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General/Other - Raiden Raiden General Discussion

.... well if it works, I've notice it whiffs quite often. You also risk being full combo punished when/if blocked. (notice I said when first) I was saying more of the lines of its harder to keep them guessing in those varies because B32 is gone. You gotta make sure you confirm that B3 either way. It helps to try mix it up with 21 pressure but that first 2 is a high so any character thats poke/roll/slide happier will be annoying.
Yes the 2 hitting mid makes it safe, as TG I usually go for it real soon, but in D I have to play mindgames with the delayed wakeupers and usually do it a little late/bait a wakeup
 

Cerebru

Noob
Yes, it gives you additional pressure but its not guaranteed its all about the next read. I don't like waking up personally. I feel confident in most match ups knowing where the holes are to avoid major chip damage. Bring on the next string.
 

Gruff757

The Gruff
after working on it for hours before and after work, i finally got my first LRC combo to connect.

The feels.
 

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
Right ok everyone calm your titts i have arrived. Furthermore will be posting raiden tech solutions for general and specific situations.

However something needs to be addressed before we move any further. Iv been watching diligently from the sidelines and i have to say i am a little 'shocked' that 5 months into the game we still have people asking about things like "how do you connect F12 (HOLD) B2 into DF2" i mean all you have to do is read earlier posts to see the questions had been previously asked and had been addressed but not a big deal the community is friendly enough to assist. But i would like to make a suggestion and would like to hear some feedback on what you guys think.
Perhaps we should separate the boys from the men ;) and have the beginner/ new to raiden FAQ's and combos separate from the advanced players discussion on the character. In doing so we can eliminate silly questions that having been through the beginners guide and discussion/tips wouldn't be asked in an advanced players forum. We could also focus on brand new tech/combos and set-ups that haven't been previously shown or discussed.
 

Cerebru

Noob
Right ok everyone calm your titts i have arrived. Furthermore will be posting raiden tech solutions for general and specific situations.

However something needs to be addressed before we move any further. Iv been watching diligently from the sidelines and i have to say i am a little 'shocked' that 5 months into the game we still have people asking about things like "how do you connect F12 (HOLD) B2 into DF2" i mean all you have to do is read earlier posts to see the questions had been previously asked and had been addressed but not a big deal the community is friendly enough to assist. But i would like to make a suggestion and would like to hear some feedback on what you guys think.
Perhaps we should separate the boys from the men ;) and have the beginner/ new to raiden FAQ's and combos separate from the advanced players discussion on the character. In doing so we can eliminate silly questions that having been through the beginners guide and discussion/tips wouldn't be asked in an advanced players forum. We could also focus on brand new tech/combos and set-ups that haven't been previously shown or discussed.
There is so much tech to be discussed. I thought @Chaosphere was gonna join me in some mirrors on xbl.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
With that being said, I was looking into some meaty ex thunderbolt setups, since I feel one of Raiden's weaknesses is his neutral (which I can expand on if anyone would like for me to explain). I have only played around but haven't found anything solid yet. Anyone found any safe ex thunderbolt setups? Is f12b2~ex thunderbolt in non TG variations safe?
 

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
With that being said, I was looking into some meaty ex thunderbolt setups, since I feel one of Raiden's weaknesses is his neutral (which I can expand on if anyone would like for me to explain). I have only played around but haven't found anything solid yet. Anyone found any safe ex thunderbolt setups? Is f12b2~ex thunderbolt in non TG variations safe?

Yes im pretty sure it is if you go into f1 straight after if they try and armour as its 2 hits or on a read you could even njp and get a 37/39% punish.
 

Cerebru

Noob
Yes im pretty sure it is if you go into f1 straight after if they try and armour as its 2 hits or on a read you could even njp and get a 37/39% punish.
Depends. Most characters can ex through the upcoming pressure. And Displacer doesn't build enough meters to waste for the set ups.
 

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
With that being said, I was looking into some meaty ex thunderbolt setups, since I feel one of Raiden's weaknesses is his neutral (which I can expand on if anyone would like for me to explain). I have only played around but haven't found anything solid yet. Anyone found any safe ex thunderbolt setups? Is f12b2~ex thunderbolt in non TG variations safe?
while raiden does have a weakness in the neutral, i find that using d4 helps me out a lot in that area, and I believe that d4 is an underused normal. But when you talk about f12b2, are you talking about doing f12b2 ex thunderbolt on block?
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
while raiden does have a weakness in the neutral, i find that using d4 helps me out a lot in that area, and I believe that d4 is an underused normal. But when you talk about f12b2, are you talking about doing f12b2 ex thunderbolt on block?
Sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant setups for Oki, so ex thunderbolt on knockdown, so I meant f12b2 ex thunderbolt on knockdown. D4 is very underused & good too
 

Cerebru

Noob
Sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant setups for Oki, so ex thunderbolt on knockdown, so I meant f12b2 ex thunderbolt on knockdown. D4 is very underused & good too
On knockdown it works sometimes is what I was saying or its more player dependent. Its very easy to react to which is why most high level raidens rather leaver there opponent standing. I incorporate ex ball after B14 to ensue I continue pressure if need be. If you ex bolt on knockdown your opponent can always hold down making you waste much need meter variable dependent of course.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
On knockdown it works sometimes is what I was saying or its more player dependent. Its very easy to react to which is why most high level raidens rather leaver there opponent standing. I incorporate ex ball after B14 to ensue I continue pressure if need be. If you ex bolt on knockdown your opponent can always hold down making you waste much need meter variable dependent of course.
So, what of true setups in TG since he can stop ex thunderbolt anywhere
 

Cerebru

Noob
So, what of true setups in TG since he can stop ex thunderbolt anywhere
The set up is basically the same situation. I hoped in stoping it would increase the chances of it being respected, but what it does gives you is a forward advancing safety net for a few frames. This is the part thats tricky. F1 is by far radien's best normal, this is the string you are going to wanna throw first upon your reckless frame trappy run ins lol. The best results I've found so far implement 21 FC and B12 FC into one of the respected B3 or B2 started for optimum or set up damage. All of this can be poked out of easily BTW so committing to stings will be crucial for later. Earlier in a another post I critizized someone for ending the pressure in B11 1+3, this is actually the way you going to go about setting this up making the proper reads involved as well. We all know that B11 1+3 gives you a pretty nice KD the problem is they can stay grounded or jump the bolt. If you stop it they still have a few options character specific. If they jump on reaction super man is a full screen anti air with the right spacing you should be close to the corner. No one can block in the air lol! If the stay grounded don't be fooled into thinking B2 it will wiff making you the dumbest looking playing to pick up the controller. Warning every ex bolt combo requires 2 to 3 bars of meters to extend with barely any damage scaling. Any AA combo will be optimal because the ball leaves the opponent airborne.. and the there is always b14 LC in those must win situation.
 
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Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
I don't know if you guys have listened to the latest KTP podcast, but there is an interesting discussion about Raiden in it. In a few words, Slips theorizes that Raiden is basically a 50/50 character (which is correct) and then there was some discussion about Dizzy using him in a different way at EGL, which was perhaps not optimal, and some other general Raiden talk. Here is the relevant segment (starts at 01:33:40):


I'd be curious to hear what the top Raiden players on TYM think about this.

@GGA Dizzy
@Digit
@Nivek
 

Cerebru

Noob
I don't know if you guys have listened to the latest KTP podcast, but there is an interesting discussion about Raiden in it. In a few words, Slips theorizes that Raiden is basically a 50/50 character (which is correct) and then there was some discussion about Dizzy using him in a different way at EGL, which was perhaps not optimal, and some other general Raiden talk. Here is the relevant segment (starts at 01:33:40):


I'd be curious to hear what the top Raiden players on TYM think about this.

@GGA Dizzy
@Digit
@Nivek
True..... Dizzy still has a great play style and was smart with reads so he did well. Yes Raiden is 50/50, but you can avoid it, and more time than not it actually cost you the match trying to play the character correctly. Especially with low hit box characters.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
I do think I was playing too safe, you can't play the chip game anymore since the dmg reduction on his lightning strings and if you hit a d3 you might as well b32 or b2 and hope they don't jump, backdash or armor it. Most people won't in my experience. Unfortunately, Salt face knew the MU pretty well, at least he knew that d3 was only +6 so raiden has no guarenteed follow up and he could ex roll.

I do think that raiden is great and players such as myself and digit are not using him to the fullest. I think digits play more resembles how raiden will be played as time goes on. I didn't play injustice that much but from what I understand shazam has to be a little crazy with risks in neutral, and digit embraced it and knew when to take those risks, and did very well. Raiden cannot beat many chars playing safe and defensive, IMO. Baiting armor and risky jumps is something that I like to do, but it often will reset the situation back to the neutral game if they don't do this, a situation that is unfavorable in many MUs. Raiden is currently a character where you have to press the advantage to the maximum at almost any situation, and only play safe when you have a really good read on your opponent becoming desperate.
 

Cerebru

Noob
I do think I was playing too safe, you can't play the chip game anymore since the dmg reduction on his lightning strings and if you hit a d3 you might as well b32 or b2 and hope they don't jump, backdash or armor it. Most people won't in my experience. Unfortunately, Salt face knew the MU pretty well, at least he knew that d3 was only +6 so raiden has no guarenteed follow up and he could ex roll.

I do think that raiden is great and players such as myself and digit are not using him to the fullest. I think digits play more resembles how raiden will be played as time goes on. I didn't play injustice that much but from what I understand shazam has to be a little crazy with risks in neutral, and digit embraced it and knew when to take those risks, and did very well. Raiden cannot beat many chars playing safe and defensive, IMO. Baiting armor and risky jumps is something that I like to do, but it often will reset the situation back to the neutral game if they don't do this, a situation that is unfavorable in many MUs. Raiden is currently a character where you have to press the advantage to the maximum at almost any situation, and only play safe when you have a really good read on your opponent becoming desperate.
This was said so perfect! You can throw after down 3 almost guaranteed!!!! .... And Your right F1 is def gonna wiff in that footsie battle with most characters. Like I said when they changed forward one.. Back to MK9 where ever character can low profile the hell out of you and there is nothing you can do but a very deep jump kick character specific of course. I've also seen a lot of Raiden Players give up their footsie for what they feel is a guaranteed mix up or more damage, Myself included. I've notice... TG is 50/50 while the other varies have there moment to shine, it is nothing close to playing as TG. BTW don't grab the ex-roll lol
 
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GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
TG raiden pressure- Think this might be genuine Raiden pressure not sure if its already been posted but its very spacing specific.
And stops heavy reliance on F1 also beats pokes.

F2 B11 LRC B11 DF2
on a read follow up with ex DF2 - if the opponent back dashes DB3 ex full combo punish.
 
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Cerebru

Noob
This was said so perfect! You can throw after down 3 almost guaranteed!!!! .... And Your right F1 is def gonna wiff in that footsie battle with most characters. Like I said when they changed forward one.. Back to MK9 where ever character can low profile the hell out of you and there is nothing you can do but a very deep jump kick character specific of course. I've also seen a lot of Raiden Players give up their footsie for what they feel is a guaranteed mix up or more damage, Myself included. I've notice... TG is 50/50 while the other varies have there moment to shine, it is nothing close to playing as TG.
TG raiden pressure- Think this might be genuine Raiden pressure not sure if its already been posted but its very spacing specific.
And stops heavy reliance on F1 also beats pokes.

F2 B11 LRC B11 DF2
on a read follow up with ex DF2 - if the opponent back dashes DB3 ex full combo punish.
Question will the b11 wiff?
 

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
Question will the b11 wiff?
If i remember correctly if you start the F2 while they are standing then if they try and poke they get hit - but if they duck before the F2 and you hit them ducking low on block you can be cheeky and go straight to the overhead because your F2 is +2 - and get them conditioned to blocking high and expecting that overhead then just go into the pressure
 

Cerebru

Noob
If i remember correctly if you start the F2 while they are standing then if they try and poke they get hit - but if they duck before the F2 and you hit them ducking low on block you can be cheeky and go straight to the overhead because your F2 is +2 - and get them conditioned to blocking high and expecting that overhead then just go into the pressure
Thanx. This may fix my whole problem.
 

BlackJackSnack

Bags of mostly water
Does anyone have an optimal combo for f1 used as an anti air?

I use f1 f2 21 bf3 for corner carry but it's not super consistent since the aa doesn't always hit where I want it to
 

infamy23

FireBeard
Does anyone have an optimal combo for f1 used as an anti air?

I use f1 f2 21 bf3 for corner carry but it's not super consistent since the aa doesn't always hit where I want it to
I usually do 1122[h] bf3 after the f1

Sometimes the 2nd lightning attack whiffs for some reason but it's pretty reliable.