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Question - Summoner Is this character overly downplayed?

Is summoner broken?

  • Yes,his tools are too strong

    Votes: 59 43.7%

  • No,he's fair you're upplaying

    Votes: 52 38.5%

  • completely broken,definitely top 5

    Votes: 18 13.3%

  • Not at all,he's so overated

    Votes: 6 4.4%
  • Total voters
    135
Swordzman321

Swordzman321

Noob
I've rarely played against a chi, so my experience and opinion is formed entirely from outside sources. But the hard to blockable AKA psuedo unblockable is the only part of the character that seems strong enough to merit the term broken, If the b2/njp + lowbat didn't loop it seems like it wouldn't be an issue, retaining the insane offense, and making him less ToD. The possible solutions in my opinion would be

1. make low bat hit mid, this would remove the 50/50 entirely, and i feel like this is the laziest solution, but if this is what happens predators traps should also hit mid.

2. reduce quan's damage overall, this also seems like a lazy solution, and is probably the weakest in terms of solving the "problem"

3. make b2 safe, and have no special cancel frames. Not sure how this would affect the character, or his offense.

4. increase the frames to block his psuedo unblockable to anywhere between 5-15. This to me seems like the best solution, a 50/50 that can be blocked on reaction that leads to a ton of damage. Although i'd also say to make either b2 or low bat neutral on block, so that quan can throw it out and not eat a full combo for doing so.


Perhaps i'm entirely wrong, and i'm nowhere near the level of some of the others posting here. But this is just my observation after reading the thread. Also fix the multiple curses bug on sorcerer, it's just silly.
 
P

proto3296

Noob
His tools are WAY too strong. He can 50/50 you to death. I hate the excuse that he has a terrible wake up attack and reversal means make him amazing everywhere else. D'Vorah's wake up is also ass. Yet she doesnt get a 50/50 reset that can kill you with one touch. To make him more fair in my opinion they should make his normals slower on start up. Because he has some pretty decent normals let's be real.
 
FrankOceansWaifu

FrankOceansWaifu

Watch this set up.
Making his normals slower will make him even worse at reversals. And Dvorah does have 50/50s that do lead into big damage that rivals Quan's, not only that but she also has good, no scratch that,great normals and an actual reversal.
 
RM NoBrows

RM NoBrows

Supah hawt fiyah
proto3296 said:
His tools are WAY too strong. He can 50/50 you to death. I hate the excuse that he has a terrible wake up attack and reversal means make him amazing everywhere else. D'Vorah's wake up is also ass. Yet she doesnt get a 50/50 reset that can kill you with one touch. To make him more fair in my opinion they should make his normals slower on start up. Because he has some pretty decent normals let's be real.
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No. Block low and react to the OH. His OH is 15 or 16 frames its very reactable. His fastest frame move is an 8f high which is decent. With his bat summoned, block low high. It's really not that bad. There's shit in this game that's way better than what quan chi can do
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
RM NoBrows said:
His OH is 15 or 16 frames its very reactable.
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15 frames is not reactable in the slightest. The average human can muster a dedicated reaction of about 18-20 frames.

Also, it's easy to say block low then high if your timing is systematic. Throw off the timing of either in any way, and the idea of fuzzy guarding gets murky as shit.
 
RM NoBrows

RM NoBrows

Supah hawt fiyah
THTB said:
15 frames is not reactable in the slightest. The average human can muster a dedicated reaction of about 18-20 frames.

Also, it's easy to say block low then high if your timing is systematic. Throw off the timing of either in any way, and the idea of fuzzy guarding gets murky as shit.
Click to expand...
It's reactable
THTB said:
15 frames is not reactable in the slightest. The average human can muster a dedicated reaction of about 18-20 frames.

Also, it's easy to say block low then high if your timing is systematic. Throw off the timing of either in any way, and the idea of fuzzy guarding gets murky as shit.
Click to expand...
I shouldn't have said very reactable that was a bit of an exaggeration. But it is reactable
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
15 frames is also not even remotely reactable.

Repeating, "it's reactable" doesn't make you any less wrong.

If it IS reactable, show me footage of anyone reacting to a 15 frame move 10/10 times in a real match.

For reference's sake, Smoke's overhead in MK9 was 15 frames. Show me people reacting to Tommy Wafflez 10/10 times.

Making a read and reacting are not the same thing.
 
Last edited:
haketh

haketh

Noob
Rude said:
I don't have an agenda. I want as many strong characters as possible.

But again, we've all had this talk and this thread twice before.
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While it's in all communities I dunno what it is but it seems the want for people to not have strong characters & have things be more homogeneous is strong in this scene.
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
RM NoBrows said:
It's reactable

I shouldn't have said very reactable that was a bit of an exaggeration. But it is reactable
Click to expand...
Also, if you dedicate yourself to blocking low than high, you will get blown up by b3 everytime
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
RM NoBrows said:
It's reactable

I shouldn't have said very reactable that was a bit of an exaggeration. But it is reactable
Click to expand...
That is not reactable by any means. Not by a vast majority of players, including top players. 18 frames is already pushing your reactions. 15 is pretty much an abnormal level of reactions.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
haketh said:
Also damn we still got people complaining about how Quan get's away for free but aint punishing gaps between EX Rune
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Once people get this down, he'll be more manageable for sure. Still a jackass character, though, lol.
 
haketh

haketh

Noob
THTB said:
Once people get this down, he'll be more manageable for sure. Still a jackass character, though, lol.
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Oh hell yeah, even with all the stuff people aren't doing it aint gonna be free still lol. Just I see people complaining about the things they can do something about.

Also shoutouts to Reptile just being able to slide out of the hardto blockable lol
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
haketh said:
Oh hell yeah, even with all the stuff people aren't doing it aint gonna be free still lol. Just I see people complaining about the things they can do something about.

Also shoutouts to Reptile just being able to slide out of the hardto blockable lol
Click to expand...
OH WORD???????????? JUST REGULAR SLIDE?????????????
 
DevilMaySpy

DevilMaySpy

Mama's Little Bumgorf
Rude said:
Didn't this thread happen twice already?

I have to wonder if Shinnok players, Sonya players, Cassie players, Erron Black players, or Predator players have to put up with bi-weekly shit threads like these, or is it a privledge only us Quan players must endure?
Click to expand...

We got a thread asking for our GRAVITY to be nerfed. Let me know when it gets that ridiculous.
 
xInfra Deadx

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
RM NoBrows said:
No. Block low and react to the OH. His OH is 15 or 16 frames its very reactable. His fastest frame move is an 8f high which is decent. With his bat summoned, block low high. It's really not that bad. There's shit in this game that's way better than what quan chi can do
Click to expand...
It's sure as hell not. not for another 8 frames or so later is when you start to end up in reactable land.
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
JDM said:
Quan's extremely overrated. Take him into training mode and you can figure his vortex out pretty easily. Most people don't even go for that shit in tournament because of the fear that if they get blocked they get FUCKED. Completely fucked.
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RM NoBrows said:
He has great zoning and good unbreakable damage, but people always talk about his "unblockables". I main summoner quan and played multiple summoner quans. That shit is NOT that hard to block. Regardless if its b2 low bat or NJP low bat, Literally 90% of those setups are low OH. And if its OH low its even easier to block. Yes his tools are good in summoner. But he isn't downplayed at all. If anything people upplay this variation too much.
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RM NoBrows said:
It's reactable

I shouldn't have said very reactable that was a bit of an exaggeration. But it is reactable
Click to expand...
It's ok to argue one way or the other on this, but to do so we need to stop spreading misinformation. 15 frames is NOT even remotely react able. A 1-2 frame link is NOT easy to block and go into the training mode and figure out, I'm guessing you guys are talking about QCs regular vortex but don't have the knowledge here. Or you are just downplaying. but I'll give the benefit of the doubt here.

Record yourself doing this http://testyourmight.com/threads/vs-quan-chi-bat-vortex-training.54840/. Practice a little till you can get a TINY link with QC, then record yourself blocking it 5/5 times without resetting. Then YOU can say that this is easy to block, because as it stands everyone else is dealing with reality and you guys are just saying "but the science is wrong because I said so!". Then we can address the fact that even being able to learn a tiny block link means fuck all when your opponent can literally change the timing to suit his needs.




I'm all for a good debate with good arguments on both sides. But this sort of stuff, like "you can react to 15 frame start ups!" and "2 frame block links that have randomized timing are easy!" is just doing exactly what this thread is talking about... DOWNPLAYING. There is no other word for it, because the lies are blatant lol.
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Regardless, whether or not Quan DOES need fixing aside for a second, even assuming he is perfectly fine - this character is undebatably downplayed. The shit people will come up with when QC is in question is hilarious. This thread has some good examples of it, here is another, probably the WORST post I've EVER seen on TYM, and I've seen some shit

legion666 said:
Maybe you should get over the fact that Quan has such hard to block set ups and learn to deal with them instead of crying for nerfs. If execution isn't a problem to creat such set ups in a real match, then execution shouldn't be a problem do block these either. Also Quan isn't the only one who has such set ups. They can be created by TAkeda( any overhead+Ex kunai), Predator (any overhead +the trap), Tremor (either timed low ground pulse+overhead or overhead boulder+a low attack), even by D'Vorah (though hers are easier to block). Let's start the nerf fest!!!
The same goes for PC - Creat a macros for blocking the macros of your opponent - problem solved!
Click to expand...
And yeah, that isn't sarcasm or satire.
 
P

proto3296

Noob
FrankOceansWaifu said:
Making his normals slower will make him even worse at reversals. And Dvorah does have 50/50s that do lead into big damage that rivals Quan's, not only that but she also has good, no scratch that,great normals and an actual reversal.
Click to expand...
What good reversal does she have? and she has good normals, lets not get ahead of our selves here. What 50/50 does she have besides the restand outside of venomous and ex throw? Quan chi has straight up 50/50 you have to guess. She just has a good over head and good low starter. There's a difference
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
proto3296 said:
What good reversal does she have? and she has good normals, lets not get ahead of our selves here. What 50/50 does she have besides the restand outside of venomous and ex throw? Quan chi has straight up 50/50 you have to guess. She just has a good over head and good low starter. There's a difference
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Huh? I was with you for the first part, what do you mean DVorah doesn't have 50/50's?
 
Rude

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
God, this thread just won't die.

I'd suggest a wooden stake to the heart, but i think that would only anger this thread.
 
FrankOceansWaifu

FrankOceansWaifu

Watch this set up.
proto3296 said:
What good reversal does she have? and she has good normals, lets not get ahead of our selves here. What 50/50 does she have besides the restand outside of venomous and ex throw? Quan chi has straight up 50/50 you have to guess. She just has a good over head and good low starter. There's a difference
Click to expand...
I said a reversal as in EX oviposit(or?)charge which is armored and decent in getting your opponent off you. Quan's only armored move in Summoner is EX Skydrop which is,I'm convinced, a cruel joke put in by NRS to laugh their asses off watching Quan players get blown up. On Dvorah you already gave her 50/50 with her EX grab.
 
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