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Breakthrough - Kano FINALLY, The Kano Community Speaks Up. Save Kano's Relevance With Needed Fixes And Reasonable Buffs

DFC

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
SaltShaker said:
When you were saying how good you think HQT Predator might be, I was initially a little skeptical. Now? I 100% agree. This truly is the promise land we have all heard of so often.



Please don't tell me you're a John Cena fan lol. That would change everything!
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Big Match John has been bringing the heat these past few months.

Still don't like him worth a shit. It's all about that King of Swing Cesaro
 
Zatoichi

Zatoichi

Fabulous Goofball
I think Kano is a Solid character, I really do. He just needs fixes and small tweaks. My 3rd draft of changes for Kano.

Universal
  • 112 string has a slightly increased vertical hitbox. It will no longer whiff on certain crouch blocking characters.
  • Up Ball has a decreased hurtbox, giving it priority over air attacks. (It will now beat Kung Jin's NJP, Scorpions air kick, etc) Up Ball is something that NEEDS to make jump happy players think twice about jumping in on Kano. Kano NEEDS something to make players respect him and play by HIS game for once. I've had it happen WAY too many times where even MB Up Ball was getting beat out by shit like Kung Jin's NJP and Scorpion's air attacks, no way should that happen in my opinion.
  • b13 now does 8% more damage, up from 6%
  • 32 now +2 on block, up from -1
Commando:
  • Choke +10 on hit, up from -5
  • Strangle +10 on hit, up from +5
  • Choke and Strangle no longer whiff after f33 on hit
  • Fixed damage on 32, it now does the same damage as it does in the other variations. 10% damage, up from 7% damage. This means 32 1+3 will now do 21% instead of 18%.
  • The command grabs no longer whiff on certain combo strings and specials
Cutthroat:
  • b1's hitbox slightly extended horizontally
  • Bloody Slice now has a hit of armor.
  • 32 hit properties are now like Commando's, it will keep the opponent standing instead of launching them.
Cybernetic:
  • b23 does 10% damage, up from 8%
  • Eye Burst does 7% damage, up from 6%
  • Eye Blast does 10% damage, up from 9%
  • Knife Toss -6 on block
  • Multi Blades +10 on block
  • 32 hit properties are now like Commando's, it will keep the opponent standing instead of launching them.

I think with 32 being safer on block and Commando's Wood Chipper doing 21%, it will finally make up for Commando lacking combos. Also with 32 in Cyber and Cutthroat now behaving like Commando's 32, it gives Kano slightly better combos because 32 > Laser could be a thing now. It also floats the opponent a bit during combos allowing Kano to do combo starter into 32 juggle and follow up with another 32, b13, etc into combo ender.
 
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Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
@SaltShaker didn't you hear that they've buffed Cybernetic?

His new name is Hish-Qu-Ten and he has higher damaging projectiles with the same recovery, except he can do them to hit low and anti air, better footsies and plus frames out his ass. He also hits like a truck.

Cybernetic Kano has been made 100% redundant by High-Qu-Ten.
 
DFC

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
@kabelfritz Cutthroat, and it's fine F21 is safe, and you can confirm the last 2 anyway
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@Zatoichi Some corrections to your post

the first hit in 112 needs it as well, because NO moves in the game should whiff on crouch blocking foes. The same applies to 2 and choke/strangle.

Cutthroat's B2 should be B1, as it has no B2.

And it looks like You made Midscreen one bar combos jump up into potentially the mid 40s. And edit your post to make EX Cyber knives +10, before my feelings get hurt
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@Skylight1 You and me? We ain't friends.
 
DFC

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
JDM said:
Disagree entirely. He's solid mid tier with no glaring flaws and 3 very good variations that all serve a purpose.
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This isn't necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I find it weird that the Grappliest Grappler in MKX, the one they basically touted as the Grappler, isn't even the best at his job. I feel like if you're making that statement, you want it to hold true, and not be out grappled by Erron Black and Jax.

@kabelfritz It's safe to KL spin, both regular and Tempest. It's safe to Cassie's EX carthweel too.
 
O

Oh My Zod

Noob
If you wanna play a grappler in this game....then Erron Black is your choice. ANY variation. Thats what is laughable, Commando is GRAPPLING and is outperformed period.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Noob
Oh My Zod said:
If you wanna play a grappler in this game....then Erron Black is your choice. ANY variation. Thats what is laughable, Commando is GRAPPLING and is outperformed period.
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having one command grab doesnt make a character a grappler. things that eb cant do are parrying and reverting positions with grabs.
 
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Oh My Zod

Noob
Wow, parry makes you a grappler? Reverting positions? When I play MKX my intention is to damage opponents and win the game. We all know how dominant Sub Zero Unbreakable ice shield is. If youre playing this character based on success of a parry then you must be very happy with a losing a record. Its all about tic strings into throw, and Kano just doesnt have it.
 
kabelfritz

kabelfritz

Noob
Oh My Zod said:
Wow, parry makes you a grappler? Reverting positions? When I play MKX my intention is to damage opponents and win the game. We all know how dominant Sub Zero Unbreakable ice shield is. If youre playing this character based on success of a parry then you must be very happy with a losing a record. Its all about tic strings into throw, and Kano just doesnt have it.
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my record is far from losing and im pretty fine with commando. he doesnt need more tic strings into throw, would make him op imo. just make df1 connect after f33 to have a mixup. if you dont see the benefit of reverting positions, like in the corner with an armored grab, i dont know what to say. also, how much damage does errons command throw do? 16/17 like kanos? does he have Standing resets as throw setups? oh and its minus on hit now while kanos are plus, right?

about "damaging opponents", the fun is to do that in different ways. some characters do it in a more slow, tactical way, like kano. not understanding that is a good example of everything that is wrong with tym right now.
 
O

Oh My Zod

Noob
kabelfritz said:
my record is far from losing and im pretty fine with commando. he doesnt need more tic strings into throw, would make him op imo. just make df1 connect after f33 to have a mixup. if you dont see the benefit of reverting positions, like in the corner with an armored grab, i dont know what to say. also, how much damage does errons command throw do? 16/17 like kanos? does he have Standing resets as throw setups? oh and its minus on hit now while kanos are plus, right?

about "damaging opponents", the fun is to do that in different ways. some characters do it in a more slow, tactical way, like kano. not understanding that is a good example of everything that is wrong with tym right now.
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Man you're right... Kano is top 3, especially Commando variation. I never see anyone landing Erron Black's command throw at will on any vanilla tournament stream or Major tourney EVER. The term "OP" and Kano will never be mentioned in the same sentence, so we're all safe on that one bro. The benefit of reverting positions means you were already put in the corner by the way, and with his never failing Up Ball for a wakeup you must have lots of these "fun" slow, tactical moments. Keep riding the "All is fine" bus.
 
ando1184

ando1184

Noob
SaltShaker said:
I know my bad my bad. I've actually shamelessly played more hours this weekend than I would ever admit. I meant to make the update today but blew too many hours playing and leveling. I've started playing Kano again a lot more so I had to all but erase any rust. I'll for sure update asap and make the part two of Ando's anti top tier tech for Kano specifically.
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Well initially I was gonna make it just how to punish stuff with Kano but then got to thinking. Everyone is already thinking Kano is fine the way he is and I didn't want it to "appear" that way since the stuff I was showing was universal tech. Even seeing the reaction of how everyone looks at predator now is disappointing. They freak out because of doctrine dark's combo vid and sonic fox's "online" set with honeybee. It's just no one is punishing properly more than 80% of the time, even at high level and that's the player'/community's fault because they aren't grinding out their options.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Phosferrax said:
@SaltShaker didn't you hear that they've buffed Cybernetic?

His new name is Hish-Qu-Ten and he has higher damaging projectiles with the same recovery, except he can do them to hit low and anti air, better footsies and plus frames out his ass. He also hits like a truck.

Cybernetic Kano has been made 100% redundant by High-Qu-Ten.
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I've been saying this actually and am now playing HQT. It is literally everything Cyber Kano was supposed to be. Better zoning, better damage, better corner, real mixups, better pressure, better long range poke, a REAL up laser that serves a purpose, better, better, better, better, better, etc.

Literally a walking Cyber 2.0. No reason to touch Cyber in his current state with HQT walking around lol.

JDM said:
Disagree entirely. He's solid mid tier with no glaring flaws and 3 very good variations that all serve a purpose.
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Serve a purpose for whatever that's worth yes, but Raiden also has 3 diverse variations, how are the other two? All 3 variations are far from "very good" lol.

Not counting Tremor (too new a character to properly include) here are all the characters with at least one variation better than Kano. * for multiple variations better.

1) Cassie*
2) D'Vorah*
3) Ermac
4) Erron
5) Jacqui (though FA may be about the same)
6) Jax* (all three better lol)
7) Kenshi*
8) Kitana*
9) Kotal
10) Kung Jin
11) Kung Lao*
12) Liu Kang*
13) Mileena
14) Predator*
15) Quan Chi*
16) Raiden
17) Scorpion
18) Shinnok*
19) Sonya*
20) Sub-zero
21) Tanya*

So that's 21 out of 27 characters who are better than Kano, with 12 of them having multiple variations better. Even if you disagreed with one or two or three, it would still be a significant portion better than him with a dozen characters having multiple variations better.

"Solid mid tier with no glaring flaws" would only describe if all 3 variations were one character. That description much better describes Ermac. Instead, Kano's a character with huge flaws in each variation separately, who excels at absolutely nothing outside of footsies that lead to nothing and high damage in Cutt. Very mediocre character.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
ando1184 said:
Well initially I was gonna make it just how to punish stuff with Kano but then got to thinking. Everyone is already thinking Kano is fine the way he is and I didn't want it to "appear" that way since the stuff I was showing was universal tech. Even seeing the reaction of how everyone looks at predator now is disappointing. They freak out because of doctrine dark's combo vid and sonic fox's "online" set with honeybee. It's just no one is punishing properly more than 80% of the time, even at high level and that's the player'/community's fault because they aren't grinding out their options.
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Yea that's true. Hunter Predator is getting away with absolute murder right now with unsafe gimmicks. I'm hoping "if" he gets some sort of nerf that it's minimal because I'd rather see his options start getting blown up first before saying what he doesn't need.

I hear Ya. They'll say something like "use that amazing backdash" or something like we haven't been doing that day 1 lol. Strongly feel like he's the Grundy of this game. Not good at all, but because of a small few things and early release week hype people think he's better than what he is, even though everything points to the opposite.
 
Zatoichi

Zatoichi

Fabulous Goofball
DougDFC said:
@Zatoichi Some corrections to your post

Cutthroat's B2 should be B1, as it has no B2.

And it looks like You made Midscreen one bar combos jump up into potentially the mid 40s. And edit your post to make EX Cyber knives +10, before my feelings get hurt
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My bad, fixed the b1 error.
 
O

Oh My Zod

Noob
Salt hit it right on the head. So what it really comes down to, is a form of "Blind" character loyalty that doesnt need to exist in this game's diverse environment. If you know there's something out there better, then why beat your head into the ground fighting it. Maybe the dev's designed Kano to be exactly what he is. Fighting to get him changed for the better obviously only works for other character communities like Kenshi and Kitana.
 
Zatoichi

Zatoichi

Fabulous Goofball
Maybe I should tone down the cybernetic damage buffs... mid 40's for one bar would be a tad powerful, especially since Cutthroat is supposed to be the damage dealer.
 
Skylight1

Skylight1

Noob
DougDFC said:
@kabelfritz Cutthroat, and it's fine F21 is safe, and you can confirm the last 2 anyway
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@Zatoichi Some corrections to your post

the first hit in 112 needs it as well, because NO moves in the game should whiff on crouch blocking foes. The same applies to 2 and choke/strangle.

Cutthroat's B2 should be B1, as it has no B2.

And it looks like You made Midscreen one bar combos jump up into potentially the mid 40s. And edit your post to make EX Cyber knives +10, before my feelings get hurt
-
@Skylight1 You and me? We ain't friends.
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@DougDFC okay Cesa... I meant Doug.

:DOGE.

(I really like the fact that the WWE is using him more, but I still can't like his gimmick =/. Undertaker is back anyway so ALL my attention is going to be on his match with Lesnar!)
 
Skylight1

Skylight1

Noob
SaltShaker said:
I've been saying this actually and am now playing HQT. It is literally everything Cyber Kano was supposed to be. Better zoning, better damage, better corner, real mixups, better pressure, better long range poke, a REAL up laser that serves a purpose, better, better, better, better, better, etc.

Literally a walking Cyber 2.0. No reason to touch Cyber in his current state with HQT walking around lol.



Serve a purpose for whatever that's worth yes, but Raiden also has 3 diverse variations, how are the other two? All 3 variations are far from "very good" lol.

Not counting Tremor (too new a character to properly include) here are all the characters with at least one variation better than Kano. * for multiple variations better.

1) Cassie*
2) D'Vorah*
3) Ermac
4) Erron
5) Jacqui (though FA may be about the same)
6) Jax* (all three better lol)
7) Kenshi*
8) Kitana*
9) Kotal
10) Kung Jin
11) Kung Lao*
12) Liu Kang*
13) Mileena
14) Predator*
15) Quan Chi*
16) Raiden
17) Scorpion
18) Shinnok*
19) Sonya*
20) Sub-zero
21) Tanya*

So that's 21 out of 27 characters who are better than Kano, with 12 of them having multiple variations better. Even if you disagreed with one or two or three, it would still be a significant portion better than him with a dozen characters having multiple variations better.

"Solid mid tier with no glaring flaws" would only describe if all 3 variations were one character. That description much better describes Ermac. Instead, Kano's a character with huge flaws in each variation separately, who excels at absolutely nothing outside of footsies that lead to nothing and high damage in Cutt. Very mediocre character.
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Kotal, Kenshi and Kitana are top 10 while Shinnok and Tanya is 18 and 21? Woah that's a huge risk man. Could you explain why you think they are better than Kano, if you don't mind?
 
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