General/Other - Hat Trick Kung Lao Hat Trick Variation General Discussion

Mykal NS said:

Set Cassie or reptile to their reveral and use low hat call back after a string and enjoy your meterless free pressure! This is amazing.

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AI wont do a reversal after a crouch blocked move, she can flip kick outta that no problem

A F0xy Grampa said:

AI wont do a reversal after a crouch blocked move, she can flip kick outta that no problem

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I think he means after you block the Flipkick, you call the Hat back and thanks to the launch you can punish it into a combo, one of the most notoriously hard to punish moves in the game and you can safely set up the hat on plenty of strings too. I think that's what he's referring to anyway.

I GOT HANDS said:

I think he means after you block the Flipkick, you call the Hat back and thanks to the launch you can punish it into a combo, one of the most notoriously hard to punish moves in the game and you can safely set up the hat on plenty of strings too. I think that's what he's referring to anyway.

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F0xy means that Low HCB is reversal punished and not safe.
There is a bug that AI won't reversal some lows unless you change the block settings to stance and put the AI ducking.

Eddy Wang said:

F0xy means that Low HCB is reversal punished and not safe.
There is a bug that AI won't reversal some lows unless you change the block settings to stance and put the AI ducking.

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I know that, but I think the guy he's responding to is talking about something else

EDIT: or maybe he's not. the english wasn't that great and I may have misunderstood

Recently took interest in hat trick. Why is Lao's MB Hat toss second hit a high? It would have lead to some awesome pressure string.

llabslb said:

Recently took interest in hat trick. Why is Lao's MB Hat toss second hit a high? It would have lead to some awesome pressure string.

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If it was and if it had plus frames it would probabaly be the same as ex hat spin and that would kinda beat the whole point of it being another variation.

It should be a mid on the way back too. Especially since I think there's a huge gap between when you throw the hat and when it comes back. It's useless unless it hits

The PantyChrist said:

It should be a mid on the way back too. Especially since I think there's a huge gap between when you throw the hat and when it comes back. It's useless unless it hits

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It's still a good tool for controlling tempo and instantly winning a projectile war while being completely safe, so it's not useless, and a lot better than almost every other blocked EX-Projectile other than a few, I'll trade like a percentage of chip for full positioning control any day. It's also definitely top 3 projectiles on hit with probably only Soul Ball being better, and has incredible synergy with our toolkit because it's visually challenging to distinguish from a forward Hat Trap. I think if we are going to suggest ways to improve Hat Trick I can think of a couple, but if don't think Hatarang needs any real changes (although I wouldn't complain about it hitting mid on the way back on block, I just don't think this is an aspect or tool that really needs any improvement at all).

What I'd much rather see the scaling turned down on Hat Callback, so that these really difficult conversions (which is to say, every single one of them is super high execution) are rewarded a little bit, and successfully pulling off BIG set ups like extending a fullscreen wallcarry combo with a Hat Callback in the middle of it, didn't often net me the SAME or LESS damage than if I'd have just kept the Hat on my head the entire time, and much much less than playing Tempest, it just feels like I'm being punished for doing it right.

I agree on the scaling. But if you're really having that much trouble converting then just keep them grounded before throwing it. Use f21 or f23 hatarang 44

The PantyChrist said:

I agree on the scaling. But if you're really having that much trouble converting then just keep them grounded before throwing it. Use f21 or f23 hatarang 44

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I'm talking about for calling back a Hat Trap, not sure what you mean with that

The scaling on callback isn't the worst thing, but 27% meterless off of B22 and 34% for a bar could definitely be improved on if they want to make it as competitive as the other variations.

Youphemism said:

The scaling on callback isn't the worst thing, but 27% meterless off of B22 and 34% for a bar could definitely be improved on if they want to make it as competitive as the other variations.

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Well, that would also be improved by the scaling

But that being said, I guess the rewards on a succesful Hat Callback conversion is pretty good, 25% or whatever. Maybe just improving the gravity and making the launch more floaty. That way you could convert B321 off B22, and off regular Hat Callback, and mid combo where you usually need to use 4. All these things would be enough for me.

I GOT HANDS said:

I'm talking about for calling back a Hat Trap, not sure what you mean with that

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Dude just posted a vid asking about hatarang. That's what I was answering. Ex hat throw

The only thing i don't like in Hat Trick is the above trap, that move is so useless because the hat is placed exactly above Lao's head and there is no way to place slightly in front of him with an additional command like the front and away traps, which of course i now use constantly to setup my 50-50s and bluffs

Other than that, i don't think Hat Trick needs any more changes, its one of the most versatile variations, that the weakest matchups of him are the ones with fast teleports, and that is counting all scorpion's variations, ermacs, and maybe raiden.

He has it all, good damage, reset, oki, 50-50s even if is not much of a evidence, but definitely there, his standing 1 anti-airs which places him on the ones with better normals for it.

You can actually concert in the corner with up hat trap. I was fucking with it in the corner but it might be enough to bait and punish unsafe wus. 44 4hcb will hit. 112124 May as well?

The PantyChrist said:

You can actually concert in the corner with up hat trap. I was fucking with it in the corner but it might be enough to bait and punish unsafe wus. 44 4hcb will hit. 112124 May as well?

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The hat goes back to Lao's head, if anyone is not in between the hat and Lao, the Hat call back from above trap will not be hitting anyone

Even the regular hat trap is more dangerous because the hat follows you anywhere you go, so if you jump after you call the hat from a very long distance, the hat will follow your tragectory and catch anyone who is on its way back.

High hat trap is pretty useless I've been messing with this variation since launch and haven't found a scenario where it would be useful.

I've gone as far as using it as a AA on cross ups but the inputs required make it far too slow to be an effective AA. It works a few times but it's much easier to use spin or jab or just block.

One thing I did notice is that you can throw out a fast poke like d4 throw it up throw out another poke and call it back to build meter while still being safe.

This is very gimmicky but It's better than nothing

I think high hat trap is worthless too. Just saying it works in the corner. 44, 4 hcb

Also it can be used to someone who only kind of knows the mu. Like they have to know he can't spin with it and not know he can convert into great damage if they wake up with something unsafe

Eddy Wang said:

The only thing i don't like in Hat Trick is the above trap, that move is so useless because the hat is placed exactly above Lao's head and there is no way to place slightly in front of him with an additional command like the front and away traps, which of course i now use constantly to setup my 50-50s and bluffs

Other than that, i don't think Hat Trick needs any more changes, its one of the most versatile variations, that the weakest matchups of him are the ones with fast teleports, and that is counting all scorpion's variations, ermacs, and maybe raiden.

He has it all, good damage, reset, oki, 50-50s even if is not much of a evidence, but definitely there, his standing 1 anti-airs which places him on the ones with better normals for it.

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Good damage? His damage is some of the worst in the game unless you get 44 or something lol. I mean you don't reach 30% meterless midscreen and you get mid 30s for a bar which is below average. And what 50/50s? B2 and...what? I think he can really lack without his hat sometimes.

Youphemism said:

Good damage? His damage is some of the worst in the game unless you get 44 or something lol. I mean you don't reach 30% meterless midscreen and you get mid 30s for a bar which is below average. And what 50/50s? B2 and...what? I think he can really lack without his hat sometimes.

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He gets over 30% meterless when he combo with the hat out, if this lao gets a damage buff he will be stupid broken, and Lao is a versatile characters with some good tools.

I think a lot of the things that make this variations suffer are things that if they were adjusted would make tempest and buzzsaw BROKEN. Could you imagine either of them being able to spin without a hat on his head? Or a kung Lao damage buff on tempest? This variation will always be outshined by the other 2

The PantyChrist said:

I think a lot of the things that make this variations suffer are things that if they were adjusted would make tempest and buzzsaw BROKEN. Could you imagine either of them being able to spin without a hat on his head? Or a kung Lao damage buff on tempest? This variation will always be outshined by the other 2

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I currently believe Hat Trick is better than Buzzsaw, the problem is that ppl never played a lao like this before, and think he is garbo.

Is as i've been saying, Hat Trick doesn't randomly stays without his hat out of the head without good reasons, There is always a layer behind every hat trap, ppl just don't know what are without playing the character extensively, Tempest is more easy and has a god neutral, Buzzsaw has easy low OH mixups, Hat Trick is just complex afk

If Hat Trick gets able to spin without his hat he will be broken IMO.

Eddy Wang said:

He gets over 30% meterless when he combo with the hat out, if this lao gets a damage buff he will be stupid broken, and Lao is a versatile characters with some good tools.

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Yeah with the hat out but why would you have your hat out all the time? You lose armour and your best anti-air/combo move(s). I really don't think giving him a boost so he matches his other variations or at least the average would make him broken. I mean a 3% max increase in damage would just make it better, not broken.

Eddy Wang said:

I currently believe Hat Trick is better than Buzzsaw, the problem is that ppl never played a lao like this before, and think he is garbo.

Is as i've been saying, Hat Trick doesn't randomly stays without his hat out of the head without good reasons, There is always a layer behind every hat trap, ppl just don't know what are without playing the character extensively, Tempest is more easy and has a god neutral, Buzzsaw has easy low OH mixups, Hat Trick is just complex afk

If Hat Trick gets able to spin without his hat he will be broken IMO.

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F0xy's been saying this too and I don't get it. Buzzsaw has better mixups, does more damage, and arguably better setups. Hat Trick might have SLIGHTLY safer pressure (ie 2 frames safer or something) but it suffers without the hat because he loses his overhead mixup/starter whereas Buzz Saw at least eventually gets it back even if there's another one on screen.

Why do you think it's better?

The PantyChrist said:

I think a lot of the things that make this variations suffer are things that if they were adjusted would make tempest and buzzsaw BROKEN. Could you imagine either of them being able to spin without a hat on his head? Or a kung Lao damage buff on tempest? This variation will always be outshined by the other 2

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Hat trick is better than buzz saw IMO.

It has a very injustice style game plan and best used against characters that the backdash works against.

Has some tempest like pressure options, if ex hat call back had armour or 112124 hat trap was +2 or +3 on block, then we'd be talking business.