Rate Your Character (Mortal Kombat X Edition)!

Raidenwins said:

Do they really have a person that reads TYM and literally counts how many people, regardless of whether their arguments hold water or not, complains about a certain character and that's what they base their decisions on? Cause it sure looks that way.

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Sure. They write this game, but they have in fact no idea how it works so they check TYM for smart ideas on how to improve their best selling product^^



They may check on forums to see how people like the game and the chars, but I highly doubt that they "normalize" based on user opinions.

I would say that Capcom is stronger when designing for balance so when they put out a game they can afford to tell people to just "git gud" because most likely nothing is COMPLETELY broken in a SF title, and if it is they'll wait up to a year to balance. Unfortunately it seems like the sort of relatively... linear nature of NRS fighting games makes them seem fairly straightforward and allows for some things to seem totally broken... and it almost seems like they arent testing all these characters thoroughly internally. Predator gets 51% in the corner with a zoning variation? like really? that's just poor decision making, you KNOW they'll have to scale that damage down to bring it in line with other characters.. I mean, SFIV has a very high skill ceiling because of focus attacks and FADCing allowing characters to be a lot more flexible, MK doesn't really have anything like that other then Run cancelling and there's only so much you can do with that....Idk, the game needs more time to be adapted to and figured out, hopefully they'll leave the game alone for a while if they decide to patch after EVO again (which seems likely given recent history), then come back to it after a year of their game being played and see if anything needs to be tweaked.

This thread made me think about it quite a bit and all of the "honest" characters seem to be rated around 17-19, and I feel like the goal for NRS is probably to get EVERY character down to that 17-19 range, or maybe people would rather every character be in the 20-25 range.

FlappyDaniel said:

I would say that Capcom is stronger when designing for balance so when they put out a game they can afford to tell people to just "git gud" because most likely nothing is COMPLETELY broken in a SF title, and if it is they'll wait up to a year to balance. Unfortunately it seems like the sort of relatively... linear nature of NRS fighting games makes them seem fairly straightforward and allows for some things to seem totally broken... and it almost seems like they arent testing all these characters thoroughly internally. Predator gets 51% in the corner with a zoning variation? like really? that's just poor decision making, you KNOW they'll have to scale that damage down to bring it in line with other characters.. I mean, SFIV has a very high skill ceiling because of focus attacks and FADCing allowing characters to be a lot more flexible, MK doesn't really have anything like that other then Run cancelling and there's only so much you can do with that....Idk, the game needs more time to be adapted to and figured out, hopefully they'll leave the game alone for a while if they decide to patch after EVO again (which seems likely given recent history), then come back to it after a year of their game being played and see if anything needs to be tweaked.

This thread made me think about it quite a bit and all of the "honest" characters seem to be rated around 17-19, and I feel like the goal for NRS is probably to get EVERY character down to that 17-19 range, or maybe people would rather every character be in the 20-25 range.

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Capcom has had their blunders. Third Strike comes to mind as the huge elephant in the room. Balanced my cute little bubble ass.

Good game, but unless you were Yun, Chun, or Ken--good luck. Makoto and Urien could contend decently, but the rest of the cast was just up the creek.

I would agree that they have had their blunders balance wise, but the game (third strike) was released in 1999, not in 2015 where competitive gaming is becoming ever more present and should be on the forefront of the developer's efforts if they SAY they are trying to make the game for the competitive scene. This doesn't mean that we should expect a highly volatile product that will rapidly change (i'm not even talking about the knee jerk balancing they're doing as a result of their shit internal testing), I'm talking about the game mechanic limbo we were in the first month of release and the continuing issues with hitboxes and bugs. How am I supposed to "Compete" if half the characters dont even function as are fully intended? I can deal with characters being "imbalanced" and just learning to adapt, it's the shit where they're adding moves to character a week or 2 after release because they just... I guess forgot to give the character something in their kit? just makes it feel really unfinished. Still love it, will still play it and enjoy it as they finish their product,I just expect the road to continue to be bumpy until about a half year from now or so.

Cassie Cage - Hollywood

1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (5/5)
2. Neutral game and footsies (4/5)
3. Defensive options (5/5)
4. Zoning and anti-zoning (3/5) or (2/5) Depends on the match up
5. Damage output (5/5)

22(3)/25

Cassie Cage - Spec Ops
1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (5/5)
2. Neutral game and footsies (4/5)
3. Defensive options (5/5)
4. Zoning and anti-zoning (3/5)
5. Damage output (5/5)

23/25

Kitana - Mournful

1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (2/5)
2. Neutral game and footsies (3/5)
3. Defensive options (3/5)
4. Zoning and anti-zoning (5/5)
5. Damage output (3/5)

16/25

I'm to lazy for details

Mortal Komhat said:

Did anyone do Dragon Fangs? 'cause I'm gonna do that, I think.

Spoiler: 50/50s / Pressure - 3/5

On the first side, Goro does not have a lot of 50/50s - While everything that does not knockdown and is cancelable immediately goes into EX Fang Spin (the chief advantage of Dragon Fangs), opening them up is more a game of throw vs. hit, which is not exactly ideal. However, when Goro lands that hit, you have to do everything in your power to keep him out of your ass. He has a long-reach overhead that knocks back extremely far and hits relatively fast (Start-up of 16 if I recall correctly), can be comboed out of the corner for up to 39%, setting you back in the same situation. His pressure is tremendous compared to a lot of the characters, however, if he punch walks and it's blocked, it's the end of his pressure and now he's placed on the defensive, which is not a good position immediately after a punch walk.

He also gains db2 which is a low poke that knocks down at a decent range. It's predictable, but IIRC somewhat safe. Combined with f4 and additional range on his b12u2 (very minimal, but it's such a key component of the character that it's necessary to mention), it's a good variation for pressure, but is sadly outdone by Kuatan Warrior on this front.

Spoiler: Neutral / Footsies - 4/5

Dragon Fangs is the most footsie oriented Goro due to the minimal reach increase and the addition of db2 and Fang Spin. He already has great footsie tools that yield good damage such as f3 and f4, but one of his most overlooked amazing normals is his sweep. b4 hits at starting round range, is a 9f sweep that recovers fast and allows Goro to close the gap and apply pressure. It also low profiles High attacks, and has a big enough hitbox to hit false low crushes (read : anything that isn't hard coded to be a low crush).

On the special move side, Tele Stomp is NOT a good footsie tool - Too predictable, but it has its uses elsewhere as I will cover. Where I want to draw some attention is to his 7f command grab, which does 2% more than the regular Shokan Grab in Dragon Fangs. This has a deceptively longer range, and can catch limbs tossed willy nilly. Sadly, this has to be done on a read, but correctly baiting something into Shokan Grab is a good way to start offense from this patch onwards as Shokan Grab now grants enough time to close the gap with two dashes.

Another good footsie tool is that his dash is actually better than his run, enough that your stamina should be used for run combos only (his no meter bnb is one, so learn that!), interactables and breakers/block breakers. Granted, a good run would help Goro tremendously, but it's my opinion that he doesn't need it.

Spoiler: Defensive Options - 3/5

Goro loses points for having everything on paper to deal with aerial attacks and nothing working as intended. His uppercut is Jacqui tier, U1/U2 share the same frame data which is horrendous (and does little damage so even using it in combos is bad) and his standing 1 and 2 are fast but not good enough to stem the tide of people jumping in on him.

However, if he can keep the match grounded, his defensive options are incredible. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread to justify his rating as "He has Punch Walk" - And quite frankly just EX Punch Walk should bring this rating up to at least a 4. However, my problem with starting and ending Goro's defensive options with Punch Walk is that A) in order to use it, you need to have meter and Goro does not build nearly enough meter to support his Punch Walk habit and B) if it's blocked, you just re-surrendered advantage to your opponent and Goro's options are so Punch Walk-centric that it's easier to assume he'll do it than not, so blocking on Wakeup or after interrupting a string they expect to gap through is a great way to bust them open or have them waste meter so you can reapply your stuff.

That does not mean he's defenseless as he has two other options, and a third one in Dragon Fangs.

His anti-air of choice is EX Tele Stomp. It hits on the way up, it has one point of armor, and his entire body becomes a hitbox. He CAN be hit out of it if you hit him late enough, but that is actually impractical as most times you'll just eat 14% and be placed under Goro's pressure. As a side note, if your Goro is swag, he can U1/U2 you on a cross-up and cancel into EX Tele Stomp for not that great amount of damage to your character, but #youshouldretire level of damage to the ego.

EX Shokan Grab has one hit of armor and will stop cold anything that isn't armored. It, sadly, does not have extended range, but it's still a 19/20% (I don't remember the damage values as I do not practice what I preach and use that as a defense) reversal that now allows you to reverse the pressure.

EX Fang Spin is the true gem of Dragon Fangs - It is more damage than EX Punch Walk, can be used as an Anti-Air due to its one hit of armor, and will immediately suck in opponents, ensuring they get hit with all three hits for maximum combo damage.

However, as you can see, all of these options require meter. Which is why it's only a 3/5 - Goro is meter starved at all times.

Spoiler: Zoning and Anti-Zoning - 2/5

Dragon Fangs is the worst Goro variation on that aspect.

While Tigrar Fury's fireball can be used to set up a Tele Stomp as Anti-Zoning, and Kuatan Warrior can keep zoners in check with its Ground Pound, Dragon Fangs is a variation chiefly made for getting in people's faces (or at least in your limbs' length) - It has nothing on Anti-Zoning that warrants talking about. Goro's regular fireball is too slow for any anti-zoning or zoning respectively, and his EX fireball, even if it's a fireball that hits for 15% Mid, is too slow to start-up to warrant using in most situations (granted if you CAN find a place to use it, please do). It's similar to Shazam's MB lightning bolt - Crapton of damage, can never be used in any situation.

I could talk at length on the virtues of Tigrar and Kuatan for this, but Dragon Fangs is just weak on that front.

Spoiler: Damage - 4/5

Dragon Fangs is Goro's easiest damage - everything it does with Meter is 40%+ or close enough to it without the need for burning another meter when they're knocked down on their ass, forfeiting pressure.

It's command grab is one of the highest damaging in the game as well, with the EX version outdamaging Kano's and other people's. Where its problems lie is in applying that damage. Yet it would still have an incredibly high damage potential due to all of its tools working well together. The problem? Meter consumption, again. Fix that, and practically all of Goro's problems disappear, which may not be such a good idea when thinking about it.

Total : 16/25

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DOWNPLAYER!

Dragon Fangs Goro

1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (2/5) – Midscreen, his only real mixup is down poke/B3 into Punch walk/Fang spin or command grab, which ticks off of those pokes only (and has a tendency to whiff somewhat frequently). The downside is they can get hit by the poke and still block the punch walk/spin but if you command grab you eat a full combo. And if you land a command grab, it throws them across the screen, which really sucks given Goro's horrible mobility. In fact, everything Goro has except for sweep and 214 sends the opponent full screen. Strings and specials. You can get back in by dashing, but there isn't enough time to do anything meaningful. Also, the opponent can backdash after a command grab and not have to worry about the (extremely weak) follow up pressure after.

In the corner, he has a legit 50/50 and gets good damage from 1 bar. Still he has to use a bar or, just like midscreen, he isn't breaking 30% unless you do impractical combos.

2. Neutral game and footsies (2/5) – Goro has awesome pokes for the most part. F3 is a bit slow at 16f but the range is very good and with good spacing, it's powerful. Same for F4, which is a bit harder to use at 20f, but it's an overhead and +2 on block, which gives you a free D1/command grab attempt. The big problem is that he has no strings, so you have to be really precise with your button presses or you get blown up hard for whiffing. He has two mid starters. B1 and F2. B1 has very little range and the second hit of it often whiffs for no reason. The third hit on the launching string (his ONLY launching string) has a gap big enough to be armored through, or even jumped out of IIRC. The slow startup also means it, like the second hit, misses a lot. F2 starts up in 22 frames so it's just not useful in the neutral. None of the F2 strings launch and all the enders send the opponent full screen on hit.

As far as AA, he has none without meter except for a REALLY hard read on a crossover jump where he can do U1/U2 for a full combo.

3. Defensive options (4/5) – EX fang spin, EX punch walk and EX stomp make him a big ass wall. In the other variations, you have to AA with EX stomp or EX punch walk, which are servicable, but punch walk has a weird hitbox so they fall out a lot on AA, and EX stomp makes you use a bar that Goro needs to do anything meaningful for just 14% damage. But fang spin lets you AA horizontal jump ins and convert into full combo. (It's actually the ONLY reason I even use this variation). If Goro has meter, the opponent (if they are capable) is advised to switch to zoning, which Goro struggles with. If they have to go in, it's usually only a matter of time before they eat an EX spin or punch walk.

If you know your frame data, you can always halt people's offense with D1. It's 6f and has a lot of reach in dragon fangs. Also, people with poorly spaced jump ins get blown up hard by sweep. It's really good at 9f and one the only knockdowns Goro has that doesn't send the opponent full screen.

4. Zoning and anti-zoning (1/5) – Not much to say here. He technically has a projectile but it's horrible. You can't zone anyone out with that; it's just a check. He has nothing much for anti zoning. EX stomp is decent but many chars can throw a projectile and still move out of the way. And even if EX stomp lands, you get no combo or oki off of it; the situation is reset.

5. Damage output (4/5)– Dragon Fangs consistently gets 35%+ anywhere on screen for 1 bar. In the corner, his 50/50s are fast and both lead to the same damage so it's not a situation where you can just block the option that's most damaging. He struggles to break 20% meterless though as he only has one launching string and it's very bad.

Final score: 13/25

juicepouch said:

DOWNPLAYER!

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you right i downplay so much

but i upplay as well

in fact, i tele stomp play.

Jack Ashe said:

Cassie Cage - Hollywood

1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (5/5)
2. Neutral game and footsies (4/5)
3. Defensive options (5/5)
4. Zoning and anti-zoning (3/5) or (2/5) Depends on the match up
5. Damage output (5/5)

22(3)/25

Cassie Cage - Spec Ops
1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (5/5)
2. Neutral game and footsies (4/5)
3. Defensive options (5/5)
4. Zoning and anti-zoning (3/5)
5. Damage output (5/5)

23/25

Kitana - Mournful

1. 50/50 mix ups and pressure (2/5)
2. Neutral game and footsies (3/5)
3. Defensive options (3/5)
4. Zoning and anti-zoning (5/5)
5. Damage output (3/5)

16/25

I'm to lazy for details

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This is about right for Kitana.

Ninjutsu Scorpion

1) 50/50 mixups and pressure (3/5): His OH/Low 50/50s aren't anything great. His F2/Throw mind games are great though. His okizeme pressure with F2/B4 is a thing of beauty!

2) Neutral game and footsies (4/5): He has all the tools. Great range, a safe launcher, and safe strings that complement his play style. However, his walk speed and back dash really hurt his footsies.

3) Defensive Options (3/5): His TP is only armored on wakeup, EX TD is a waste of a bar in most situations, and his back dash is situational. His TP cancels & reversal TD are pretty useful though.

4) Zoning and anti-zoning (3/5): His anti-zoning with Teleport is decent.

5) Damage potential (4/5): Meterless damage is really good. Great with meter.

Overall score (17/25)

Cyber Kano:
50/50 pressure: 0/5
It is like salt shaker said non existent. Can't even use grab as a mixup option

Zoning: 4/5
Knives are still a solid zoning tool that can easily frustrate opponents to make mistakes

Footsies tools: 4/5
With options such as d4/ b1/ f4/ b2/ knives. He has verrrry solid tools

Defensive options: 5/5
His back dash is arguably the best in the game. His knives/ b1 aa can be an extremely good keep away option and also has excellent pokes. Also has an arguably safe armored wake up. And can jump back for free because of down ball.

Damage output: 2/5
It's bad

Total: 15/25

Seems about right

Reptile

50/50 pressure: 4.5/5
Has good options in b2 and b3 as well as good knockdown game. Also decent frame traps. Only docked .5 because of bad range on b2 which whiffs on jumpins sometimes

Zoning: 2.5
Arguably the worst in the game or is at least one of the worst forsure. Has ok anti zoning although ex slide knocks the opponent back full screen almost lol. Elbow dash allows for good mobility though without using stamina

Defensive options: 3/5
Used to be 2/5 but now has more answers with his d3 buff. But still
Has problems when dealing with pressure because of his piss poor d1/ priority on reversal dash. As well as all other options being unsafe. Has a reliable wake up though in ex slide

Footsies: 3/5
About average maybe a little above. Dash can somewhat keep people in check. B3 and f21 compliment it nicely as well. Armored swipe is a good aa as well

Damage output: 2/5
It's bad Only gets good damage from non mixup strings which are slow as well. Best punisher has bad range although acceptable meter less damage


Total: 15/25
Bad

By popular request, initial reactions to Hish-Qu-Ten Predator.

50/50 mix ups and pressure (3/5 or 4/5)

Neutral game and footsies (3/5)

Defensive options (3/5)

Zoning and anti-zoning (5/5)

Damage output (5/5)

Initial reactions score: 19 or 20 out of 25

@BrobaChett
@buyacushun
@Crusty Clown
@dribirut
@Farpafraf
@GRieVeR_SKeiTH
@karaokelove
@SaltShaker
@Shark Tank
@TheIrishFGCguy
@Vithar

Kotal Khan (War God)


1) 50/50 mixups and pressure - 5/5
2) Neutral game and footsies - 4/5
3) Defensive options - 4/5
4) Zoning and anti-zoning - 1/5
5) Damage output - 5/5

total:
19/25

Reptile (Noxious)

Impostor Shinnok

50/50 mixups/pressure 3/5 (4/5 with vortex)
you can react to his overhead and his pressure costs meter and isn't as good as pre-patch. I'd give him 4, but they nerfed his meter building too and that's really bad for his pressure.

neutral game and footsies 4/5
the d4 has amazing range and +frames on hit. the f224 also has amazing range and is perfect to whiff punishing, the hellsparks are also good. he doesn't get 5/5 only because shit's punishable without meter.

defensive options 4/5
really fast pokes make his defense quite good and a sick backdash helps too. he also has a decent reversal, too bad it doesn't hit in the air and you can't combo off of it.

zoning and anti-zoning 4/5
the tricky portal makes him really hard to zone out and the hellsparks can help keeping people out if not abused.

damage output 3/5
shitty damage until you get the boost, then it's decent. I gave him 3/5 instead of 2/5 because of the 16 percent throw.

total: 18 (19 with vortex) /25
he is really inconsistent because of his dependence on the stolen move, but more than decent.


Boneshaper Shinnok

50/50 mixups/presssure 5/5
sick! boneshaper is full of overheads that you can mix up with the low scepter that can also be meterburned for full combo and standing reset. safe low and overhead combo starters and more than decent pressure. the only weakness is that the pressure requires meter but he still deserves a full 5/5 imo.

neutral game and footsies 5/5
the range of the low scepter is just so good! the d4 has amazing range and +frames on hit and the hellsparks are also good.

defensive options 5/5
really fast pokes make his defense quite good and a sick backdash helps too. he also has a really good reversal that can full combo into vortex.

zoning and anti-zoning 4/5
he does have really good zoning thanks to his projectile, unblockable scepter thingy and hellsparks. it is possible to zone him out for some characters tho.

damage output 3/5
his only weakness. his meterless damage really sucks and his 1 bar combos aren't that good either.

total: 22/25
yep, he needs a nerf. well, NRS tried but ended up nerfing impostor and necromancer and not boneshaper himself :/


Sorceror Quan Chi

50/50 mixups/pressure 4/5
his pressure is close to unexistent, but the 50/50 mixups are insanely good and the ex rune is a really strong tool. I gave him 4 and not 5 because without meter his 50/50 options aren't safe (unlike a ton of other chars).

neutral game and footsies 2/5
same as dave said in the main post, but I value it only 2/5 considering the other chars with insane range in this game.

defensive options 1/5
same as dave said in the main post, but I value it only 1/5 considering that some chars even have block infinites on him. Quan's defense sucks so bad...

zoning and anti-zoning 5/5
quan's runes and skulls zoning is always good and once you have the armor spell out there really is no stopping you.

damage output 5/5
around 35% meterless is really good and he gets even more with meter. in the corner he even gets the sick rune trap that can insta kill with 3 bars. the damage he gets after a b2xxTrance isn't as good, but I really can't complain. thanks to his rune trap I'd give him 6/5 if I could.

total: 17 (18 if I could give him 6/5 in damage output)
is common knowledge that Quan is a glass cannon but he probably deserves more anyway. he's really good.

General M2Dave said:

but he does have the longest-reaching d+4, which starts up in 8 frames, recovers at -13 on block, and provides an advantage of +16 on hit.

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Just a heads up, his d4 is actually crazy safe. Jax is unable to punish it with Dash Punch. I haven't tested it against Lao yet.

Let's go with Sorcerer Quan. I'm leaning away from him, but still have the most knowledge with him at this point.

1. (50/50) 4/5 - Not as good as summoner completely lacking hard-to-blocks, but the true 50/50 is still there. You're more likely to set up armor portals anyway.

2. (Neutral) 5/5 - Armor portal... Bruh...

3. (Defense) 2/5 - Still can't wake up, still can't get out of the corner, still can't exploit gaps.

4. (Zoning) 4/5 - Meter drain options, excellent trading options, but not the terror that Puggles can be.

5. (Damage) 4/5 - Just short of 40% BnB's.

He's not Quan's best variation, but he's still extremely viable.

karaokelove said:

Just a heads up, his d4 is actually crazy safe. Jax is unable to punish it with Dash Punch. I haven't tested it against Lao yet.

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thats cuz its not -13 AND hes in a crouching state during the recovery frames for a quite long period of time making the dash punch touching him on the last active frames of the dash punch.
Mayor muscle which is a mid and 11 frames will punish it cuz its a mid.

General M2Dave said:

By popular request, initial reactions to Hish-Qu-Ten Predator.

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Nice write up. I too hope that his damage stays the same. At least for a while. His mixups seems reactable and predictable and he does have to spend a bar on any hit to actually get any damage off of em. I hope NRS doesn't change him until late August / early September.

To anyone: I have a similar thread but more focused on how we would group the characters according to playstyle. The goal is to have a thread to help someone find a character. http://testyourmight.com/threads/mkx-character-variety.53808/ . If anyone would feel like stopping by and sharing some thoughts that'd be much appreciated.

Predator yesterday - all of Sub-Zero's numbers, but +2.
Predator today - all of Sub-Zero's numbers, but -2.
Tremor before release - 6/5 all.

SaSSolino said:

Impostor Shinnok

50/50 mixups/pressure 3/5 (4/5 with vortex)
you can react to his overhead and his pressure costs meter and isn't as good as pre-patch. I'd give him 4, but they nerfed his meter building too and that's really bad for his pressure.

neutral game and footsies 4/5
the d4 has amazing range and +frames on hit. the f224 also has amazing range and is perfect to whiff punishing, the hellsparks are also good. he doesn't get 5/5 only because shit's punishable without meter.

defensive options 4/5
really fast pokes make his defense quite good and a sick backdash helps too. he also has a decent reversal, too bad it doesn't hit in the air and you can't combo off of it.

zoning and anti-zoning 4/5
the tricky portal makes him really hard to zone out and the hellsparks can help keeping people out if not abused.

damage output 3/5
shitty damage until you get the boost, then it's decent. I gave him 3/5 instead of 2/5 because of the 16 percent throw.

total: 18 (19 with vortex) /25
he is really inconsistent because of his dependence on the stolen move, but more than decent.


Boneshaper Shinnok

50/50 mixups/presssure 5/5
sick! boneshaper is full of overheads that you can mix up with the low scepter that can also be meterburned for full combo and standing reset. safe low and overhead combo starters and more than decent pressure. the only weakness is that the pressure requires meter but he still deserves a full 5/5 imo.

neutral game and footsies 5/5
the range of the low scepter is just so good! the d4 has amazing range and +frames on hit and the hellsparks are also good.

defensive options 5/5
really fast pokes make his defense quite good and a sick backdash helps too. he also has a really good reversal that can full combo into vortex.

zoning and anti-zoning 4/5
he does have really good zoning thanks to his projectile, unblockable scepter thingy and hellsparks. it is possible to zone him out for some characters tho.

damage output 3/5
his only weakness. his meterless damage really sucks and his 1 bar combos aren't that good either.

total: 22/25
yep, he needs a nerf. well, NRS tried but ended up nerfing impostor and necromancer and not boneshaper himself :/


Sorceror Quan Chi

50/50 mixups/pressure 4/5
his pressure is close to unexistent, but the 50/50 mixups are insanely good and the ex rune is a really strong tool. I gave him 4 and not 5 because without meter his 50/50 options aren't safe (unlike a ton of other chars).

neutral game and footsies 2/5
same as dave said in the main post, but I value it only 2/5 considering the other chars with insane range in this game.

defensive options 1/5
same as dave said in the main post, but I value it only 1/5 considering that some chars even have block infinites on him. Quan's defense sucks so bad...

zoning and anti-zoning 5/5
quan's runes and skulls zoning is always good and once you have the armor spell out there really is no stopping you.

damage output 5/5
around 35% meterless is really good and he gets even more with meter. in the corner he even gets the sick rune trap that can insta kill with 3 bars. the damage he gets after a b2xxTrance isn't as good, but I really can't complain. thanks to his rune trap I'd give him 6/5 if I could.

total: 17 (18 if I could give him 6/5 in damage output)
is common knowledge that Quan is a glass cannon but he probably deserves more anyway. he's really good.

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I disagree with the notion that they nerfed Necromancer. If anything they made it more viable than it was prior to 2 months before. His tracking is still a little off on whiffed opponents (running animation start up should still get attached with the hand, but it isn't in some strange fashion). His damage in necromancer isn't as bad as it usually cracked up to be. He really gets some good zoning/anti-zoning moves that really enhances his gameplay in that variation. You shouldn't be trying to get in your opponent's face in this variation either as it is mostly a zoning variation that can at times have great rush down options (and I say this nervously).

Overall, Necromancer is the best option for defensive options and zoning and anti-zoning and is decent on 50/50s. His main goal is to utilize the necromancer-specific special moves in a way to condition the opponent to either block the hand or grab or take a pressure with the f22, db4ex string. You can even mix that up with the foot crush ex, but it's only down fall is it's complete slow and bulky start up frames. That foot crush ex should only be used in EX and only after a HKD.

Skylight1 said:

I disagree with the notion that they nerfed Necromancer. If anything they made it more viable than it was prior to 2 months before. His tracking is still a little off on whiffed opponents (running animation start up should still get attached with the hand, but it isn't in some strange fashion). His damage in necromancer isn't as bad as it usually cracked up to be. He really gets some good zoning/anti-zoning moves that really enhances his gameplay in that variation. You shouldn't be trying to get in your opponent's face in this variation either as it is mostly a zoning variation that can at times have great rush down options (and I say this nervously).

Overall, Necromancer is the best option for defensive options and zoning and anti-zoning and is decent on 50/50s. His main goal is to utilize the necromancer-specific special moves in a way to condition the opponent to either block the hand or grab or take a pressure with the f22, db4ex string. You can even mix that up with the foot crush ex, but it's only down fall is it's complete slow and bulky start up frames. That foot crush ex should only be used in EX and only after a HKD.

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I was talking about the MBHSs block frames nerf, that I belive was aiming to hurt bone shaper, but really failed in it. necromancer and impostor are the variations that suffered the most out of that nerf and they didn't need it.

Prinz said:

Predator yesterday - all of Sub-Zero's numbers, but +2.
Predator today - all of Sub-Zero's numbers, but -2.
Tremor before release - 6/5 all.

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TYM in a nutshell.

SaSSolino said:

I was talking about the MBHSs block frames nerf, that I belive was aiming to hurt bone shaper, but really failed in it. necromancer and impostor are the variations that suffered the most out of that nerf and they didn't need it.

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True. If anything Bone Shaper finally got a way to utilize the MBHSs even after the +14 frame nerf. That made the pressure in BS, tremendously OP but at the same time leaves Shinnok super open if not careful with what is being used.