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Strategy - Thunder God My thunder god MU list

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Why would Raiden 7-3 ethereal mileena and 6-4 her other variations. F1 in ethereal works fine and she can use ex fade to get out of the corner. Ethereal seems like it would fair better then the other variations. I'm not saying your wrong since I have yet to play along set against a good Raiden but I would like to here your reasoning.
She loses out on her offensive tools from the other variations where she already struggles to beat raiden, IMO her teleport is a worse tool than what the other variations provide and also he usually leaves a vortex so the teleport as a wakeup probably won't be too useful. This is my first my draft chart with raiden and the game is still young so i don't expect to be correct about every MU, it could be that they're all 6-4 it could be they're all 7-4 or maybe one of them is 5-5 in the future idk
 

Tokiwartoothxdk

『T R I G G E R E D』
My sub zero experience says that raiden is very vulnerable against grandmaster in the corner and that b2 is great for playing tootsies with raiden.i can understand the Jax l argument but I've beaten most Jax players I've faced and even the difficult ones didn't feel worse than 5-5. As for cassie I disagree unless you give reason, Kung Lao I can understand but at the same time raiden has the tools to fight him, raiden is a strong vortex character so his spin isn't as prominent for example and also raiden has a high damage output too so they both hurt each other roughly the same per touch.
Both Cassie and Kung lao can full combo punish raidens d1. Cassies d3 causes raiden to have to counter poke if she decides to block and its a d1 its full combo, Raiden goes for a f1 and she gets a free d3 into pressure, throw that onto cassies safe ex gunshot set-ups and varying advantage on nutpunch and shit hits the fan real quick. armoring out can be rough too due to cassies small hitbox. since she is already probably going for a d3 the ex shocker and blast go over her head, i also have had on occastion had the ex uppercut wiff due to its upward hitbox. Kung lao is just Kung Lao, he does what he wants when he wants. as soon as cassie and KL realize you fof f1 to counter poke, its over. 1 blocked d1 is death. As for Sub, Thunder god string go through the clone, and Displacer just makes the clone pointless. As for Kenshi balanced, duck 1 telefury and get a free superman to the corner, then Its raidens game from there
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
The reason for animosity toward MU charts that just list numbers is because it does nothing to further the understanding of the match. It's generally an arbitrarily determined number based on opinion.

For this reason, I support discussions about matchups, but don't care to much about the numbers behind them, especially early in a game when versions of characters may have only existed for weeks with patches.

If the MU chart had a detailed explanation, I would be all for it. But early in a game's life all MUs are in flux and nothing is self-evident.
Fair enough, but the numbers help to jump-start the discussion.

The numbers give the players the opportunity to talk about the matchups they care about.
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
She loses out on her offensive tools from the other variations where she already struggles to beat raiden, IMO her teleport is a worse tool than what the other variations provide and also he usually leaves a vortex so the teleport as a wakeup probably won't be too useful. This is my first my draft chart with raiden and the game is still young so i don't expect to be correct about every MU, it could be that they're all 6-4 it could be they're all 7-4 or maybe one of them is 5-5 in the future idk
I still think ethereal would be the best variation in the matchup. F12 in piercing whiffs on Raiden making her main tool for oki unsafe and in ravenous you can full combo punish high pounce on block. In ethereal she can make her low string safe with ex fade and can use f12 on knockdown safely. Also what are you talking about losing all her offensive tools. EX fade is a great tool for pressure.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Both Cassie and Kung lao can full combo punish raidens d1. Cassies d3 causes raiden to have to counter poke if she decides to block and its a d1 its full combo, Raiden goes for a f1 and she gets a free d3 into pressure, throw that onto cassies safe ex gunshot set-ups and varying advantage on nutpunch and shit hits the fan real quick. armoring out can be rough too due to cassies small hitbox. since she is already probably going for a d3 the ex shocker and blast go over her head, i also have had on occastion had the ex uppercut wiff due to its upward hitbox. Kung lao is just Kung Lao, he does what he wants when he wants. as soon as cassie and KL realize you fof f1 to counter poke, its over. 1 blocked d1 is death. As for Sub, Thunder god string go through the clone, and Displacer just makes the clone pointless. As for Kenshi balanced, duck 1 telefury and get a free superman to the corner, then Its raidens game from there
I'll change brawler to 5-5 but just to be clear raiden's d1 can only be punished at very close range and a reversal flip will whiff and get you full combo punished for 40% into the corner knockdown where you can't wakeup if he does b32(hold) at the right time even if you delay. On the flip side raiden can also punish most of her tools with a full combo and her main pressure string b124 if completed will result in 32% into the corner.

I may change raiden-tempest to 4-6 in the future,I'll have a think.

And yeah that's good reason to say raiden beats kenshi thanks I forgot about that
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
I still think ethereal would be the best variation in the matchup. F12 in piercing whiffs on Raiden making her main tool for oki unsafe and in ravenous you can full combo punish high pounce on block. In ethereal she can make her low string safe with ex fade and can use f12 on knockdown safely. Also what are you talking about losing all her offensive tools. EX fade is a great tool for pressure.
That's debateable, I think it's more fancy looking than a powerful tool just like raideen's ex teleport. I'll leave it at 6-4 and remove the 'possible 7-3' but I won't agree with anything better for her
 
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Tokiwartoothxdk

『T R I G G E R E D』
I'll change brawler to 5-5 but just to be clear raiden's d1 can only be punished at very close range and a reversal flip will whiff and get you full combo punished for 40% into the corner knockdown where you can't wakeup if he does b32(hold) at the right time even if you delay. On the flip side raiden can also punish most of her tools with a full combo and her main pressure string b124 if completed will result in 32% into the corner.

I may change raiden-tempest to 4-6 in the future,I'll have a think.

And yeah that's good reason to say raiden beats kenshi thanks I forgot about that
i know about all that stuff, i just get super salty when i play against her lol
 
I think raiden struggles with zoning a little. He has the armored superman which is great but gets him no damage. TG just doesn't have anything for mid to far range to counter zoners. And if your superman is block say goodnight. Bad risk/reward there. I might have to learn Displacer for some zoners since he can punish any projectile for 30+ now.

I don't think raiden loses to rushdown. He's got armor for everything. His njp is great for punishing lows and his d1 although -9 is 7 frames, out reaches most, and it will not be punished unless your a robot. The only rushdown character that might have an advantage right now is Kung Lao because he's the only one who can punish raidens -7 overhead. But that's a one frame punish and only at point blank range. Raiden plays his game just as good as kung Lao or Cassie IMO. They can just deal with zoning better and they have better nuetral game
 
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bdizzle2700

gotta stay sharp!
Thank you for your opinion sir,could you please explain why you disagree?
General- kano has really good footsies and above average projectiles that recover quick. Only on a read from full screen can you punish with ex superman. His backdash is really good and can get out of pressure. Only thing he lacks is high damage which can bite him.
Commando 5-5 (or possibly 4-6 raiden favor). Command grabs hurt. Raiden wants to stay grounded cause thats where he excels and thats where kano excels as well. Parrying your wake up cause they are high is easy mode. If you dont wake up theres the threat of a command grab. Also when you knock kano down he can ex ball to continue a combo and put him self in an advantageous position. Or can ex up ball to wake up and stay safe being -5. This match up is all about reads and who makes the better ones.

Cutthroat 5-5. Not too familar with this but he has 50-50s that are safe and buff which makes his damage out out greater than raidens especially in the corner. I say even here.

Cyber 6-4. Mid knives are a pain for raiden. Ending combos in up ball sends raiden full screen where he can bait superman. Alot of checks to raiden with d4 and back dashing to make him think twice. Mid screen both have about the same damage out put. If kano can stay away from the corner then raiden cant play his game. Kano controls the screen to well.
Note: option selecting makes you safe. And kano can then implement his game cause its now his turn to push buttons
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
My sub zero experience says that raiden is very vulnerable against grandmaster in the corner and that b2 is great for playing tootsies with raiden.i can understand the Jax l argument but I've beaten most Jax players I've faced and even the difficult ones didn't feel worse than 5-5. As for cassie I disagree unless you give reason, Kung Lao I can understand but at the same time raiden has the tools to fight him, raiden is a strong vortex character so his spin isn't as prominent for example and also raiden has a high damage output too so they both hurt each other roughly the same per touch.
So basically your inability to deal with things like the Ice Clone, something your character deals with well, is why you think that a low mid tier character goes 5
-5 with one of his hardest match ups.

Sorry, but if you are this low level, you shouldn't be making MU lists. I'm not saying I could do any better, you don't see me making this sort of thread tho
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
General- kano has really good footsies and above average projectiles that recover quick. Only on a read from full screen can you punish with ex superman. His backdash is really good and can get out of pressure. Only thing he lacks is high damage which can bite him.
Commando 5-5 (or possibly 4-6 raiden favor). Command grabs hurt. Raiden wants to stay grounded cause thats where he excels and thats where kano excels as well. Parrying your wake up cause they are high is easy mode. If you dont wake up theres the threat of a command grab. Also when you knock kano down he can ex ball to continue a combo and put him self in an advantageous position. Or can ex up ball to wake up and stay safe being -5. This match up is all about reads and who makes the better ones.

Cutthroat 5-5. Not too familar with this but he has 50-50s that are safe and buff which makes his damage out out greater than raidens especially in the corner. I say even here.

Cyber 6-4. Mid knives are a pain for raiden. Ending combos in up ball sends raiden full screen where he can bait superman. Alot of checks to raiden with d4 and back dashing to make him think twice. Mid screen both have about the same damage out put. If kano can stay away from the corner then raiden cant play his game. Kano controls the screen to well.
Note: option selecting makes you safe. And kano can then implement his game cause its now his turn to push buttons
I don't play Commando much so I can't say much about the matchup specifically but Up Ball and EX Kano Ball are universal so just stick to Commando-specific options like parries and grabs. Also EX Up Ball can be crouch blocked where the second hit whiffs making it unsafe so that's not entirely correct.

Cybernetic is not 6-4 in Kano's favour. It would be if he had comparable damage output, it's the main reason he doesn't beat the majority of the top tiers. Although we can use EX Knives to stop EX Superman advances and zone and we control space better than Raiden and Kano has better footsie tools, he lacks the damage and mixups to beat Raiden. Cybernetic Kano does NOT have the same damage output as Raiden midscreen L O L, Raiden outdamages us easily. Ending combos in Up Ball isn't a good idea because it's a quick stand and if you do it at the end of combos the opponent is actually at advantage. Just use Kano Ball which not only does more damage but gives a much better knockdown. D4 and backdashing are universal tools against opponents and aren't specific to if Raiden loses this or not, although Kano does have better footsie tools than Raiden in this case anyway. If Cutthroat is 5-5 so is this.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
I think raiden struggles with zoning a little. He has the armored superman which is great but gets him no damage. TG just doesn't have anything for mid to far range to counter zoners. And if your superman is block say goodnight. Bad risk/reward there. I might have to learn Displacer for some zoners since he can punish any projectile for 30+ now.

I don't think raiden loses to rushdown. He's got armor for everything. His njp is great for punishing lows and his d1 although -9 is 7 frames, out reaches most, and it will not be punished unless your a robot. The only rushdown character that might have an advantage right now is Kung Lao because he's the only one who can punish raidens -7 overhead. But that's a one frame punish and only at point blank range. Raiden plays his game just as good as kung Lao or Cassie IMO. They can just deal with zoning better and they have better nuetral game
I think 14% is decent damage but the real reward is the positioning. One superman almost always guarantees you put the opponent in the corner with good oki as well
@DreadKnight1 you are correct that cassie flip kick range is bad but it still punishes raiden d1 from everywhere except max range
 
I think 14% is decent damage but the real reward is the positioning. One superman almost always guarantees you put the opponent in the corner with good oki as well
@DreadKnight1 you are correct that cassie flip kick range is bad but it still punishes raiden d1 from everywhere except max range
It would be better if the startup was mk9 level but as it is now, superman rarely works on reaction. Usually you have to preemptively make the read and hope they throw a projectile. Ex teleport into F1 however will punish anything, and 32% punish for one bar is pretty good.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
I think 14% is decent damage but the real reward is the positioning. One superman almost always guarantees you put the opponent in the corner with good oki as well
@DreadKnight1 you are correct that cassie flip kick range is bad but it still punishes raiden d1 from everywhere except max range
where did you get 14% from?
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
So basically your inability to deal with things like the Ice Clone, something your character deals with well, is why you think that a low mid tier character goes 5
-5 with one of his hardest match ups.

Sorry, but if you are this low level, you shouldn't be making MU lists. I'm not saying I could do any better, you don't see me making this sort of thread tho
If you're EU I'd like to BO10 you raiden-sub zero.

Literally everything you just said makes no sense. You literally just assumed I'm a bad player because you disagree with my opinion,my options in the corner are just as hopeless as most of the cast against grandmaster.if I read the low and I try nj2 it and you read it you get a free overhead punish into the knockdown and another clone.

i never said I was unable to deal with clone but let's stop the downplaying because sub zero isn't exactly a pushover in mkx. if you claim to know the mu and tell me that sub zero loses it then tell me something matchup specific that gives raiden the edge other than "he's top tier"
 

infamy23

FireBeard
Balanced Kenshi is my easiest matchup by far.

Crouch at full screen. Block his 30 frame overhead on reaction. WHEN (not if) he whiffs BF3, run in and block when you get to RK range.

Once you're close to him, he cannot do anything to you except throw because he has no mix-ups. Just trade blows with him, and bait the inevitable EXRK which usually comes immediately. (Just watch Pig's recent ESL matches and notice how he does EXRK 100% of the time within a few seconds of his opponent being near him.)

Once you block EXRK, punish with reversal EXDF2. It punishes at ANY range and leads into 32% with full corner carry.

Now he's in the corner. He is helpless without meter obviously, and as soon as he gets a bar he is going to frantically mash EXRK to get out. Block it, and punish for at least 40% or go for a reset.

This match is at least 7-3 and that's being generous. The only way Kenshi can win is to pray that he lands multiple EXRK's. And considering how predictable they are with that move, it's your fault if you get hit by it.
 
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