Strategy - Commando I Think it's Time to Re-evaluate Commando

Just to be clear, what blockstrings in SF are there that have throw immunity? I was always under the impression if you stick out a normal, not a special move or jumping normal, or don't have tight enough pressure you will get snagged by a 2 frame grab?

I think my biggest gripe is strings having throw immunity. I could understand a special or something. Perhaps I have been ill-informed in SF and it bled over to Injustice/MKX

Zatoichi said:

So if the command throws whiffing on certain things is intentional, then they should do more damage. It would make up for the whiffing as well as the lack of combos.

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I remember them saying the Armored Command Grabs did 25% damage pre-release, and then upon release they brought it down. That surely would've been nice but I guess they deemed it too powerful.

"20%"
Only if you spend a bar of meter and they don't get their hitbox somewhat low or spend a bar themselves.

Youphemism said:

I mean it's not like everything beats grabs, there's not THAT much that's throw immune (as far as I know), but I guess it's a way of keeping grabs balanced. I mean having a move that beats out/outprioritizes every other move in the game that isn't armoured? That would sound a little OP and no doubt people would want it nerfed.

As for the Grundy thing he could cancel WC and potentially punish you, so maybe what Kano needs is walking corpse

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Yea I think that would have to be the trade off. If they had full priority then they can't be armor'd. Well technically they wouldn't have to be lol. Kinda like when Zangief gets close to you. There's nothing you can do but prejump out, but any string or poke gets you piledriven. I wish it worked like that across the board. Like maybe a backdash or jump beats it, but command grab beats normals and strings. But it'll never happen so it's a dream.

Instead, I can hope for command grab cancel pressure similar to that Grundy reference.

SaltShaker said:

Yea I think that would have to be the trade off. If they had full priority then they can't be armor'd. Well technically they wouldn't have to be lol. Kinda like when Zangief gets close to you. There's nothing you can do but prejump out, but any string or poke gets you piledriven. I wish it worked like that across the board. Like maybe a backdash or jump beats it, but command grab beats normals and strings. But it'll never happen so it's a dream.

Instead, I can hope for command grab cancel pressure similar to that Grundy reference.

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Only if command grab cancels are plus like Shadow Kick cancels. Because I want to have hilarious amounts of pressure
B13 xx BDF4 B13 xx DBF4 etc.

ETC AdmiralAugustus said:

Just to be clear, what blockstrings in SF are there that have throw immunity? I was always under the impression if you stick out a normal, not a special move or jumping normal, or don't have tight enough pressure you will get snagged by a 2 frame grab?

I think my biggest gripe is strings having throw immunity. I could understand a special or something. Perhaps I have been ill-informed in SF and it bled over to Injustice/MKX

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Most normals that leave you airborne aren't throwable at a certain point. Which essentially includes certain target combos.

Also, SF doesn't have legitimate tick setups that come from cancelling a fast poke into a command throw, nor do most other fighting games. So it's not easy to really judge MK with other fighting games. MK's command throws are actually really scary because they are so slow and can do this.

THTB said:

Most normals that leave you airborne aren't throwable at a certain point. Which essentially includes certain target combos.

Also, SF doesn't have legitimate tick setups that come from cancelling a fast poke into a command throw, nor do most other fighting games. So it's not easy to really judge MK with other fighting games. MK's command throws are actually really scary because they are so slow and can do this.

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Oh yeah that's right. Siberian Blizzard shit. Is Giefs s.lp spd not a tick throw? I see what you're saying, but I think they're just different ideas for tick throws, because, like you said, they operate much faster in SF whereas in MK they're slower and there is much more blockstun

1. Somebody in this thread as a Dragon Ball Xenoverse avatar. That's P. Cool.
2. I just wish they could make it so that I don't lose EVERY TRADE when I armor a command throw, only to receive armor from the other person. I have no idea how you'd do this, but There's nothing less fun than spending armor for 1% damage dealt to >1% Damage received.

ETC AdmiralAugustus said:

Oh yeah that's right. Siberian Blizzard shit. Is Giefs s.lp spd not a tick throw? I see what you're saying, but I think they're just different ideas for tick throws, because, like you said, they operate much faster in SF whereas in MK they're slower and there is much more blockstun

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MKX ticks work a lot differently from other FGs, it makes them good in tick situations but kinda garbage in almost every other situation. Going into the lab more with Commando Kano they have to get rid of being able to low profile CMD grabs, I don't understand why NRS designs things the way they do when it comes to grabs

NRS doesn't seem to know what direction to take with grapplers in MK, getting hit with a command grab doesn't seem huge in this game, not like in Injustice with Bane and sometimes Grundy, where you knew you were fucked. Instead you just have all these characters who happen to have a weak command grab on top of their other tools.

Ignoring the low profile problem, one big difference between MKX CMD Grabs & others is that in other games you genreally have the choice of getting big damage or oki off of them in some way. But seeing how you can't choose the strength of a special in this game they tried to go with some form of inbetween that just doesn't really work out. You don't get great oki off of CMD grabs in the game & the damage without bar is pretty blah.

haketh said:

Ignoring the low profile problem, one big difference between MKX CMD Grabs & others is that in other games you genreally have the choice of getting big damage or oki off of them in some way. But seeing how you can't choose the strength of a special in this game they tried to go with some form of inbetween that just doesn't really work out. You don't get great oki off of CMD grabs in the game & the damage without bar is pretty blah.

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Then I ask. would you sacrifice the 4% damage boost for greater Oki?

DougDFC said:

Then I ask. would you sacrifice the 4% damage boost for greater Oki?

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I was kinda speaking in general, COM Kano gets pretty solid oki on CMD grab. I would just maybe like to see the non EX one do a bit more damage myself.

Error said:

NRS doesn't seem to know what direction to take with grapplers in MK, getting hit with a command grab doesn't seem huge in this game, not like in Injustice with Bane and sometimes Grundy, where you knew you were fucked. Instead you just have all these characters who happen to have a weak command grab on top of their other tools.

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This got me thinking that grapplers are to MKX what shotguns are to COD games... unfortunate

cR Biohazard said:

This got me thinking that grapplers are to MKX what shotguns are to COD games... unfortunate

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Who is the Akimbo 1887 of MKX?

cR Biohazard said:

This got me thinking that grapplers are to MKX what shotguns are to COD games... unfortunate

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The last COD I played, the one that was the start of them getting too ridiculous and absurd, was the one where people were using some Super Run Speed perk with Unlimited Running and dual shotguns that killed you with one shot a whole building away.

I don't think these grapplers are that powerful lol.

@Youphemism, @SaltShaker

Ok guys I went into the lab and tested this whole throw immunity thing. I had KL sweep and then b321 and as I got up, I would wakeup ex command grab. I did this with every command grab character; jax, Kano, FT, goro, EB, Kotal, and Jason. My findings were that if I inputted the command as early as possible while KL did b321 then the ex command throw would whiff with everyone except Erron Black, Kotal Kahn, and Jason's bear hug. But if I delayed my input timing on wakeup everyone's command throw would work. Is this really the definition of "throw immunity" or is this another random NRS game exclusive factor? To me this seems like it is an issue that "can" be fixed since Kotal Kahn was given a buff in a previous patch to improve his command throw's effectiveness. So, thoughts guys?

ando1184 said:

@Youphemism, @SaltShaker

Ok guys I went into the lab and tested this whole throw immunity thing. I had KL sweep and then b321 and as I got up, I would wakeup ex command grab. I did this with every command grab character; jax, Kano, FT, goro, EB, Kotal, and Jason. My findings were that if I inputted the command as early as possible while KL did b321 then the ex command throw would whiff with everyone except Erron Black, Kotal Kahn, and Jason's bear hug. But if I delayed my input timing on wakeup everyone's command throw would work. Is this really the definition of "throw immunity" or is this another random NRS game exclusive factor? To me this seems like it is an issue that "can" be fixed since Kotal Kahn was given a buff in a previous patch to improve his command throw's effectiveness. So, thoughts guys?

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What? What kindaaaa...

Not what I expected, but it sounds like something that can be fixed if they put in the effort to do so. It isn't the same as the "breathing hitboxes", and I really don't think a few frames difference in your WU attack timing should decide whether your command grab whiffs or grabs the opponent.

SaltShaker said:

What? What kindaaaa...

Not what I expected, but it sounds like something that can be fixed if they put in the effort to do so. It isn't the same as the "breathing hitboxes", and I really don't think a few frames difference in your WU attack timing should decide whether your command grab whiffs or grabs the opponent.

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Me neither man, like I said earlier....poor programming.

ando1184 said:

Me neither man, like I said earlier....poor programming.

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Nah bruh, just level up.

DougDFC said:

Nah bruh, just level up.

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Lol

ando1184 said:

@Youphemism, @SaltShaker

Ok guys I went into the lab and tested this whole throw immunity thing. I had KL sweep and then b321 and as I got up, I would wakeup ex command grab. I did this with every command grab character; jax, Kano, FT, goro, EB, Kotal, and Jason. My findings were that if I inputted the command as early as possible while KL did b321 then the ex command throw would whiff with everyone except Erron Black, Kotal Kahn, and Jason's bear hug. But if I delayed my input timing on wakeup everyone's command throw would work. Is this really the definition of "throw immunity" or is this another random NRS game exclusive factor? To me this seems like it is an issue that "can" be fixed since Kotal Kahn was given a buff in a previous patch to improve his command throw's effectiveness. So, thoughts guys?

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Do you think it has to do with their startup frames?

Youphemism said:

They already do like 20% damage, JESUS MAN CALM DOWN. Then again command grabs that hit for more than your combos do...

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Jason has an EX special that does 22% damage.

Kano's grabs do 16% and 17%, it's only 19% and 20% if you spend meter, that's only if it doesn't whiff or trade. Jason's EX Command Grabs do 19% sure, but he gets damage buffs in both Unstoppable and Relentless as well as ways to launch opponents midscreen for combos. Sun God Kotal's Command Grab does 19% meterless max, he also has ways to launch midscreen and can do 34% to 37% meterless combo ending with his command grab.

All I'm asking for is a 2% to 3% damage increase on his normal and EX command grabs. Well, that, and that his 32 string in commando do 10% damage like Cutthroat and Cybernetic. I'm not asking for an overhead, I'm not asking for a launching string, I'm not even asking for more tick throws. All I'm asking for Commando is a tad more damage to make up for not having big combo potential, many tick throws, and overheads.

ando1184 said:

@Youphemism, @SaltShaker

Ok guys I went into the lab and tested this whole throw immunity thing. I had KL sweep and then b321 and as I got up, I would wakeup ex command grab. I did this with every command grab character; jax, Kano, FT, goro, EB, Kotal, and Jason. My findings were that if I inputted the command as early as possible while KL did b321 then the ex command throw would whiff with everyone except Erron Black, Kotal Kahn, and Jason's bear hug. But if I delayed my input timing on wakeup everyone's command throw would work. Is this really the definition of "throw immunity" or is this another random NRS game exclusive factor? To me this seems like it is an issue that "can" be fixed since Kotal Kahn was given a buff in a previous patch to improve his command throw's effectiveness. So, thoughts guys?

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Well the grabs all have different active frames, recovery, etc so they would have different properties so that works properly. You can't just say it's bad programming when you don't know how it's programmed, it's just how the grabs work in this game. Different games' grabs have different amounts of throw immunity. Kotal Kahns grab was just given an extended hitbox so that's not really the same. I'm surprised throw immunity isn't a thing in Tekken since it sounds like it's a universal thing from what haketh is saying or if it is a thing that it's pretty much useless, do people not complain about how powerful throws/grabs are?

Zatoichi said:

Jason has an EX special that does 22% damage.

Kano's grabs do 16% and 17%, it's only 19% and 20% if you spend meter, that's only if it doesn't whiff or trade. Jason's EX Command Grabs do 19% sure, but he gets damage buffs in both Unstoppable and Relentless as well as ways to launch opponents midscreen for combos. Sun God Kotal's Command Grab does 19% meterless max, he also has ways to launch midscreen and can do 34% to 37% meterless combo ending with his command grab.

All I'm asking for is a 2% to 3% damage increase on his normal and EX command grabs. Well, that, and that his 32 string in commando do 10% damage like Cutthroat and Cybernetic. I'm not asking for an overhead, I'm not asking for a launching string, I'm not even asking for more tick throws. All I'm asking for Commando is a tad more damage to make up for not having big combo potential, many tick throws, and overheads.

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That's great but what has it to do with Kanos grabs? Lol

"only if it doesn't whiff or trade" oh come on, obviously I'm talking about if it hits. And you barely see the damage buffs used (unless you're talking about Relentless doing mroe damage the less health he has in which case nvm). Also launchers have nothing to do with his grabs sooooo

I mean that's fine, I thought you meant like 10% more or something lol. But Kano doesn't do as much combo damage on purpose, he's a grappler so his damage comes form his 20% tick throws. It's just unfortunate that he doesn't have many.

Youphemism said:

Well the grabs all have different active frames, recovery, etc so they would have different properties so that works properly. You can't just say it's bad programming when you don't know how it's programmed, it's just how the grabs work in this game. Different games' grabs have different amounts of throw immunity. Kotal Kahns grab was just given an extended hitbox so that's not really the same. I'm surprised throw immunity isn't a thing in Tekken since it sounds like it's a universal thing from what haketh is saying or if it is a thing that it's pretty much useless, do people not complain about how powerful throws/grabs are?

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No people don't complain about throws doing high damage in Tekken. I honestly haven't heard of any complaints in Street Fighter or KOF for that matter either. Throw immunity doesn't seem to be at work here man, I even stated that if you delay your inputs for the wakeup ex command throw it "works." As in KL got thrown out of his b321 string. If the string was intentionally made to be throw immune, don't ya think it would consistently make the command throws whiff no matter when the command throw was executed? And how does it explain why EB and Kotal's command throws don't whiff?