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General/Other - Raiden Raiden General Discussion

SquirtMcGirt

Purple balls covering the screen
Hey guys this might seem like a noob question, but I'm using Thundergod raiden and for the life of me, I can't cancel his b3,2(hold) into shocker on block same with his f1,2,b2(hold) string. Is their some kind of trick to it?
 

WastedDaHitmaIV

Who's Wasted?
guys what's the best way to deal with ppl who used to poke a lot ? I have problem with ermac (think its d3 or d4) or shinok for example.
Usually when I fight ppl who use poke, I tend to use F12 and got poked out all the time since F1 is high.
How do you deal with ppl who use to spam pokes ? I try to back dash but it's hard or even jump
With meter, ex-db3. Without meter, and playing online, you're fucked.

Ermac's d3 is -3 on block so you can't do anything after blocking it, but if you block it twice you can jump out easily. You just gotta try and block till it pushes you back far enough to jump out.

I'm pretty sure Shinnok's d4 is a frame trap, so if you get hit by that you just have to block and wait for him to finish, taking the chip like a champ.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
Hey guys this might seem like a noob question, but I'm using Thundergod raiden and for the life of me, I can't cancel his b3,2(hold) into shocker on block same with his f1,2,b2(hold) string. Is their some kind of trick to it?
Do the input for Shocker as soon as you finish inputting B3, 2(hold) or F1, 2, B2 (Hold). The window for input seems to start very early and it's small.
 
Don't get me wrong I still think Raiden is somewhere in the 6-10 range, just no longer top 5. I also think that Displacer and Master of Stroms could be very good though and just remain largely underutilized because they were outshone by TG at first. I can't wait for someone to come along and really optimize the way that you should play with those variations and show how c=good they could be.
 

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
Don't get me wrong I still think Raiden is somewhere in the 6-10 range, just no longer top 5. I also think that Displacer and Master of Stroms could be very good though and just remain largely underutilized because they were outshone by TG at first. I can't wait for someone to come along and really optimize the way that you should play with those variations and show how c=good they could be.
I have played Thunder god since I picked up Raiden around the time the game came out. Lately I've been challenging myself to use MoS and Displacer more to raise my understanding of the character as well as look situations where they can outshine thunder god. What I have found the most disappointing in these variations is that what they gain in utility, they lose equally (if not more) in their neutral game. It is hard to not have the pressure and spacing that TG's lightning strings give you. That's my main problem with Displacer, even though my mobility is increased my ability to convert off of this mobility is lacking.

Of the two I would say that MoS is more viable for my own play style. I lose aggression when I don't play TG so being able to supplement my pokes with traps keeps my opponent playing at my pace. I think there is a lot of potential in MoS and I'm interested to see where we can take this variation over the next few months..... As long as NRS doesn't decide to clip Raiden's wings again....
 
I have played Thunder god since I picked up Raiden around the time the game came out. Lately I've been challenging myself to use MoS and Displacer more to raise my understanding of the character as well as look situations where they can outshine thunder god. What I have found the most disappointing in these variations is that what they gain in utility, they lose equally (if not more) in their neutral game. It is hard to not have the pressure and spacing that TG's lightning strings give you. That's my main problem with Displacer, even though my mobility is increased my ability to convert off of this mobility is lacking.

Of the two I would say that MoS is more viable for my own play style. I lose aggression when I don't play TG so being able to supplement my pokes with traps keeps my opponent playing at my pace. I think there is a lot of potential in MoS and I'm interested to see where we can take this variation over the next few months..... As long as NRS doesn't decide to clip Raiden's wings again....
Good point about neutral. I'm gonna suggest a couple buffs for displacer that I don't think he necessarily needs, but could be interesting. Universal: make standing 3 a mid (would help a bit with neutral game and pressure), Displacer: enhanced bobbalay actually restands the character similar to an enhanced grab instead of just adding some damage (I think this one would be really cool and potentially very useful).

P.S. Extra buff that would be hilarious and make Raiden S+: bobbalay can be canceled at anytime including mid flight or right after inputting it by pressing down down.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
i am pretty sure all stand 1/2/3/4 for every char are high
S2 Tremor is mid lol but that's the only case I've seen that doesn't follow the same pattern. We just really need a more viable mid. B11 whiffing kills us. I think what makes TG the best now besides being the scariest in the corner, is having the most options from b11. Some characters the only safe mid option you have is b1 shocker which, at worst gives them pressure again
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
S2 Tremor is mid lol but that's the only case I've seen that doesn't follow the same pattern. We just really need a more viable mid. B11 whiffing kills us. I think what makes TG the best now besides being the scariest in the corner, is having the most options from b11. Some characters the only safe mid option you have is b1 shocker which, at worst gives them pressure again
Yeah stand 2 with tremor I think is the only stand punch mid in the game. Several chars have mid standing 3/4 from what I remember though.

I tried using B14 as a counter poke and it's ok. You can hit confirm ex shocker and block confirm regular shocker. Also you can LRC as a gimmick that might work if they don't know about it or aren't paying super close attention. The LRC is minus on block though, probably like -6, at the absolute fastest. I had to try it since b11 second hit whiffs wayyyyy too much it's literally unusable on much of the cast. I think I'll stick to B14 hit confirming in matchups where b1 is useful.

That said...the FIRST hit of b11/B14 also misses alot. You have to be absolutely point blank, the range is really bad. Some chars its hard to hit them crouch blocking with the first hit of the string. I still don't see it being that great if the hit box on the second hit of b11 is fixed.

One other thing is its way too easy to low profile b1 as well, making it not very useful as a counterpoke, one of the situations you'd want a fast mid with bad range. Many chars can mash low pokes and even with a perfect timing b1 counterpoke they will avoid it by mashing d1/d3.

The summary of this post is, even though b11/B14 look pretty great in theory, the hit box on them limit their usefulness greatly. Many chars don't have to worry about getting hit by them ever, while playing their generic game plan.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Yeah stand 2 with tremor I think is the only stand punch mid in the game. Several chars have mid standing 3/4 from what I remember though.

I tried using B14 as a counter poke and it's ok. You can hit confirm ex shocker and block confirm regular shocker. Also you can LRC as a gimmick that might work if they don't know about it or aren't paying super close attention. The LRC is minus on block though, probably like -6, at the absolute fastest. I had to try it since b11 second hit whiffs wayyyyy too much it's literally unusable on much of the cast. I think I'll stick to B14 hit confirming in matchups where b1 is useful.

That said...the FIRST hit of b11/B14 also misses alot. You have to be absolutely point blank, the range is really bad. Some chars its hard to hit them crouch blocking with the first hit of the string. I still don't see it being that great if the hit box on the second hit of b11 is fixed.

One other thing is its way too easy to low profile b1 as well, making it not very useful as a counterpoke, one of the situations you'd want a fast mid with bad range. Many chars can mash low pokes and even with a perfect timing b1 counterpoke they will avoid it by mashing d1/d3.

The summary of this post is, even though b11/B14 look pretty great in theory, the hit box on them limit their usefulness greatly. Many chars don't have to worry about getting hit by them ever, while playing their generic game plan.
Exactly, some characters practically have block infinites vs Raiden
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Exactly, some characters practically have block infinites vs Raiden
Well I wouldn't go that far, lol. He can use his d1/d3 which get the job done but both are -9 on block which sucks. I've had my low pokes accidentally punished by counter pokes as dumb as that sounds.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Well I wouldn't go that far, lol. He can use his d1/d3 which get the job done but both are -9 on block which sucks. I've had my low pokes accidentally punished by counter pokes as dumb as that sounds.
Against FT and Mileena it almost feels like an infinte. But the situations that are a real issue are the characters that can full combo your pokes. Cassie, Lao, Shinnok are the only ones that come to mind right off the top of my head. But most importantly, how do you fight around this flaw
 
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On the negative side, it sucks raiden has bad mids and would be great if they got fixed. On the positive side however, raiden is a top tier with a weakness that makes him balanced. In my opinion a top tier with a weakness is better than a top tier with no weakness. I hope NRS can make the other top tiers have weaknesses as well because right now, I can think of 5 characters above raiden that can do whatever the hell they want whenever they want. That is the problem currently
 
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BlackJackSnack

Bags of mostly water
Do you guys think that maybe raiden was nerfed a little too early? Especially bc of his b11 whiff (I don't think it will be fixed.)

I mean I don't think his corner bnb with one bar that did 48 percent was that bad when kung lao can do practically do the same thing.

The chip damage thing I can understand but if you risk holding 2 for the full 1122 or b1122 I think you deserve that chip damage.

I don't mean to complain but I'm just wondering if you guys think it was well deserved?
 

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
Do you guys think that maybe raiden was nerfed a little too early? Especially bc of his b11 whiff (I don't think it will be fixed.)

I mean I don't think his corner bnb with one bar that did 48 percent was that bad when kung lao can do practically do the same thing.

The chip damage thing I can understand but if you risk holding 2 for the full 1122 or b1122 I think you deserve that chip damage.

I don't mean to complain but I'm just wondering if you guys think it was well deserved?
The only things I weren't a fan of was not getting a b11 fix and having f1 be a high instead of making f12 be more negative
 

Burnout

Keep et Classy
I doubt this is anything close to optimal but just interesting discovery I found.

I had no time to search every single posts to find if this was already found or not, for that I apologise.


Like the near end of the video said, it is not strictly Raiden Only, but I accidentally found it while practicing Raiden.
 
what are the easiest combos to use lightening run cancels i cant hit b2 rc b14 exdf2 b14 rc 214 bf3 i dont know if its even possible. so what are the eaier ones?
 

Cerebru

Noob
I have played Thunder god since I picked up Raiden around the time the game came out. Lately I've been challenging myself to use MoS and Displacer more to raise my understanding of the character as well as look situations where they can outshine thunder god. What I have found the most disappointing in these variations is that what they gain in utility, they lose equally (if not more) in their neutral game. It is hard to not have the pressure and spacing that TG's lightning strings give you. That's my main problem with Displacer, even though my mobility is increased my ability to convert off of this mobility is lacking.

Of the two I would say that MoS is more viable for my own play style. I lose aggression when I don't play TG so being able to supplement my pokes with traps keeps my opponent playing at my pace. I think there is a lot of potential in MoS and I'm interested to see where we can take this variation over the next few months..... As long as NRS doesn't decide to clip Raiden's wings again....
Honestly, Your right displacer not having B3 2 starter hurts dearly not to mention the lack of meter building potential to keep you in the match. I'm a displacer main but have been using TG recently only because he actually is viable. DP and MOS suffer more for the lack of meter. MOS has some crazy input bugs that I think need addressing. DP and MOS can't connect b33 to normal shocker making that low almost useless in. Teleport is way to slow even in the mix up game on hit. However, I recommend playing them in conjunction anyway. It will make a you make the most out of every movement.
 
DP and MOS can't connect b33 to normal shocker making that low almost useless in.
b34 shocker/supes etc tho? or just b3 right into shocker to keep them guessing low or high. D has great neutral game and I keep meter building in mind, one good thing is people are used to the TG formula so people have less experience vs D and MOS tricks
 

Cerebru

Noob
b34 shocker/supes etc tho? or just b3 right into shocker to keep them guessing low or high. D has great neutral game and I keep meter building in mind, one good thing is people are used to the TG formula so people have less experience vs D and MOS tricks
.... well if it works, I've notice it whiffs quite often. You also risk being full combo punished when/if blocked. (notice I said when first) I was saying more of the lines of its harder to keep them guessing in those varies because B32 is gone. You gotta make sure you confirm that B3 either way. It helps to try mix it up with 21 pressure but that first 2 is a high so any character thats poke/roll/slide happier will be annoying.