grabs beating pokes! game design or bug?

looks like it's time to start throwing more!

coolwhip said:

Umm, everyone knows who Riu48 is. He was a consistent top 8 placer in MK9.

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Is your sarcasm detector broken?

RM_Gamer said:

Is your sarcasm detector broken?

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No body cares about the 1984 Olympics.

Yeah

Rude said:

It isn't a viable pressure option if you poke in between staggers. Or duck the high jabs. Or armor. Or block breaker. Or play better footsies and not find yourself in that situation.

Even if you did 1,1, throw, as an example. I could backdash after the 1,1, or duck, or armor, or duck the 1,1 if it's a high and poke during the recovery frames.

So no, it's not bad game design. You just need to play better footsies or make better reads.

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Thankfully I dont end up in these often. But I do take advantage of it because it is an actual utility in this game. It upsets me that it works on anyone, no matter the skill. This broke-assery was even used in evo. So to simply throw out any statement as a fix doesn't cut it. When you have the hosts using words like, gimmick and shenanigans, you know ssomething is obviously wrong here

LeVL uP said:

Yeah

Thankfully I dont end up in these often. But I do take advantage of it because it is an actual utility in this game. It upsets me that it works on anyone, no matter the skill. This broke-assery was even used in evo. So to simply throw out any statement as a fix doesn't cut it. When you have the hosts using words like, gimmick and shenanigans, you know ssomething is obviously wrong here

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Wow. You completely missed the point.

I wasn't throwing out any statement. I was debunking your scenario by pointing out the many different ways you can escape.

There is nothing wrong with throws in this game. Instead of being useless and an afterthought, they actually serve a purpose.

People act like throws are 100% free damage with no chance of escape. It's ridiculous.

Did you not read his Username?

Rude said:

Wow. You completely missed the point.

I wasn't throwing out any statement. I was debunking your scenario by pointing out the many different ways you can escape.

There is nothing wrong with throws in this game. Instead of being useless and an afterthought, they actually serve a purpose.

People act like throws are 100% free damage with no chance of escape. It's ridiculous.

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Referring to grabs grabbing crouched non-blocking opponents when they shouldn't, according to the in-game text. It doesn't make sense for a person using a crouching attack to be counted as a standing oppenent. Expose the mistakes instead of putting makeup on them and making them look pretty. If you grab an oppenent using d1, you made the mistake of grabbing that crouched oppenent and you should have to pay for it. Simple

Once again, guys please play other fighting games before saying something is broken. It was explained that you are extending your hurtbox while attacking.

LeVL uP said:

Referring to grabs grabbing crouched non-blocking opponents when they shouldn't, according to the in-game text. It doesn't make sense for a person using a crouching attack to be counted as a standing oppenent. Expose the mistakes instead of putting makeup on them and making them look pretty. If you grab an oppenent using d1, you made the mistake of grabbing that crouched oppenent and you should have to pay for it. Simple

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Rude said:

No. Just...no.

Because real life martial artists can launch their opponents in the air and juggle them with punches 30 times before they hit the ground.

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Don't get it confused. I understand there are no real life fireballs or teleports or even juggles, and I'm not for removing these things from games. These things are a part of the fiction of games - and this fiction is part of what makes games great. In no way am I saying remove these aspects.

What I'm pointing to is in terms of progressing the game forward and making the game a deeper and more rewarding experience - and the best way to do this, IMO, is with aspects that exist in the real world. As the tech gets better, so will the competition. NRS doesn't need to re-invent the wheel, but they do need to keep progressing. I think NRS has already proven to be progressive in their endeavors looking at where they have been and where they are today.

There are also realistic aspects to the game. Kung Lao's strings are real Wing Chun techniques. Reptile's moves are right from Hung Gar and Dragon forms. Raiden's attacks are directly from the Southern Shaolin Tiger-Crane form. What I'm suggesting is that they apply similar realism to defense by adding an aggressive defense with hitboxes and use their knowledge of fighting forms to understand how they'll make them work - in terms of frame data and hitboxes. This is just a suggestion and I'm not sure if it will ever even receive consideration, but I know that NRS will continue to add depth through realism as they find new ways and continue to release games.

TopTierHarley said:

Once again, guys please play other fighting games before saying something is broken. It was explained that you are extending your hurtbox while attacking.

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I play street fighter also but nowhere does it say that you cant grab a crouching non-blocking oppenent. I get it in street fighter and how the hit/hurtboxes work. In street fighter you can be grabbed no matter what unless you encounter grab invincible frames/moves. I also play tekken where you have directional grabs so this conversation is completely non-existent in tekken forums. I play other fighters and follow the games rules but in mkx the rules are broken in certain situations such as...

Some good info here guess ill start using this if it works most of the time

Can't tell you how many times I've read someone will do run up, grab, and I try to d4 and get grabbed out mid animation.

LeVL uP said:

I play street fighter also but nowhere does it say that you cant grab a crouching non-blocking oppenent. I get it in street fighter and how the hit/hurtboxes work. In street fighter you can be grabbed no matter what unless you encounter grab invincible frames/moves. I also play tekken where you have directional grabs so this conversation is completely non-existent in tekken forums. I play other fighters and follow the games rules but in mkx the rules are broken in certain situations such as...

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The rules aren't broken.

What part of, "you are extending your hurtbox and getting grabbed because of it" do you not understand?

And no, I'm not, "putting make up" on an allegedly broken design, because it's not broken.

Instead of bitch, pissing, and moaning about it, I'm looking for ways around it.

That's how you improve.

You can backdash a throw attempt.

You can armor it.

Or...

And this MUST be a foreign concept...

Take the guess and at least ATTEMPT to tech the throw.

Or make condescending posts that add nothing of value to the discussion while shitting on the game.

Whatever.

LeVL uP said:

I play street fighter also but nowhere does it say that you cant grab a crouching non-blocking oppenent. I get it in street fighter and how the hit/hurtboxes work. In street fighter you can be grabbed no matter what unless you encounter grab invincible frames/moves. I also play tekken where you have directional grabs so this conversation is completely non-existent in tekken forums. I play other fighters and follow the games rules but in mkx the rules are broken in certain situations such as...

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How can something be broken if it's intentional. You guys really freak out about minor things in this game for no reason. So what throws are strong, let them be. It always seems to be a glitch when something isn't what you guys are used to.

Rude said:

The rules aren't broken.

What part of, "you are extending your hurtbox and getting grabbed because of it" do you not understand?

And no, I'm not, "putting make up" on an allegedly broken design, because it's not broken.

Instead of bitch, pissing, and moaning about it, I'm looking for ways around it.

That's how you improve.

You can backdash a throw attempt.

You can armor it.

Or...

And this MUST be a foreign concept...

Take the guess and at least ATTEMPT to tech the throw.

Or make condescending posts that add nothing of value to the discussion while shitting on the game.

Whatever.

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I haven't read or made any condescending posts. Maybe you're taking it wrong and are angry at someone else, who knows. But anyway... in the meanwhile ill continue to get grabbed out of attacks by you with a smile on my face because that's what im supposed to do right? Btw most grab techs are accidental and performed by poke mashing against pressure. Not like the street fighter reads or the tekken obvious grab from kissing range.

LeVL uP said:

I haven't read or made any condescending posts. Maybe you're taking it wrong and are angry at someone else, who knows. But anyway... in the meanwhile ill continue to get grabbed out of attacks by you with a smile on my face because that's what im supposed to do right? Btw most grab techs are accidental and performed by poke mashing against pressure. Not like the street fighter reads or the tekken obvious grab from kissing range.

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I tech grab a lot on reaction because I'm always ready to do it. Attacking is like a second block button for me. I also throw a ton and guys that complain about it just get thrown more and more. Those that jump or back-dash force me to do something else. It may sound like I'm being condescending, but that's not my intent. I'm just speaking from my experience.

Some characters can low profile throws with D3's or D4's. It varies from character to character though. Cassie comes immediately to mind. She is tough to throw when the person playing her is prepared.

LeVL uP said:

Throws are just plain bad in this game. 1,1 pause, 1,1 pause, d3, d3, 1,1, grab should not be a viable pressure option lol. Thats a complete joke. Its just lazy development to have to succumb to and or completely be overpowered by some of these insane blockstring/meter building characters with the additional option to grab your attack while you try to fight your way out of complete destruction. Lol that's pretty funny. Meter management means nothing when you cant gain any

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.......Pretty much every FG has this as a viable pressure tactic, hence why you see things like Jab, walk, Jab throw into frametrap

GAV said:

I tech grab a lot on reaction because I'm always ready to do it. Attacking is like a second block button for me. I also throw a ton and guys that complain about it just get thrown more and more. Those that jump or back-dash force me to do something else. It may sound like I'm being condescending, but that's not my intent. I'm just speaking from my experience.

Some characters can low profile throws with D3's or D4's. It varies from character to character though. Cassie comes immediately to mind. She is tough to throw when the person playing her is prepared.

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Im big on throwing as well. I only replied to let the original poster know that someone was aware of his thoughts. We've all been there scratching our heads like he is now. I very rarely encounter what he's going through but I do and I will admit that. If this game was perfect then nrs wouldn't be in such a mad dash to patch/hotfix every issue for the pro's. Pick a top players character or fail at mkx and watch as the community shrinks even more do to lack of possibility in diversity...

Rude said:

The rules aren't broken.

What part of, "you are extending your hurtbox and getting grabbed because of it" do you not understand?

And no, I'm not, "putting make up" on an allegedly broken design, because it's not broken.

Instead of bitch, pissing, and moaning about it, I'm looking for ways around it.

That's how you improve.

You can backdash a throw attempt.

You can armor it.

Or...

And this MUST be a foreign concept...

Take the guess and at least ATTEMPT to tech the throw.

Or make condescending posts that add nothing of value to the discussion while shitting on the game.

Whatever.

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you are not getting grab because you are standing your hurt box as you attack here is proof
Mortal Kombat X grab vs mid:

@coolwhip If only grabs were like this in mk9. Kung lao would have been top 2 only after kabal.

LeVL uP said:

I haven't read or made any condescending posts. Maybe you're taking it wrong and are angry at someone else, who knows. But anyway... in the meanwhile ill continue to get grabbed out of attacks by you with a smile on my face because that's what im supposed to do right? Btw most grab techs are accidental and performed by poke mashing against pressure. Not like the street fighter reads or the tekken obvious grab from kissing range.

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They don't have to be accidental. You can practice throw teching.

And no, no one said you just get thrown out of pressure with a smile on your face.

Do you even pay attention? Every post I've done toward you has discussed the many, many ways around throws in this game. Pay attention.

Evil_Riu48 said:

you are not getting grab because you are standing your hurt box as you attack here is proof
Mortal Kombat X grab vs mid:

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That's not what i said.

Read more clearly. I said you are getting grabbed because you are extending your hurtbox when throwing out an attack.

Which is what happened at the end of the video.

Lao threw out a grab and caught Cassie's extended hurtbox from throwing out a poke.

I'll check out the video in a few as I'm streaming.. but if someone pokes and you try grabbing..

duck=can't be grabbed.. poke low profiles kinda the same thing.

LeVL uP said:

Im big on throwing as well. I only replied to let the original poster know that someone was aware of his thoughts. We've all been there scratching our heads like he is now. I very rarely encounter what he's going through but I do and I will admit that. If this game was perfect then nrs wouldn't be in such a mad dash to patch/hotfix every issue for the pro's. Pick a top players character or fail at mkx and watch as the community shrinks even more do to lack of possibility in diversity...

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No game worth a d@mn is ever perfect.

Perfection requires absolute simplicity.

If it shrinks, so be it. Those that quit either don't really like it or aren't thick skinned enough to handle adversity.

Either way, as far as I'm concerned - good riddance.

I may be very wrong on this and if so, I kindly ask for corrections:

I think you can only get thrown out of the start-up frames of a poke, not during the active ones. As a result in a "neutral" situation (neither player has a frame advantage) 6f or 7f pokes will still beat 10f throws. They are simply faster and beat the throws before they even have a chance to become active. So throws are NO option during traditional pokewars.

This whole "grab-during-a-poke"-thing can hardly be done on purpose, unless it is used in combination with some sort of frametrap. Like after a string that is like +2 on block. This again might be a quite legit option.