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General/Other - Takeda Tweaks that could help w/o making Takeda OP

GuerillaTactix

GuerillaTactix

#bufftakeda
SnowboardRX said:
I think that if in Ronin you could EX-blade throw right off the bat (Which would instantly throw, [maybe track?] and call back right away, leaving you a bit + on block, kinda like Tempest Lao's EX Hat Spin), that would be all he'd need to make him complete. Wouldn't really need a teleport or anything else at that point.
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I agree. For a bar it only seems worth it that we don't have to throw it down and pick it up in two motions. Especially when the move doesn't track.
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
I've been gone a while, is this just what we do now? Post threads telling NRS how to make their game instead of playing it? Or did someone at NRS actually ask for this nonsense?
 
aieches

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
trufenix said:
I've been gone a while, is this just what we do now? Post threads telling NRS how to make their game instead of playing it? Or did someone at NRS actually ask for this nonsense?
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naw we just like to start civilized debates on characters we like to play with other people who like to play said characters ... i mean ... but damn now that you mention it, some of the peoples posts here seem really informed about characters they dont play as.. damn how did that happen?

but hey man , i didnt even know you were gone for so long.. dont do that again...people like you are soooo missed when we dont hear your much valuable input.
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
aieches said:
naw we just like to start civilized debates on characters we like to play with other people who like to play said characters ... i mean ... but damn now that you mention it, some of the peoples posts here seem really informed about characters they dont play as.. damn how did that happen?
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I'm all for debate, but I feel like the goal of debate used to be finding new answers to balance problems, not just outright deciding how the game to be rebalanced. Maybe I'm rose tinted glasses-ing here, but as you say, it seems like all of a sudden this board is FULL of fighting game designers not competitive gamers.

but hey man , i didnt even know you were gone for so long.. dont do that again...people like you are soooo missed when we dont hear your much valuable input.
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Yeah, I've been gone. I absolutely can't play this around my kid which basically means I can't play these days. I think the last time I even picked up a controller somebody mopped me up with Jason before he was available to the public. Can't honestly say I've missed this, but somebody said there was predator footage here so I wanted to check. Holy shit has it gotten bad. I think every single character has one of these buff shopping list threads. I can't honestly tell whose bad / good.
 
aieches

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
trufenix said:
Oh, and we're hostile towards anyone who thinks this practice sucks. Lovin' the new vibe here guys. Hope you get everything you want for patchmas. I'm gonna go back to playing with the toys I have.
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man heres the problem.. everyone talks so much shit on this site for no reason.. and it gets annoying... in the long run who the f cares if NRS is going to listen or not.. that has nothing to do with us having the option to talk about it .. this is a community forum to talk about anything MK related...whether you agree or not it doesnt really matter..i mean shit - i can right now make a new thread about i think subzero should have another brother in MKX, state why, and start a debate about it - is it going to happen, hell no.. is it worth NRS taking the time to read, hell no.... is it a stupid idea... hell yeah but still doesnt mean that other people wouldnt mind sharing their OPINION on it...

why come into a thread that you obviously think is not worth it just to state that you got give a damn about it? its not going to change the minds of the people who are commenting it, its not going to change the mind of anybody at NRS, all its going to do is just provoke someone into defending their opinion..

why not come in here and just say - hey personally dont think "So and so" needs anything- i like them just they way they are and then give insight why?
Youd be surprised how much people will actually listen to ANY HELPFUL TECH cause really, maybe we just dont know what you may know and thats WHY threads like this exist, theres things that even after playing Takeda for countless hours that i thought needed fixed but then i was told i wasnt doing something correctly and that fixed my prob so now, i dont think its useless or needs fixed.. but if people just call out shit instead of trying to help how the hell are we supposed to get anywhere?

im just saying man.. i dont know how you would think that coming into a thread like this and saying something like that wasnt good get somebody popping off.. and its not just a NRS community thing... you can go to any forum site - saying something similar, and get the same response..
 
aieches

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
and its nothing against you personally.. i dont kow you aside from words on a computer screen but it seems like this happenes in every thread and people cant just have normal debates anymore - even if they dont get anywhere but on this site-

and i feel you- i have a 2 year old duaghter- i cant go to locals as much as i want- i have a full time job and do my own design work on the side.. plus none of my close friends are this into the FGC - so really this place is the only place most like us have that we can talk about anything and everything MK with people who understand ..
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
aieches said:
im just saying man.. i dont know how you would think that coming into a thread like this and saying something like that wasnt good get somebody popping off.. and its not just a NRS community thing... you can go to any forum site - saying something similar, and get the same response..
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Well, I honestly DID want to know if colt or jedwards or someone had actually asked for this, but hey, if "fuck off" is just a reasonable response around here, my bad.

That said, if you really want to know why I think this fucking practice sucks its because despite the shopping list in the OP and the information posted in the replies, nobody has stated even a single matchup or situation that it will overcome. Give Takeda univeral teleport because reasons. That seems to be the tenor (in general) around here. Give me buffs, don't worry about why. Well, that's the wrong fucking reason to buff a character and bad logic for balancing a game IMO.

You wanna have a discussion about Universal teleport, tell me what character matchup it will fix, then lets think for a second about the one it will break. THEN we carve it into stone and shout it out from the mountaintop. That's the part thats missing.
 
aieches

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
trufenix said:
Well, I honestly DID want to know if colt or jedwards or someone had actually asked for this, but hey, if "fuck off" is just a reasonable response around here, my bad.

That said, if you really want to know why I think this fucking practice sucks its because despite the shopping list in the OP and the information posted in the replies, nobody has stated even a single matchup or situation that it will overcome. Give Takeda univeral teleport because reasons. That seems to be the tenor (in general) around here. Give me buffs, don't worry about why. Well, that's the wrong fucking reason to buff a character and bad logic for balancing a game IMO.

You wanna have a discussion about Universal teleport, tell me what character matchup it will fix, then lets think for a second about the one it will break. THEN we carve it into stone and shout it out from the mountaintop. That's the part thats missing.
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First , fuck off is not a justified response... I'm not trying to defend that.. but I'm saying that I'm not surprised that somebody would pop off like that.

and for talking about that match up that's exactly what we would need to keep the conversation moving. you're right nobody asked that question and it should be at but instead of asking that question you kind of just came in and shook a hornets nest without really stating why... That's what I'm trying to get at is that your question is probably one of the best questions that need to be asked for debate purposes but we didn't get any of that
 
MK_Al

MK_Al

Noob
aieches said:
man heres the problem.. everyone talks so much shit on this site for no reason.. and it gets annoying... in the long run who the f cares if NRS is going to listen or not.. that has nothing to do with us having the option to talk about it .. this is a community forum to talk about anything MK related...whether you agree or not it doesnt really matter..i mean shit - i can right now make a new thread about i think subzero should have another brother in MKX, state why, and start a debate about it - is it going to happen, hell no.. is it worth NRS taking the time to read, hell no.... is it a stupid idea... hell yeah but still doesnt mean that other people wouldnt mind sharing their OPINION on it...

why come into a thread that you obviously think is not worth it just to state that you got give a damn about it? its not going to change the minds of the people who are commenting it, its not going to change the mind of anybody at NRS, all its going to do is just provoke someone into defending their opinion..

why not come in here and just say - hey personally dont think "So and so" needs anything- i like them just they way they are and then give insight why?
Youd be surprised how much people will actually listen to ANY HELPFUL TECH cause really, maybe we just dont know what you may know and thats WHY threads like this exist, theres things that even after playing Takeda for countless hours that i thought needed fixed but then i was told i wasnt doing something correctly and that fixed my prob so now, i dont think its useless or needs fixed.. but if people just call out shit instead of trying to help how the hell are we supposed to get anywhere?

im just saying man.. i dont know how you would think that coming into a thread like this and saying something like that wasnt good get somebody popping off.. and its not just a NRS community thing... you can go to any forum site - saying something similar, and get the same response..
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but he's got a point. the game is out for only a few months, and instead of working out matchups poeple make buff demands. thats akward, and for sure not the way to become a better player. also, NRS won't patch their game according to TYM wishlists.
But of course everyone is free to post whatever moves him.
 
aieches

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
MK_Al said:
but he's got a point. the game is out for only a few months, and instead of working out matchups poeple make buff demands. thats akward, and for sure not the way to become a better player. also, NRS won't patch their game according to TYM wishlists.
But of course everyone is free to post whatever moves him.
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I never said he didn't have a point... As a matter of fact I said he has one of the best questions that needs to be debated... My point was that instead of debating the topic, he came into the thread and said something that was obvious to shake someone up, then wonder why it happened... I just think this happens too much on this site and that's why everyone is so qui k to jump down other people's throats. ... If nobody starts debates then what can we really learn what we need if instead of teaching or correcting (like I said, I got corrrected once in a thread like this and it completely changed how I use a move ) people just post irrelevant remarks.

And who's to say who has or hasn't tried to work out matches. That's just an assumption.. I'm prob sure there are people who really want to use ronin or lasher hince why they are in this thread.

I'm just saying ... He doesn't have to agree , nobody has to agree.. but if you think a thread is not really worth discussing, why bother coming in just to make passive aggressive digs ya know?

But I dunno, me saying this isn't gonna change anyone or anything here, plus we are getting wayyyyy off topic.. sorry everyone.
 
MK_Al

MK_Al

Noob
aieches said:
And who's to say who has or hasn't tried to work out matches. That's just an assumption.. I'm prob sure there are people who really want to use ronin or lasher hince why they are in this thread.
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i'l give you that. BTW I play ronin, but I feel far away from coming to a mu conclusion.
 
craftycheese

craftycheese

I tried to throw a yo-yo away. It was impossible.
In Lasher, maybe change the inputs for Whip Strike from df1 to bf1? It comes out a lot when I want diagonal 1. I wonder if playing with a stick would remedy my problem.
 
Nostalgialite

Nostalgialite

Noob
Faster D3 or 4, but not to fast to the point where it's ridiculous.
Fix the consistency on hellspawn after a knock down. Won't be able to do a NJP after F12 + 24 (first hit) xx teleport due to game's gravity I guess.
Fist Flurry faster start up for SR
Whip Flurry in Lahser becomes an overhead
Fix the block stun in Ronin when you call back the sword from the ground
112 becomes a true block string
F214 special canceable
B1 becomes faster
 
S

StealthyMuffin

Earth's Mightiest Knucklehead
Nostalgialite said:
Faster D3 or 4, but not to fast to the point where it's ridiculous.
Fix the consistency on hellspawn after a knock down. Won't be able to do a NJP after F12 + 24 (first hit) xx teleport due to game's gravity I guess.
Fist Flurry faster start up for SR
Whip Flurry in Lahser becomes an overhead
Fix the block stun in Ronin when you call back the sword from the ground
112 becomes a true block string
F214 special canceable
B1 becomes faster
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That's pretty good. And fix the Hellspawn vs Jax bug.
 
Immortal Kombat

Immortal Kombat

almost moderate success
I don't know if I should ask for buffs or just play hish qu ten predator.
If I were to ask for anything, it would be to give him faster startup time on ex fist flurry. It's super easy to poke it out.
The ex teleport is good, but it gets beat out alot by simple low attacks.
I feel like they've done a good job by giving him faster pokes (d1).
His uppercut is a good anti air but it tends to whiff alot up close.
Lasher has issues with stuff recapturing when you start combos off anti airs. I don't know if that's intended but it would be nice if you didn't have to settle for less damage so your combo doesn't drop when you do ex whip flurry
 
MK_Al

MK_Al

Noob
Immortal Kombat said:
I don't know if I should ask for buffs or just play hish qu ten predator.
If I were to ask for anything, it would be to give him faster startup time on ex fist flurry. It's super easy to poke it out.
The ex teleport is good, but it gets beat out alot by simple low attacks.
I feel like they've done a good job by giving him faster pokes (d1).
His uppercut is a good anti air but it tends to whiff alot up close.
Lasher has issues with stuff recapturing when you start combos off anti airs. I don't know if that's intended but it would be nice if you didn't have to settle for less damage so your combo doesn't drop when you do ex whip flurry
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"Fixing" EX fist flurry is the one and only buff I'd agree instantly. Its a heartbreaker making the right read and still eating a combo.
 
ryublaze

ryublaze

Noob
I think these are some reasonable fixes:

1. Remove the gap in f12+4 and f122+4 so they can't armor/backdash when crouch blocking. To me this is more of a hitbox issue because crouching lowers their hitbox making the overhead hit later than it should. It kinda sucks when his main pressure string has a hole in it.

2. MAYBE add more cancel block advantage off of the last 2 hits of f12+4 and f122+4 where they can't armor out of Kunai afterwards. This would also make teleport cancels less negative. This is probably more of a buff though.
EDIT: Nevermind. This might make Ronin pressure too strong, so idk.

3. In Ronin fix Blade Summon on block where sometimes the blade hits once or twice. If it hits once then the move is actually around -14 when it really should be -9 (frame data says it's -5 but it's actually -9).

EDIT: Removed #4 cuz it probably wasn't a bug.

#'s 1 and 3 are the most important fixes I would make. Hopefully at least one of these gets fixed. @colt
 
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hayatei

hayatei

Noob
RedRaptor10 said:
I think these are some reasonable fixes:

1. Remove the gap in f12+4 and f122+4 so they can't armor/backdash when crouch blocking. To me this is more of a hitbox issue because crouching lowers their hitbox making the overhead hit later than it should. It kinda sucks when his main pressure string has a hole in it.

2. MAYBE add more cancel block advantage off of the last 2 hits of f12+4 and f122+4 where they can't armor out of Kunai afterwards. This would also make teleport cancels less negative. This is probably more of a buff though.

3. In Ronin fix Blade Summon on block where sometimes the blade hits once or twice. If it hits once then the move is actually around -14 when it really should be -7.

4. In Ronin when stuffing armor with EX Blade Summon sometimes it won't launch for a full combo (depending on your opponent's armor). I'm not sure if this was intended but I think it should be more consistent.

#'s 1 and 3 are the most important fixes I would make. Hopefully at least one of these gets fixed. @colt
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I've been saying blade call hitbox need to get fixed, I think that's the only buff/change that ronin needs. I think just that would make a HUGE difference

Also while #2 would fix shirai ryu issues against characters with fast launching armors, it might make ronin blade drop quick call pressure way too strong and braindead. #1 would already make the ronin metagame have less depth/more boring to me on top of that
 
Immortal Kombat

Immortal Kombat

almost moderate success
RedRaptor10 said:
I think these are some reasonable fixes:

1. Remove the gap in f12+4 and f122+4 so they can't armor/backdash when crouch blocking. To me this is more of a hitbox issue because crouching lowers their hitbox making the overhead hit later than it should. It kinda sucks when his main pressure string has a hole in it.

2. MAYBE add more cancel block advantage off of the last 2 hits of f12+4 and f122+4 where they can't armor out of Kunai afterwards. This would also make teleport cancels less negative. This is probably more of a buff though.
EDIT: Nevermind. This might make Ronin pressure too strong, so idk.

3. In Ronin fix Blade Summon on block where sometimes the blade hits once or twice. If it hits once then the move is actually at least -16 when it really should be -9 (frame data says it's -5 but it's actually -9).

4. In Ronin when stuffing armor with EX Blade Summon sometimes it won't launch for a full combo (depending on your opponent's armor). I'm not sure if this was intended but I think it should be more consistent.

#'s 1 and 3 are the most important fixes I would make. Hopefully at least one of these gets fixed. @colt
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Am I the only takeda that doesn't use f1,2+4? I've never relied on it because of the gaps. I've used f3, and d1,d3, backdash because I'd rather be in b2,1 range anyways. If they fix the armor gaps, I'll use it. But I'm fine either way.
 
gam224

gam224

The world's least hype player
He needs better wake up but in return i think he needs to have his air teleport increase in recovery. I am always reminded of martian manhunter's overhead safe teleport whenever takeda air teleports then nj punches or grabs.
 
Immortal Kombat

Immortal Kombat

almost moderate success
gam224 said:
He needs better wake up but in return i think he needs to have his air teleport increase in recovery. I am always reminded of martian manhunter's overhead safe teleport whenever takeda air teleports then nj punches or grabs.
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Shhhhhh....
 
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