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Match-up Discussion - Grandmaster Huge Quan Chi Trance punish

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer

Notation:
Reversal ex statue, ji1, b12 xx shatter, d1, b12 xx ex ice blast, njp, jip, b12 xx slide 50%, 2 bars (or end with ... Shatter, d1, b12 xx slide 43%, 1 bar. 45% if started with b2).

Notes about this, you can b2, jip or run b12 after ex statue. Can replace b12 xx ex ice blast with 11 xx > freeze. I couldn't find a way to work around the clone cool down to get the meterless freeze(but if you needed it I bet you could jip, b12> standing reset shatter, then clone freeze). If you confirm Quan tries to punish with ex deep trance, you can use reversal normal clone to punish, making the whole combo meterless. You cannot ji1> b2, as only ji2> b2 combos from height.

You can do this to Ermac as well if he tries to punish b12 with telelift, anticipating clone. Why he'd do lift instead of teleport, idk but now you know. Haven't found anyone else this works against.
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
Nice! Better than using 3 bars for 47% xray combo. One bar for 45% is pretty good too. I wonder if it works against Scorps slide? Trance is -250 on block or whiff why it works I guess.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
For some reason, when trance would whiff, it recovered really fast. I had this happen with Cassie too, when the second hit of her ex glow kick would whiff she'd recover instantly.

I looked for other moves with this kind of recovery but found nothing really. Well Ermac lift, but he's never gonna do that.
 

RagingRicans

NetBattles
I found myself in this situation plenty of times. Cool discovery! Would the same work for shinnok? I have trouble punishing his trance
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
I cant test now.... Can you get reversal regular Clone off in time for anything? Like Clone into 1,2~Shatter?
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Yeah sometimes I get normal clone out of this, but it's rare.

I don't think Shinnok mimicry is as punishable unfortunately. But I've only looked at frame data, I haven't actually tested it. Might be able to do things like this through whiff punish, or f4 xx ex statue, f42 xx shatter. That combo has issues with spacing/ breathing hitboxes though.
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
Fuck I can't land the d1 after the ice shatter... I don't think this combo is practical online.
 
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RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
That's too bad. The b2 starter is a bit easier for the 1 bar/ 45%. I'm sure as time goes on, the combo will become easier.

Try s1, b12 xx freeze. Or just shatter > 11 xx freeze.
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
That's too bad. The b2 starter is a bit easier for the 1 bar/ 45%. I'm sure as time goes on, the combo will become easier.

Try s1, b12 xx freeze. Or just shatter > 11 xx freeze.
Somehow there isn't enough time to land any hit after shatter... But will keep trying till i get it right, though I don't think it's practical online.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Wait, you're trying this thing offline and can't land a hit after shatter? As far as shatter combos go, I wouldn't say this one is particularly difficult. I did it in the first take of an unedited video holding a phone with my feet... Twice lol. Keep at it, don't write it off just yet.
 

PND_Mustard

"More stealthful than the night"
Premium Supporter
@Madzin Check this out.

I'm assuming you can still end that combo in hard knockdown for the clone? Having Quan cornered with a clone in fornt of you is what annihilates him so it's definitely worth the clone over max damage.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
For some reason, when trance would whiff, it recovered really fast. I had this happen with Cassie too, when the second hit of her ex glow kick would whiff she'd recover instantly.

I looked for other moves with this kind of recovery but found nothing really. Well Ermac lift, but he's never gonna do that.
How bout Jason's power down? Not exactly much competitive niche for counter-tech there like baiting QC's trance, still curious if it works
 
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RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
@Madzin Check this out.

I'm assuming you can still end that combo in hard knockdown for the clone? Having Quan cornered with a clone in fornt of you is what annihilates him so it's definitely worth the clone over max damage.
I believe you can end with f12 in the (jip) b12 combo, but starting with b2 makes the second hit of f12 ender whiff. Maybe you could omit the jip in the njp, jip, f12 ended to make it work. There's a lot of wiggle room after the initial hit.

For anyone else testing, you can do this meterless if he uses ex deep trance, and can net a similar combo off f4 xx ex clone, f42 xx shatter for those characters that have punishable moves with less recovery (the f4 combo is harder).
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
@Madzin Check this out.

I'm assuming you can still end that combo in hard knockdown for the clone? Having Quan cornered with a clone in fornt of you is what annihilates him so it's definitely worth the clone over max damage.

37% Meterless - B2, B2, 1, 1, B12xxClone, NjP, JiP, F12

40% 1-Bar - EX-Clone, JiP, B12xxShatter, 1, F12

48% 2-Bars - EX-Clone, JiP, B12xxShatter, B12xxEX-Snowball, NjP, JiP, F12





These are your best options to punish a block QC trance into F12 if you have him in the corner.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
I tried this last night. The jip1 is tighter than it seems in the vid. But I only messed with it a few minutes. This is cool.

Since I don't play against humans, I have a couple of questions...

Are these situations (like b1,2 into nothing to bait out Trance) reactable with the block-stun in this game? In other words: could Quan Chi block b1,2, wait and see if Clone comes out, then decide to Trance or not?

Also, if f1,2 doesn't work after b2 into shatter... what about 1,1,2? If so, is 1,1,2 safe to lay a Clone? Like 1,1,2, backdash, Clone or something?
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
I'm pretty sure QC can trance on reaction to clone, he doesn't need to reversal trance, so yes he can pretty easily decide not to punish a clone that isn't there. More than likely, QC mains will be more cautious with raw trance or make rune their go to clone punish.

I didn't try 112 as an ender. I'll bet you could make it work though, at least against slower wake ups (not Reptile).
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
I'm pretty sure QC can trance on reaction to clone, he doesn't need to reversal trance, so yes he can pretty easily decide not to punish a clone that isn't there.
Sucks if thats the case. I like the idea of a mind-game between stopping at a negative string or laying the Clone.

Giving up your turn on a read to punish and/or waste the opponent's meter vs. walling your opponent off at the risk of a full-combo if they reversal.

Unfortunately, it seems like something cool like this Quan Chi punish (or even less creative punishes) won't be applicable.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Right? And yet, we see top level players making them applicable. Goes to show how powerful habits can be.

Unless I'm completely wrong and he needs reversal trance.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
How bout Jason's power down? Not exactly much competitive niche for counter-tech there like baiting QC's trance, still curious if it works
If you can get him into the corner, you can punish it with clone, meterless. Mind games gotta be on point though. I'd recommend rather going for jip>d2 for the 14+% if he's gonna hit you anyway.