ punish for even trying that and yet it's one of the only things we can do at full screen universally nevermind varation-specific. I did personally find it very strange that he kept what's close to his signature fireball in MoS but a variant of it wasn't in the others. Plus conceptually there's a lot of cool zoning ideas using souls that could have been implemented, and his telekinesis should in itself produce ideas for a full-screen game like Kenshi's did. I love MoS's vortex-based rushdown but I would love a zoning option for certain matchups rather than living and dying by my mixup.
 
Afumba

Afumba

Noob
GGA pimpimjim said:
they gain i think one hit of meter back from the ex push, so technically all together it will drain a bit less than half
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It looks more like they still gain 1/3 to 1/2 of what they loose back. Its totally pathetic for a move that drains meter to give a big chunk of it back.
 
Icy Black Deep

Icy Black Deep

Still training...
Afumba said:
It looks more like they still gain 1/3 to 1/2 of what they loose back. Its totally pathetic for a move that drains meter to give a big chunk of it back.
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True, but with the damage buff it may be worth using. It's roughly on part with EX soul blast, so you have options. (EX TKP has armor right? I don't actually use Mystic enough to keep it all straight.)
 
Afumba

Afumba

Noob
Icy Black Deep said:
True, but with the damage buff it may be worth using. It's roughly on part with EX soul blast, so you have options. (EX TKP has armor right? I don't actually use Mystic enough to keep it all straight.)
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I understand your point... but you misunderstood why i am upset about it. From my point of view Mystic didnt get anything.
For me this isnt a buff, its just a fix. Cmon friend... it did 6% damage for a bar... just a silly price in a game were you have launchers and whatnot for the same price. I just refuse to believe someone made this move with the old values and got away with it... even worse got a paycheck for it.
Its like selling someone a gun for 100bucks and the other 9 guys that want to buy a weapon get a rocket launcher, a minigun or a tank for the same 100bucks.

Also only scenarios i can think of were i want to use ex tkp are 1. if you desperately need a 5% heal or 2. if you want/can negate a opponents ex wake-up with a bar. The buff to ex burst took away a few others.

Further ex tkp is designed as jack of all trades, half assed wannabe thing. Which is a thing i dislike alot.
Even with these new values from the get go... geez... remove either the heal or the meterdrain and raise the other stat to make it account for something real.

Well... whatever... i should stop now :D just too upset about the patch. Jin & Dvorah got a better threatment than Ermac... i am sad... i go cry now :p
 
Icy Black Deep

Icy Black Deep

Still training...
Afumba said:
From my point of view Mystic didnt get anything.
For me this isnt a buff, its just a fix. Cmon friend... it did 6% damage for a bar... just a silly price in a game were you have launchers and whatnot for the same price.
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Yes, I agree with that. After EX Soul Blast was buffed it was OK, but in a game that has superior moves. EX TKP is now the same way.

It seems to be status quo here that people are happy with Ermac being a good character in a game that has great characters.
 
14K

14K

Noob
Temjiin said:
Stealth buffs to Mystic, get hype!

Push and EX push have been buffed from -25 to -24. Revovery 35 from 36 and hit advantage 37 from 36.

Thank you Paulo, you have made Mystic a force to be reckoned with.
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But you know whats even more hilarious than that? is that this is where they want the game to be at for a while Paulo said this to everyone, i love it... This is where we want the game to be at for a while so... This is ridiculous im not even... MGS V take me away from the sadnes
 
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