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General/Other - Hat Trick Kung Lao Hat Trick Variation General Discussion

supernumian

Triborg Enthusiast
No pro here, but this variation seems useless even after the buff.
It's better but I can't see how can be viable.
EX call back is plus on block so you can use it to be safe and apply pressure and it's easier to combo after the hat hit on call back but after that, there's no real advantage on this variation beside buzzsaw/tempest.

- you still lose normals and spin. I'm fine with these if it has other pros.
- you still lose the trap if you are hit by a simple poke, so, the risk on setting the trap is very high but it's nullified by a simple D1 like Kotal's 5f D1.
- no 1hit armor on call back, so you can't force your opponent on doing some mistakes like rushing down you during a trap. He doesn't need to respect the trap.

As Tempest is all about pressure/damage and Buzzsaw is all about mix-up, this variation is all about setting trap (like MoS Raiden) but you can't really set good trap since now.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
But how is that a 50/50 though?
hey i don't know if it could be done, but maybe just maybe, the hat recovers quick enough after patch, to link the call back and the string together in one combo, as long as the hat recovers back on his head quick enough i don't see how it couldn't be a 50/50... and how you couldn't do it over and over successfully ?
 

coolwhip

Noob
hey i don't know if it could be done, but maybe just maybe, the hat recovers quick enough after patch, to link the call back and the string together in one combo, as long as the hat recovers back on his head quick enough i don't see how it couldn't be a 50/50... and how you couldn't do it over and over successfully ?
I don't think this works.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
No pro here, but this variation seems useless even after the buff.
It's better but I can't see how can be viable.
EX call back is plus on block so you can use it to be safe and apply pressure and it's easier to combo after the hat hit on call back but after that, there's no real advantage on this variation beside buzzsaw/tempest.

- you still lose normals and spin. I'm fine with these if it has other pros.
- you still lose the trap if you are hit by a simple poke, so, the risk on setting the trap is very high but it's nullified by a simple D1 like Kotal's 5f D1.
- no 1hit armor on call back, so you can't force your opponent on doing some mistakes like rushing down you during a trap. He doesn't need to respect the trap.

As Tempest is all about pressure/damage and Buzzsaw is all about mix-up, this variation is all about setting trap (like MoS Raiden) but you can't really set good trap since now.
i agree, it needs another buff, but we will have to wait till others see it.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
I don't think this works.
yeah i never tried it was just a theory. wishful thinking is more like it.,.. well i think im done with hat trick till it comes up to my standards, ill stick with Tempest/Buzzsaw or maybe just predator when he comes out;);)
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I don't know if this has been found but you can actually use the hat and call it back in combos starting with B22:

B22~DF2, DD2, F21~DF1, J3~D4, J3~D4 = 27% meterless (tight timing)
B22~DF2, DD2EX, B321~DF1, J3~D4, J3~D4 = 34% one bar

And in the corner I'm doing something like
B22~DF2, D4~DD2, B321~DF1, J3~D4, J3~D4 = 33% meterless

Also tightly timed put hat out and call back and put hat out again combos using the airtime and hit advantage of spin:
44, run cancel~F2~DF1, DF2, DD2EX, B321~DF2 = 30% + setup
44, run cancel~F21~DF1, DF2, DD2EX, B321~DF2 = 31% + setup
 

The PantyChrist

Rest in Pantiez
I don't know if this has been found but you can actually use the hat and call it back in combos starting with B22:

B22~DF2, DD2, F21~DF1, J3~D4, J3~D4 = 27% meterless (tight timing)
B22~DF2, DD2EX, B321~DF1, J3~D4, J3~D4 = 34% one bar

And in the corner I'm doing something like
B22~DF2, D4~DD2, B321~DF1, J3~D4, J3~D4 = 33% meterless

Also tightly timed put hat out and call back and put hat out again combos using the airtime and hit advantage of spin:
44, run cancel~F2~DF1, DF2, DD2EX, B321~DF2 = 30% + setup
44, run cancel~F21~DF1, DF2, DD2EX, B321~DF2 = 31% + setup
i take it you no longer hate Kung Lao?
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
i take it you no longer hate Kung Lao?
When did I say I hated him? :confused: I'm just kinda interested in how Hat Trick plays, I feel he's in the middle of the transition to variation that can compete with Buzzsaw and Tempest. Before he was pretty shit, now he's mediocre, and with the next few patches if they maybe decrease the recovery some more and give him a damage boost I don't see why he can't be a overall better/improved variation that does just as well as his other two. In my opinion anyway.
 

BLOOD CAPTAIN X

GT = SIR JAY LEGEND add me on XBL for matches
Ok I've been labbing it up with Hat trick as I normally do and it's not possible to make Ex low hat callback > B22 a true mix up. It can simply be armoured through by ex specials with fast start up.

However this set up is an low > overhead that will stuff your opponents meter less wake up attempts. If the don't have meter they have to block. If they block the low they don't have time to block the double overhead of B22 (but you have to be fast with your input, this isn't a hit confirm your essentially buffer the moves input).

I set the AI raiden to block all and he couldn't block the low overhead if he didn't use a meter burn reversal. If he did the armour would allow him to get out of it
 

CAPs

Noob
He gets to put his hat just right above himself witch is quite good. This way he forces you to fight him on the ground. And that gives him advantage i suppose.. i have no time to try it, with the buffs last patch he got oh mama..
 

BLOOD CAPTAIN X

GT = SIR JAY LEGEND add me on XBL for matches
He gets to put his hat just right above himself witch is quite good. This way he forces you to fight him on the ground. And that gives him advantage i suppose.. i have no time to try it, with the buffs last patch he got oh mama..
I've been playing this variation since launch and the buffs do help out a lot but I still can't find a legitimate use for the high hat trap. Have you found something if so please share.
 

BLOOD CAPTAIN X

GT = SIR JAY LEGEND add me on XBL for matches
this should help. enjoy
I really like your take on hat trick one thing I've found is that to timing between your EX spin > df2 > 11 > hat call back is extremely tight to the point where it wouldn't work online.

And under tournament pressure you'd never pull it off. Or is it just because I'm using a controller?

Great finds though thanks for putting in work with this variation.
 
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I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
What do we think has better Oki, Buzz Saws Low Hat, or using a Hatcall like shown in that video?
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
hmm, now that i think about it, i think buzzsaw and tempest have better oki than hattrick. The main reason being that the first 2 can crush armor easily, where as hattrick cannot.

Hatrick is the best at controlling space though, by far. Getting between you and your hat usually means either a free combo or free blockstring. Though again armor seems to cause problems for this build.


edit:

after watching that vid though its a bit better than i thought for oki, the block pressure seems amazing since u cancel from anything and be safe on block. And you can just buffer ex teleport into ex throw too if they try anything. honestly though, this would be compelete if he could spin without his hat in this varation.
 
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I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I don't know the lore of this characters magic ability, but would it be safe to assume when he sets up his traps, that it is swag running down the edges of his hat? Just dripping in swag?
 
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CAPs

Noob
As i read in one of the comments it is true that the main reaon for hat trick to be kinda sucky the armor is the problem... though the spacing also is the key and that conpensates the missing armorrl. You really need to be patient and punish into full combo or block string. It completly changes the playstyle that is opposite to tempest and buzzsaw..
 

BLOOD CAPTAIN X

GT = SIR JAY LEGEND add me on XBL for matches
As i read in one of the comments it is true that the main reaon for hat trick to be kinda sucky the armor is the problem... though the spacing also is the key and that conpensates the missing armorrl. You really need to be patient and punish into full combo or block string. It completly changes the playstyle that is opposite to tempest and buzzsaw..
Thank you someone gets what I've been saying all this time. This variation requires a different mindset than the other two. Most Kung Lao players think it's bad because that's exactly what they are Kung Lao players.

They like to keep close and pressure there opponant into pushing a button and screwing up then punishing them with big damage.

Hat trick loa is different he out footsies you and controls the zone between him and his hat. Enter that zone and your gonna get hurt. He also uses his ex hat and low hat trap on his opponents wake up by setting a backward low hat > cross up punch > hat call back.
 

Jeremy vega

Kung Lao is the GOAT
I tried fighting hat trick in the lab on very hard just to see what it can do and I know it's AI and it might not mean much, but very hard on this game is beatable but pretty ridiculous, especially with characters like Dvorak, Sonya etc.

But vs Hat trick he seemed as useless as he always does. He's entirely too limited with his hat off. Even normals like ji2 which is one of the best jump in options in the game are no longer accessible. To say Hat trick can compete at a high level in any form as he is, is a bit of a stretch.