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Strategy - Shinnok Shinnok matchup thread discussion

you can also do b3 drill and it combos. link isnt very tight
I like f4 drill because a lot of people fuzzy Shinnok and that just blows them up hard. I also do b3 f22 drill and follow er up with a f4 into mimicry. I just feel like Tanya is a lot easier to vortex than some of the cast!

Do you have any tips for Mileena?
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
I like f4 drill because a lot of people fuzzy Shinnok and that just blows them up hard. I also do b3 f22 drill and follow er up with a f4 into mimicry. I just feel like Tanya is a lot easier to vortex than some of the cast!

Do you have any tips for Mileena?
to be honest, im not entirely sure what "fuzzy" means in mk terms since "fuzzy" means something else in like literally every community lol. in capcom a fuzzy guard is a setup that causes a glitch where you have a standing hitbox while you're crouching and in 3d games its an option select where you duck a throw and block mid at the same time (loses to lows).

mileena you just gotta practice punishing her, almost everything she has is unsafe and just block on wakeup because she has a lot of multi hitting strings. make her come to you and don't try to open her up, force her to open you up and murder her for being wrong. dont know the matchup too well but thats how i go about it
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Tanya should be a lovely match up now lmao.

No glazing past hell sparks like they're not there -_-
 
Basically for Imposter, any character you can truly vortex is a hilarious match-up. Not like Erron where you get rid of the move before your mix-up, but like Quan Chi.
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
you just keep pushing him back when he gets too close with sparks and run away until he hangs himself. you can also keep him out with mimic because he can't punish it from a distance. also has a hard time dealing with teleports. if he gets to close do d4 xx sparks to push him back

You must only be playing Lackey's, Vicious has all the tools to foil your plan.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I'm working on a complete Shinnok MU guide. But it's gonna take some time, as I'm doing an all character all variation guide. Just a heads up.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
You must only be playing Lackey's, Vicious has all the tools to foil your plan.
played with grr twice in tournament we're even. the time he stuck with lackey all the way through he won. still say taht shinnok overall dominates that matchup by playing lame af

i also feel that boner shaper is needed for d'vorah and it does pretty well against her. her stinger normals can be tough to deal with without the f41d2 string and the scoop is really good for dealing with the puddle and bug when she tries to use them as zoning tools or in block strings. overall i feel like bonershaper goes pretty even with d'vorah.

i also feel that after the teleport nerf, tanya has a little bit of a tough time dealing with hellsparks. he gets pretty solid meterless vortex against her and has all the tools to deal with her in all 3 variations. just have to learn how rekkas work and where you can apply your offense. dragon naginata and pyromancer are pretty straight forward. in dragon naginata, whenever she goes into her pogo stance you can punish with njp unless she does another one frame perfect. there are a bunch of holes in her pogo pressure t hat allow you to air to air or njp. pyromancer i have the least experience against but from what i can tell, it seems like when she throws air fireballs you can run under and start applying your offense. they also are unsafe from up close. also keep in mind that after the purple dust on block shes -4 so you can check her there.
 

loogie

Noob
is it just me or does Kitana get a free jump THROUGH hellsparks midscreen!?!?! this is happening a lot, and Kitana is the culprit. not sure if it is the same with other female characters but I believe it's her jump arc+height and speed that get's her through the sparks.
and how do you guys find Bone Shaper vs Royal Storm matchup to be specific?
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
is it just me or does Kitana get a free jump THROUGH hellsparks midscreen!?!?! this is happening a lot, and Kitana is the culprit. not sure if it is the same with other female characters but I believe it's her jump arc+height and speed that get's her through the sparks.
and how do you guys find Bone Shaper vs Royal Storm matchup to be specific?
Yeah the arc and speed of her jump is weird. It hops the first spark or dodges it just in time. Imposter destroys her though, I'd put it at 6-4.
 

loogie

Noob
Yeah the arc and speed of her jump is weird. It hops the first spark or dodges it just in time. Imposter destroys her though, I'd put it at 6-4.
why does Impostor destroy her? and how would you play this matchup with Impostor? with Bone Shaper I have problems.
mimicry combos?
 
why does Impostor destroy her? and how would you play this matchup with Impostor? with Bone Shaper I have problems.
mimicry combos?
Mimicry combos. She gets put in an easy vortex. Also the teleport is a great way to catch her when she's throwing fans.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Yeah the arc and speed of her jump is weird. It hops the first spark or dodges it just in time. Imposter destroys her though, I'd put it at 6-4.
6-4 for impostor? That isn't destroying though lol.

Anyway I played Kitana only once a while ago and I felt it might be a problem for Bone Shaper. Can you guys elaborate more on that? How's the zoning trading wars? Can you EX Scoop her air fans? Or is the timing very strict?
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
6-4 for impostor? That isn't destroying though lol.

Anyway I played Kitana only once a while ago and I felt it might be a problem for Bone Shaper. Can you guys elaborate more on that? How's the zoning trading wars? Can you EX Scoop her air fans? Or is the timing very strict?
I use 6-4 for the MU's like Quan, Kitana, Kotal, where it's just a continuous "gee you better guess right" scenario that you can put your opponent in. I don't play BS though so iunno how to approach that MU.
 

loogie

Noob
Mimicry combos. She gets put in an easy vortex. Also the teleport is a great way to catch her when she's throwing fans.
about the teleport drop when she's doing air fans, you cannot do that on reaction or anything just on a read ... and you can easily be baited into it and be punished for a 40% off of an NJP (by Kitana)
I find Impostor actually a bad pick for Kitana, and getting better results with Bone Shaper, at least you can zone back if she decides to go full screen
 
erron black can be vortexed in the corner with relative ease.

after b+3: 22, anti air sand grenade, 112 mimicry
after f+4: hell spark 1 hit, mb, anti air sand grenade, njp, 112, mimicry

until then, keep using the whiffed move tech until you corner carry. it can get a bit tricky to transition once in the corner if you don't got the memorization down.

same goes with jax although i'm not sure how many mimicry plus frames you're left with after whiffing overhead bionic dash midscreen. i'm not sure can shinnok follow up overhead bionic dash like jax. if its possible it'll most likely be super hard like jax or maybe even harder.

but in corner, just use the raw overhead bionic dash as an overhead vortex starter or f+4 into overhead bionic dash for low starter.



against tanya and mileena, after a b+3 f+2 into stolen move is a lot more reliable than f+22 into stolen move.
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
So I'm going over all the MU's lately, I'm coming across a certain trend. If a character has an average stolen move, a solid rushdown game, and can punish Hell Sparks (optional), chances are they do great against Imposter Shinnok
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Doesn't every MU just go like this:

"D4 hell sparks, scythe string into amulet, more d4 hell sparks and maybe a dash of 16f overhead."

But really though I got a question. If I'm cornered by a shinnok, what do I do? D4 pushes them to a distance where hell sparks hits (maybe only the second blast) and I can't press any buttons. Idk if that's shinnok's safest pressure option but besides the mixups he has that's what I've noticed gives me trouble. I play SG kotal, Brawler Cassie and MoS Raiden mostly.
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
Doesn't every MU just go like this:

"D4 hell sparks, scythe string into amulet, more d4 hell sparks and maybe a dash of 16f overhead."

But really though I got a question. If I'm cornered by a shinnok, what do I do? D4 pushes them to a distance where hell sparks hits (maybe only the second blast) and I can't press any buttons. Idk if that's shinnok's safest pressure option but besides the mixups he has that's what I've noticed gives me trouble. I play SG kotal, Brawler Cassie and MoS Raiden mostly.
Are you talking about all variations of Shinnok?
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Are you talking about all variations of Shinnok?
I guess? Don't all 3 have the same basic pressure and mixups? I know necro has the unblockable but I figured he wouldn't that so close to me. Imposter has the teleport but those are easy to handle.
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
I guess? Don't all 3 have the same basic pressure and mixups? I know necro has the unblockable but I figured he wouldn't that so close to me. Imposter has the teleport but those are easy to handle.
Well, Raiden can punish any raw Hell Sparks with the Superfly move. And yeah if you get trapped in the corner, Bone Shaper players will try and bombard you with pressure up close. His Dark Beam is now -15 so check and see what you can punish with. After Shinnok burns a bar of meter for amulet strike or hell sparks, nothing he does after that is guaranteed so you can armour out. If you block the 2nd spark and the third spark whiffs, you can run in for a full combo punish.