What's new

General/Other - Shinnok History of Shinnok in MKX

True Grave

Giving The Gift Of Graves
Man this really is a simple matter. If BS had to get a nerf then nerf Dark Beam from +8 to +4...problem solved because now they'll have better guaranteed armor. Hell Spark is fine at +14, but if need be then make it +10 so they can armor easier...because we have to have an easy mode for EVERYTHING, RIGHT! What happened to the good old days of figuring out "how to win" as opposed to "I want easy wins"?!

Since day 1, all I wanted for Shinnok was an OH starter and to be safe on block when all 3 Hell Sparks were blocked. But also allow my opponent to armor after the second Hell Spark so they wouldn't complain about it being "too good". I was happy with everything else, but what is the point of fleshing out a game when NRS just gives whatever THEY think is necessary. Not what the community had found or voiced from countless hours of play. I mean, this is a company who can't even get their OWN in-game frame data right lol. It's like Bungie and Halo 3 all over again...THANKS BUNGIE!
 
I personally don't agree with the suggested Hell Spark change.

Also I will give all the respect to any Shinnok player that thinks "Wow what a great opportunity for me to throw out a b1" lol.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
STOP NERFING NECROMANCER DAMN IT

Just nerf Bone Shaper, it's the variation in question here.
 

Bad Genez

Green
Because they're good and mostly safe. And they all have good range, which is why they're good in footsies. And they aren't that slow, 16f start-up on far reaching or advancing normals is decent, especially when they are plus on block.
why would anyone throw out those slow normals as footsie tools?

f22 is good though
Gotta go with Juggs on here, 4 in particular. Huge range for a special cancellable normal (it IS special cancellable by the way) and it fucks with people so bad taking that giant, awkward looking boot to the face, only to realize that it also just opened them up for a fucking vortex, too.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I'm not a Shinnok main, I've been playing him recently since I feel like he covers Scorpion's holes well and vice versa, I could care less about the recent buffs, but as far as Bone Shaper regulation goes, I would personally make the Dark Beam minus and plus 13 on block and hit respectively. With those numbers, it would still be a good zoning projectile but can't be abused up close for free meter after blockstrings, and allows for a little more yomi after a restand on hit instead of just "hold this guaranteed low". Obviously it shouldn't be plus enough to guarantee every mixup option otherwise Impostor's stolen move dependent vortex will end up redundant.


I personally don't agree with the suggested Hell Spark change.

Also I will give all the respect to any Shinnok player that thinks "Wow what a great opportunity for me to throw out a b1" lol.
With the loss of regular F22 in Bone Shaper, B1 has it's uses here and there IMO. Jails into hellsparks on block, does well to catch jumpouts in close quarters, punishes negative moves with pushback (i.e. Bojutsu KJ's EX Bo Swing) etc.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
I basically want to talk about the progression of Shinnok in MKX and how the buffs/nerfs affected him.

Universal Buffs/Nerfs:
5/14/15

- Can now enhance Hell Sparks & Hell Blast on block.
- Away + 3 (Shin Kick) is now towards + 4 and he has a new away + 3 (Devious Heel "Overhead Starter)

6/23/15 - Adjusted several hitboxes to hit more consistently

7/2/15 - Hell Sparks / Hell Blast when enhanced is +14 on block (down from +24)

Imposter Buffs:
4/18/15
- He can now control the location of a stolen Goro Stomp.

5/14/15 - Now steals Dash Punch from Jax instead of Ground Pound.

Necromancer Buffs:
5/14/15
- Can now control the location of Judgment Smash & Judgment Fist.

6/23/15
- Adjusted tracking of Devil's Flick, Devil's Backhand, Summoned Fiend, & Summoned Slam
- Increased damage on Judgment Fist & Judgment Smash by 3
- Devil's Flick is no -8 on block (up from -4)

Boneshaper Buffs:
6/23/15

- Dark Beam is now a high block and +8 on hit (up from -14)
- Opponent can no longer techroll after Scepter Slam
- Deity combo (Towards + BP, BP, throw) can now be 2in1 cancelled on hit

_____________________________________________________________________________________

So, what made Boneshaper go from bottom to the top? First of all, the universal buffs really helped Shinnok overall. Getting an overhead starter was huge, but that's not a big reason why Boneshaper is dominant. Getting MB Hellspark on block was also needed, but they made it way too plus and then nerfed it a week later. It's still too plus, imo, but this buff affects all 3 variations.

Boneshaper and Imposter have been considered the best two variations since launch. I personally believed from the beginning that Boneshaper was the best variation he had, but I went back and forth on using both BS and Imposter. So the fact that Boneshaper got buffs and Imposter really didn't (the buffs he got in Imposter weren't really buffs, imo), is one of the reasons you only see Boneshaper Shinnok. BS was already arguably the best variation he had.

Anyway, the Dark Beam buff was warranted. Or rather, Dark Beam needed to be buffed as it was next to useless pre patch. It being +8 on hit is not too crazy of a buff. However, this buff combined with Deity now being 2in1 cancelable is what make these two buffs so good. Now you can do decent damage while being at + frames. Since Shinnoks low starter is 7 frames and you're at +8 after Dark Beam, it's guaranteed pressure. Add this plus MB Hellspark being +14 on block and Dark Beam being -4 on block, Shinnoks pressure is either safe or at advantage on hit or block.

No one really asked for all these buffs. We wanted an overhead starter, and to be able to MB Hellspark on block. Those were the main universal buffs we wanted. We didn't ask for MB Hellspark to be +24 or +14, just to be able to MB Hellspark on block and for it make us safe.

The reason I'm making this thread is to show all the buffs that lead to BS Shinnok being what it is today. Before the buffs, hardly anyone used him. I'm afraid that when gets nerfed after EVO, they will nerf things that don't need to be nerfed. What needs to be nerfed, if there's any nerfs at all, were the things that were buffed. Deity being 2in1 cancelable to me isn't necessary. However, I'm fine with keeping that if you nerf Dark Beam. Basically, one of them has to go, but not both. I think the best option actually is to nerf Dark Beam. +8 on hit, -4 on block is too good for a projectile that can be canceled from any string on block. What it means is that Shinnok will almost always be safe on block, which I'm obviously fine with (lol), but is too good.

Imposter and Necromancer are still decent, but they need help. Necromancer in particular is still not that great, way better than it was, but still not that great. While these two variations need some type of buffs, I feel Bonshaper needs some slight nerfs to what was buffed.

To be clear, I don't think any character in this game needs to be nerfed right now. There's been 2 patches within a month and I believe we need to let the game breathe. However, if they do decide to nerf Shinnok, these would be my suggestions.

My Shinnok nerfs:

Universal:
- MB Hellspark on block is now +5 on block (down from +14)

Boneshaper:
- Dark Beam is now -9 on block, and +2 on hit. (down from -4, and +8)

I'm not 100% sure what to buff with Imposter and Necromancer, so I'll just refrain from posting my suggestions.
I disagree that Shinnok needs nerfs at this point. Not sure about Imposter but Necromancer could be salvaged by giving his specials other than Hell Sparks a reason to be used. Because the tracking on Flick is still hilariously bad and ground hand is just lame since it's only purpose is to be MB'd in a combo.
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
Yeah I re-read this and am in agreeance with the Dark Beam nerf but at this point I feel like if Imposter gets nerfed again it'll be totally unwarranted. I think Imposter has some nice tools but you have to be able to utilize them all in order to be a great Imposter player.
 

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
Don't nerf anything. Let him rock for a while and see what happens and give people time to learn the MU. It's only been three months and this character has been on a roller coaster ride.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
I'll have to start using it, I only use it when I fuck up a hell sparks input lol
I pretty much used it when I didn't have any meter or anything just to have something to throw out besides d4. It's become somewhat obsolete because of all the better tools he has gotten but it's worth checking out just to have another tool in your back pocket
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Prepatch Shinnok had no oh starter, couldn't mb HS on block, dark beam was trash, and restand combo left you neutral. He was certainly bottom 5 prepatch.
 

Etoroguy

Why isn't Jax's Farm a playable stage?
I wouldn't call stealing Jax's dash punch a buff but okay. If they Nerf all of shinnok's variations then imposter should get some huge buffs. (These suggestions are not serious so just read and image how OP these would be)

Make mimicry +24 on block
Jason: now steals the tight squeeze command grab
Jax: now steals ground pound
Kenshi: now steals db1 (changes for whichever variation you are playing against)
Scorpion: now steals the enhanced version of the spear
Sub Zero: steals the enhanced version of sub zero's ice ball
Takeda: steals the enhanced version of bf2
Predator: steals the enhanced version of bf4
Johnny Cage: steals the enhanced version of bd3
Erron Black: steals his command grab
Liu Kang: steals db2
Raiden: steals the enhanced version of df2
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
I wouldn't call stealing Jax's dash punch a buff but okay. If they Nerf all of shinnok's variations then imposter should get some huge buffs. (These suggestions are not serious so just read and image how OP these would be)

Make mimicry +24 on block
Jason: now steals the tight squeeze command grab
Jax: now steals ground pound
Kenshi: now steals db1 (changes for whichever variation you are playing against)
Scorpion: now steals the enhanced version of the spear
Sub Zero: steals the enhanced version of sub zero's ice ball
Takeda: steals the enhanced version of bf2
Predator: steals the enhanced version of bf4
Johnny Cage: steals the enhanced version of bd3
Erron Black: steals his command grab
Liu Kang: steals db2
Raiden: steals the enhanced version of df2
Dude...he had Jax's Ground Pound day 1 and that was obviously busted for that matchup...and by everything else you're suggesting is just going to make him stupid for all the wrong reasons.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
I honestly think the only thing that needs changing in Bone Shaper is his projectile on block. If it was minus enough he would have to respect your button press on block, it would be totally fine IMO.

It'd mean Bone Shapers wouldn't be able to just beam everything on block and be in a good situation still.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I still think guaranteed f4 after MB hellspark on block should go...just make it like +8. Along with a slightly more disadvantageous dark beam on block. Then add some extra stuff to Imp and Necro to bring them up to BS.
 

Etoroguy

Why isn't Jax's Farm a playable stage?
L
Dude...he had Jax's Ground Pound day 1 and that was obviously busted for that matchup...and by everything else you're suggesting is just going to make him stupid for all the wrong reasons.
Lol I know I was just kidding. It's nice to see imposter got buffed though.