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Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

Do you think NRS patching strategy is much better this time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 74 60.2%
  • No

    Votes: 36 29.3%
  • In between overeall

    Votes: 13 10.6%

  • Total voters
    123

The Slaj Jazz

TIckle my sweet salty nips
Pretty sure all of GGA doesn't work for NRS, just 16Bit at this point?

Even then, what's the point? Did they come out and say "Hey, fuck you Bill! What do you have to say about our game?"

No... I just, don't see the personal need for that. So what if perhaps those two were testers? Arturo was also a tester, he sees things differently. Maybe they just actually prefer it the way it is? I don't... Get your point here. Not sure if I should!
I believe PPJ is an employee as well
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
"We don't want to to you to work on this game anymore re-coding and release more patches, because there is virtually is no more money flowing in from it and we'd rather devote all our resources to get Injustice 2 out on our deadline which would probably make a shitton more money than expansion releases dedicated at a few nerds on tym."

By the way I'm sure Paulo wouldn't mind balancing MKX for however long as long as they paid him for it. I don't think the designers arbitrarily stop caring about a huge project they worked on for 3 years after 6 months. Them not caring isn't particularly the issue.
So once again, you are completely confusing NRS's motivations with WB. They are two different entities. If NRS can get more patches out, increasing the quality / popularity of their game to possibly get more sales / interest / dlc purchases / larger following, WB will be very happy. It's possibly NRS won't feel they have time to do this while working on Injustice (although it thats a MASSIVE cop out), but if they choose to do this it's got nothing to do with WB. Certainly not WB saying "you are never allowed to patch this game any further we want you focusing elsewhere" thats not how publisher/developer interaction happens.

As I said, there is plenty of things you can blanket chalk up to WB because we don't KNOW if NRS has a say in it. This isn't one of them. The publisher does not have that sort of control, if NRS wants to patch to fix/improve the quality of their game there will never be anything stopping them.
 

Shark Tank

I don't actually play these games
So once again, you are completely confusing NRS's motivations with WB. They are two different entities. If NRS can get more patches out, increasing the quality / popularity of their game to possibly get more sales / interest / dlc purchases / larger following, WB will be very happy. It's possibly NRS won't feel they have time to do this while working on Injustice (although it thats a MASSIVE cop out), but if they choose to do this it's got nothing to do with WB. Certainly not WB saying "you are never allowed to patch this game any further we want you focusing elsewhere" thats not how publisher/developer interaction happens.

As I said, there is plenty of things you can blanket chalk up to WB because we don't KNOW if NRS has a say in it. This isn't one of them. The publisher does not have that sort of control, if NRS wants to patch to fix/improve the quality of their game there will never be anything stopping them.
Why would they have their employees(they're lead designers actually) spend man hours fixing and patching a game with no monetary return while working on another huge project that requires a huge amount of employees and time? Time is $$ and money spent patching a game that sees no return is not something WB probably cares for when they have a huge project that has deadlines to meet. I really doubt that WB really cares about making long term players happy after 3 years having their employees spending hours on balance patches instead of their next big money maker with no returns. Especially when they the community is going to move on to the next game anyway.

Not a coincidence that patching stop at similar time periods, it stops when the next games development cycle goes full swing, it's deliberate probably by contractual obligations. Also no, it's not trivially easy to balance one game during work hours while grinding another huge project. Not everyone who works at nrs is a coder.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
making Shinnok's hellsparks MB on block to be +24, only to change it within weeks to +14, is at least sloppy. Right, but sloppy. They need to put more thought in these things.
The move was always supposed to be +24 on block. If I recall correctly, even the in-game frame data said so on day one. NRS then realized that Bone Shaper Shinnok has turned into a mini-Tempest Kung Lao whose offense was reduced to looping f+4,1,d+2 xx EX hell sparks on block. After all the buffs, Shinnok no longer needs EX sparks to be +24 on block. Almost all Shinnok players agree.

How is that sloppy? If anything, it makes perfect sense considering NRS has been removing such loops starting with Scorpion's 2,1,4 xx FBC. Sloppy would be what happened to Jade and Kano in Mortal Kombat 9, but NRS has apparently learned from their mistakes.
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
And I will say it's pretty apparent this is the way NRS will patch their games going forward, mainly because of the limited timeframe.

I do think they can still overall improve the patching process, after all, I thought the hotfix system was meant for that as well... But I will also say, I don't think NRS games are for everyone. Same with Capcom, Anime fighters, you name it. Each company is going to do it's own thing within development, and after a few games you should know if it's for you or not.

I'm slowly starting to realize it may not be for me, but I still have fun with the game for what it is, and wouldn't discourage other people from trying it. That's why there are so many different fighting games, and why we have alternatives.
 

Hidan

Where the hell is Reiko's wheel kick
The move was always supposed to be +24 on block. If I recall correctly, even the in-game frame data said so on day one. NRS then realized that Bone Shaper Shinnok has turned into a mini-Tempest Kung Lao whose offense was reduced to looping f+4,1,d+2 xx EX hell sparks on block. After all the buffs, Shinnok no longer needs EX sparks to be +24 on block. Almost all Shinnok players agree.

How is that sloppy? If anything, it makes perfect sense considering NRS has been removing such loops starting with Scorpion's 2,1,4 xx FBC. Sloppy would be what happened to Jade and Kano in Mortal Kombat 9, but NRS has apparently learned from their mistakes.
Am I so hard to understand?

Sloppy is to give and take stuff in between weeks.

+24 on block would be wrong on any move. Especially a move which covers 2/3 of screen with 3 chances to block/hit confirm.
Even +8 would be fine. They should've known better
 
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Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
I would really like to hear both sides opinions on interactables, something that changed only from Injustice to MKX but is a major meta changer for a fighter.
 

IMakeItL00kC00L

Do not provoke a god
I mean considering that a new game is released every 2 years it gives a relatively small patching window until NRS has to focus all their attention on their next project. If that means that they have to patch early one, so be it. What would help is if there was a heads up about upcoming patches so players could get ready for whatever happens. (I know people will say "oh but NRS patches with every dlc character" and to that i have 2 things. 1. Newcomers into the scene might not know about this, putting them at a distinct disadvantage and 2. That really isn't good enough since we still don't know exactly when a new patch would come out like, say, A COUPLE DAYS BEFORE ONE OF THE LARGEST MAJORS OF THE YEAR)

And a side note: PATCHING A COUPLE DAYS BEFORE THE 2ND BIGGEST MAJOR TOURNAMENT OF THE YEAR IS A VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY BAD IDEA
 

Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
Fine in MKX
But did it take the games full lifetime to figure this out? Could the game have prospered more if they were toned down during the games lifespan? Although they wasn't tweaked in the major way from Injustice to MKX they were slightly changed to require two meter, so do changing things in smaller patches rather than large meta changes work?

I guess what i'm boiling down to is in hindsight we can label patches as great and on the other side of the coin impairing to a games overall developing meta, but I think Interactables are a good topic given there was tweaks and a big change from both titles.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
But did it take the games full lifetime to figure this out? Could the game have prospered more if they were toned down during the games lifespan? Although they wasn't tweaked in the major way from Injustice to MKX they were slightly changed to require two meter, so do changing things in smaller patches rather than large meta changes work?

I guess what i'm boiling down to is in hindsight we can label patches as great and on the other side of the coin impairing to a games overall developing meta, but I think Interactables are a good topic given there was tweaks and a big change from both titles.
Interactables are basically either free chip damage or an escape which can be easily punished if read. They went from borderline broken to a very very small factor in most matches.
 

Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
Interactables are basically either free chip damage or an escape which can be easily punished if read. They went from borderline broken to a very very small factor in most matches.
Say changes where patched into Injustice earlier on would it have potentially helped that game in the long run, but at the same time you can argue it took the whole of Injustice to figure them out.

You say they were broken but people found out ways around Interactables, through our time learning Injustice @C88 Zombieekiler went from getting hit for free, to speed dodging, backdashing and overall claiming space on me when I was trying to keep the Flash out. From the end of Injustice I used to love watching @HoneyBee work his way around interactables. So in some ways mobility could be more useful than most where in Injustice.

Keep this topic going though I look forward to wake up to replies.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Say changes where patched into Injustice earlier on would it have potentially helped that game in the long run, but at the same time you can argue it took the whole of Injustice to figure them out.

You say they were broken but people found out ways around Interactables, through our time learning Injustice @C88 Zombieekiler went from getting hit for free, to speed dodging, backdashing and overall claiming space on me when I was trying to keep the Flash out. From the end of Injustice I used to love watching @HoneyBee work his way around interactables. So in some ways mobility could be more useful than most where in Injustice.

Keep this topic going though I look forward to wake up to replies.
That was all fine and dandy but MMH could end combos with them for a free 20% damage increase. That was why they were broken.
 

declimax

extreme waifu
I think MKX had the potential to be a better game than SF4. I played a lot when it first came out even despite the terrible netcode.

Four days after the game came out, it got a balance patch. They gave Takeda a new move. A new move, within a week of launch! I thought it was a joke when I saw the headline! The next patch wasn't even two weeks later, and I had been busy with streaming other games so I hadn't touched the game much during that two week period. So it's not even a month after the game came out and already things I learned on day one are gone.

Not even two weeks after that, and this is what I'm facing:



This is not okay. This is NOT. OKAY. From april 14th to may 14th, that happened. That many changes is the kind of thing you see in an update for a game six months, or a year, or two years after it's launched. After people have had time with it to see what really needs changing. This kind of haphazard, devil-may-care attitude toward the game is what drives people away from it, because every two weeks you're playing a different game. I firmly believe there will never be true top-level play in this game because with all these patches constantly changing the playing field, more of your time is going to be spent adjusting to the changes than you can actually spend on improving your play. By the time NRS is done patching it, nobody will be playing it anymore. I'm definitely not playing it, that's for damn sure. Because it's a completely different game from the one I bought, and I don't have the patience to learn a new game every two weeks. I could spend that time getting better at games that I know my time won't be wasted in. I'd rather play the Battle Fantasia re-release on steam, because at least I know that nobody even cares about the game enough for it to get any balance patches.
 
I think MKX had the potential to be a better game than SF4. I played a lot when it first came out even despite the terrible netcode.

Four days after the game came out, it got a balance patch. They gave Takeda a new move. A new move, within a week of launch! I thought it was a joke when I saw the headline! The next patch wasn't even two weeks later, and I had been busy with streaming other games so I hadn't touched the game much during that two week period. So it's not even a month after the game came out and already things I learned on day one are gone.

Not even two weeks after that, and this is what I'm facing:



This is not okay. This is NOT. OKAY. From april 14th to may 14th, that happened. That many changes is the kind of thing you see in an update for a game six months, or a year, or two years after it's launched. After people have had time with it to see what really needs changing. This kind of haphazard, devil-may-care attitude toward the game is what drives people away from it, because every two weeks you're playing a different game. I firmly believe there will never be true top-level play in this game because with all these patches constantly changing the playing field, more of your time is going to be spent adjusting to the changes than you can actually spend on improving your play. By the time NRS is done patching it, nobody will be playing it anymore. I'm definitely not playing it, that's for damn sure. Because it's a completely different game from the one I bought, and I don't have the patience to learn a new game every two weeks. I could spend that time getting better at games that I know my time won't be wasted in. I'd rather play the Battle Fantasia re-release on steam, because at least I know that nobody even cares about the game enough for it to get any balance patches.
Its already been shown that NRS pretty much stops patches at about 6 months, so you think this game only has about 3 more months of a lifespan?

Day one patches are pretty common in a lot of games. And it seems like youre too focused on the number of listed adjustments instead of reading what they actually fixed. I certainly wouldnt be punching walls because Im seeing potential infinites or OTGs removed.
 
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Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
People are massively overstating the amount of influence the patch has on the game. The characters get minor changes for the most part. People stating that it becomes a new game and they have to relearn the whole game are incredibly disingenuous. Just tell us what you really think and move on and stop acting like NRS is re-releasing a new game every 2 weeks because its 100% not that serious. People adjust to the patches in a matter of days.

You want a perfect example. Someone said that Dvorah got massacred and she was completely different. @HoneyBee goes in to make top 8 at CEO. PLay the game like the rest of us or get out of the way and stop trying to make us feel like shit for you playing this as a side game.
 

declimax

extreme waifu
Its already been shown that NRS pretty much stops patches at about 6 months, so you think this game only has about 3 more months of a lifespan?

Day one patches are pretty common in a lot of games. And it seems like youre too focused on the number of listed adjustments instead of reading what they actually fixed. I certainly wouldnt be punching walls because Im seeing potential infinites or OTGs removed.
It doesn't matter if they "fixed" it. The point is that it's something new I have to learn and adjust to INSTEAD of getting better at the game as it is.

And yes, I think a lifespan of about 3 more months is what I would expect. That's being pretty generous, too.
 

CubaKahn

Noob
It doesn't matter if they "fixed" it. The point is that it's something new I have to learn and adjust to INSTEAD of getting better at the game as it is.

And yes, I think a lifespan of about 3 more months is what I would expect. That's being pretty generous, too.
Has to be a troll. If MK9 and Injustice had multiple EVOs I think MKX is gonna be just fine.
 

haketh

Noob
You want a perfect example. Someone said that Dvorah got massacred and she was completely different. @HoneyBee goes in to make top 8 at CEO. PLay the game like the rest of us or get out of the way and stop trying to make us feel like shit for you playing this as a side game.
And he was dropping alot of things because of the chanages & it cost him rounds. Also fucking congrats , you enjoy the game & patching style, that's great, but it doesn't invalidate those who like the game but do not like the patching schedule.
 

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
And he was dropping alot of things because of the chanages & it cost him rounds. Also fucking congrats , you enjoy the game & patching style, that's great, but it doesn't invalidate those who like the game but do not like the patching schedule.
Then play the game without your hardrive with friends. This is a progressive style and its what the developers have the right to do with their game. If you like the game and dont like them changing it, too bad. Its not fair to some people that you want them to have to suffer through 2 years of shit in tournament when they dedicate a ton of their free time to the game. Why cant you see it from their side too?
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Ultimately, we are in a lose-lose situation.

Patch the game to address apparent issues and change up characters where necessary. Lose portions of the player base as a result of leaving them unable to learn the game at its fullest.

Don't patch the game for an extended period of time and allow the players time to brainstorm solutions to nonsense like the Tanya teleports, and still lose players as a result.

The only way around both scenarios is for the game to receive long-term support and we all know that is simply not NRS's style. That or Warner Bros. imposed a time limit on how long NRS has to adjust the game where necessary.

Regardless of what route we travel, no-one wins.
 

declimax

extreme waifu
Has to be a troll. If MK9 and Injustice had multiple EVOs I think MKX is gonna be just fine.
When NRS has shown that they don't know what they're doing not once, not twice, but three times, with MK9, IGAU, and MKX, and most of the players from other games that decided to give it a chance have left? Yeah. Gonna be just fine.
 

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
When NRS has shown that they don't know what they're doing not once, not twice, but three times, with MK9, IGAU, and MKX, and most of the players from other games that decided to give it a chance have left? Yeah. Gonna be just fine.
NRS games have been at EVO for 5 years straight. Mr wizard literally stated that the patches saved Injustice for EVO. We have heard that our games will die off every single time and the only times they die is when a new one comes to take their place. Please stop spreading this propaganda about how our game will die when history has proven it wont.