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Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

Do you think NRS patching strategy is much better this time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 74 60.2%

  • No

    Votes: 36 29.3%

  • In between overeall

    Votes: 13 10.6%
  • Total voters
    123
MK_Al

MK_Al

Noob
Well, adding the version number and date to any documentation is obligatory in any job and should be obligatory here as well.

In general I like the patching effort, and NRS did a good job so far. Though at the same time I feel like they are going to fast; at this point in the games lifespan people seem to rate the chars more on the tournament success than on their actual tools. I also highly doubt that the mu's are grinded out to a point where we really can talk about having "no options" and "needing buffs"; not even talking about the fact that some mu's are naturally bad.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
d3v said:
Of course, it would have been better if the patch wasn't "needed" for reasons like this in the first place.

IMO, the fact that they're so patch happy makes me think that they do get careless with developing stuff.

If maybe they didn't feel the need to keep adding new shit within a 6 month period, or better yet, have a longer term plan (maybe follow SF's example of doing major balance updates every 1 or 2 years) they'd be doing a better job.
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Honestly, SF's yearly balancing method kicked them in the ass with SFxT. Partially because they waited so long to pull the trigger, partially because that patch didn't fix some of the major things people disliked about the game.

There's not always specific time frames you can do patches. It works differently depending on how the game is.

I agree, though, a lot of it feels like catching stuff that didn't get caught during the balance testing (which may be too short of a time). I feel like if they did a lot of location tests at tournaments and stuff, it would help a lot.
 
Aqueous_Echo

Aqueous_Echo

Noob
MK_Al said:
Well, adding the version number and date to any documentation is obligatory in any job and should be obligatory here as well.

In general I like the patching effort, and NRS did a good job so far. Though at the same time I feel like they are going to fast; at this point in the games lifespan people seem to rate the chars more on the tournament success than on their actual tools. I also highly doubt that the mu's are grinded out to a point where we really can talk about having "no options" and "needing buffs"; not even talking about the fact that some mu's are naturally bad.
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Now I completely agree with that. It's hard to make any notes of what works and doesn't because it changes so much so often.

To me though it keeps the game fresh. Whether that's their intention or not it makes me stay in the lab more often than just being competitive all the time.
 
SpiceWeasel

SpiceWeasel

Nothing personal mate!
What some Top Fighting Game Players droping the game after the first patch when their Char gets "normalised", so that they can´t win with their lame Day 1 Scrublord-tactics??




When a great Player don´t stand behind the game with passion and dropes it after the first few patches than fuck him. Never understood that argument xD
 
Reactions: GAV
FinalBoss_FGC

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
So, when KJ, SZ, and Raiden got nerfed people were elated but when LK gets nerfed because of a legit bug fix its not okay?

So, in short, "Don't nerf my character, nerf other characters...I'm trying to learn the game and want to have as little skill possible to pub stomp"

Don't complain about bug fixes. There have been nerfs that were ridiculous and people had a right to be angry. But this patch brought a D'Vorah buff because wtf and people are complaining about a bug fix. Smh.
 
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I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
CoRzz Jin said:
So, when KJ got nerfed people elated but when LK gets nerfed because of a legit bug fix its not okay?

So, in short, "Don't nerf my character, nerf other characters...I'm trying to learn the game and want to have as little skill possible to pub stomp"
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Actually that sounds like the opposite. The only reason to get upset about the normalizing of someone as OP as KJ was, is if you want to win using as little skill as possible... LK on the other hand was lowtier before the buffs and was still yet to do anything after, and it's taken away because of "bug fix" not for balancing purposes. Your opinion seems extremely one sided, and the second I saw your KJ avatar I realise why
 
IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
STRYKIE said:
I'd like to think that elaborating on your skepticism wouldn't be unreasonable.
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I was genuinely unsure if you where actually serious , didn't post that meme to be a dick.

So do you actually think Scorp would have less winning MU's than chars like Goro, Jason, Reptile, Jacqui and maybe Takada?
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
FireBreather said:
I was genuinely unsure if you where actually serious , didn't post that meme to be a dick.

So do you actually think Scorp would have less winning MU's than chars like Goro, Jason, Reptile, Jacqui and maybe Takada?
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I didn't play or even observe the final patch of Injustice that much, but given how badly skewed the risk/reward and general metagame economics were against Scorpion by then, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have any winning matchups by the end of it. Goro at least has a 2 hit armor resistant safe launcher unique to him, Scorpion was a poverty Batgirl all around, lol. You're better off asking Slips than me though.
 
IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
STRYKIE said:
I didn't play or even observe the final patch of Injustice that much, but given how badly skewed the risk/reward and general metagame economics were against Scorpion by then, I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have any winning matchups by the end of it. Goro at least has a 2 hit armor resistant safe launcher unique to him, Scorpion was a poverty Batgirl all around, lol. You're better off asking Slips than me though.
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Ohhhhhhh damn.....

You where on about IGAU Scorpion?
If so, shit my bad, you are 100% right if so
 
Predannok

Predannok

Noob
Pnut said:
He had a run option select that would blow up backdash and could block armored moves unless it was reptile slide or cassie flip. He also had 112124 which jailed with ex hat. Stop spreading misinformation.
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Did i mention 112124?B321 is not a true blockstring Jax MB gotcha grab can punish it with ease. Spreading misinformation my ass :coffee:
 
FinalBoss_FGC

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
I GOT HANDS said:
Actually that sounds like the opposite. The only reason to get upset about the normalizing of someone as OP as KJ was, is if you want to win using as little skill as possible... LK on the other hand was lowtier before the buffs and was still yet to do anything after, and it's taken away because of "bug fix" not for balancing purposes. Your opinion seems extremely one sided, and the second I saw your KJ avatar I realise why
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Well the only tourney since the bug was CEO and it was just a couple days after. Anyways, I was not against KJ nerfed...at first I was upset because people hyped it up too much but he's still good. I'm just saying the reaction about patches are purely subjective. Example - this patch has a Tanya nerf...arguably the hardest character to use execution wise in Dragon Naginata and people are celebrating it. LK's bug fix is a problem.

I'm more upset about this community's wishy-washy stance on patches.

We need them, that's all.
 
WITNESS

WITNESS

Worlds Famous
CoRzz Jin said:
Well the only tourney since the bug was CEO and it was just a couple days after. Anyways, I was not against KJ nerfed...at first I was upset because people hyped it up too much but he's still good. I'm just saying the reaction about patches are purely subjective. Example - this patch has a Tanya nerf...arguably the hardest character to use execution wise in Dragon Naginata and people are celebrating it. LK's bug fix is a problem.

I'm more upset about this community's wishy-washy stance on patches.

We need them, that's all.
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If it was a bug then why is the frame data listed the same as before? Doesn't make sense to me. I can call anything a bug as well
 
Zephyrus

Zephyrus

TYM resident party pooper
Aqueous_Echo said:
I see your point and raise you:

Is it NRS fault that "tournament" players jumped on the Tanya exploit bandwagon? IF they were smart they'd have KNOWN to not get too comfortable with her release state.

At that, who even wants to see EVO if 95% of the players ride Tanya? They had to make an attempt at balancing that. I mean the most percentage of that patch was tanya.

Besides... I've heard these EVO best in the world players know everything anyway so they should be smart enough to find what works and what doesn't before the big games.
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Why yes it very much fucking is.

Tanya was OP? Balance her before release. They knew very well what they were doing with that character. They launched a nearly broken character into the wild because she'd sell. She was uber strong therefore, people would buy her. Didn't take players more than one week to figure out what made her really really good. I just can't believe that nobody didn't notice she was that strong prior to her release.

Heck, it didn't take me more than one goddamn day to figure out how insane kobu jutsu was and I freaking suck at coming up with tech. I'm great at improving other people's tech but I can't come up with one of my own.

And it doesn't matter that you don't want to see a ton of Tanya mirror matches. You don't fundamentally change a character three days before a tournament. Time was spent on a character in order to increase the odds of winning a tournament with money on the line.
Now that time was wasted and they have to come up with something new in order to stand a chance of winning against other players who had their characters untouched. Must be freaking awesome to Tanya mains.
 
d3v

d3v

SRK
THTB said:
Honestly, SF's yearly balancing method kicked them in the ass with SFxT. Partially because they waited so long to pull the trigger, partially because that patch didn't fix some of the major things people disliked about the game.

There's not always specific time frames you can do patches. It works differently depending on how the game is.

I agree, though, a lot of it feels like catching stuff that didn't get caught during the balance testing (which may be too short of a time). I feel like if they did a lot of location tests at tournaments and stuff, it would help a lot.
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SFxT was doomed for the most part thanks to stupid "business" decisions from Capcom. First was the inclusion of gems and then tying them to micro-transactions where some of the best ones were DLC. Then there was the whole DLC fiasco with 12 characters locked on disc.

In addition to that, there were the things that made it confusing for TOs, such as the insistence that the game run as a 2v2 team game at certain majors, including EVO.

Even if the game were fixed to 2013 standard at the start, these decisions alone would have killed the game.
 
Slips

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
d3v said:
From Viscant.
https://www.facebook.com/Viscant/posts/879280042148772
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All due respect to Viscant, but I'm sorry MKX can't be his side-game because he can't keep up with all the broken stuff that NRS fixes.

He mentions how every the game has been fundamentally different at every major so far like Summoner Quan winning NWM, Tanya dominating CEO and D'Vorah winning Canada Cup and I'll take it one step further and mention Raiden winning Texas Showdown.

First of all, the game hasn't fundamentally changed. The only thing that changed is what those characters can do.

Are we seriously defending Quan Chi's pre-patch zoning? Are we somehow going to 'figure out' how to deal with the fact D'Vorah's f1 on hit giving her a 40% combo and on block it jailing into a 50/50? Does he seriously think players will adapt to pre-patch Raiden's f12 being a 5 frame mid that dominated footsies, set up massive pressure and also is (and still) one of the best AA's in the game? And all we have to do is play against Tanya some more and we'll adapt how to deal with her running away constantly and playing the game whenever she wants?

Hell I don't even need to mention how silly Kung Jin's meterless damage and armor was.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes when something is over-powered, it actually is just over-powered and it needs to be adjusted.

Viscant praises the patches for making the game better, then uses the patches as his scapegoat for not wanting to put in the work to be good enough to win and quits. Seriously? No need to mud-sling NRS because you don't have the time or will-power to become an elite NRS player. That's a cheap shot imo.
 
volkmair

volkmair

Noob
The problem with saying not to patch a game to close to tournaments is that the tournament calender is getting so dense your going to be close to one at some point. Also the question then if something is known to be so good that its going to lead to something like half the top 8 being the same character would people rather have that or a patch close to the event and everyone having to adapt.
 
d3v

d3v

SRK
Slips said:
All due respect to Viscant, but I'm sorry MKX can't be his side-game because he can't keep up with all the broken stuff that NRS fixes.

He mentions how every the game has been fundamentally different at every major so far like Summoner Quan winning NWM, Tanya dominating CEO and D'Vorah winning Canada Cup and I'll take it one step further and mention Raiden winning Texas Showdown.

First of all, the game hasn't fundamentally changed. The only thing that changed is what those characters can do.

Are we seriously defending Quan Chi's pre-patch zoning? Are we somehow going to 'figure out' how to deal with the fact D'Vorah's f1 on hit giving her a 40% combo and on block it jailing into a 50/50? Does he seriously think players will adapt to pre-patch Raiden's f12 being a 5 frame mid that dominated footsies, set up massive pressure and also is (and still) one of the best AA's in the game? And all we have to do is play against Tanya some more and we'll adapt how to deal with her running away constantly and playing the game whenever she wants?

Hell I don't even need to mention how silly Kung Jin's meterless damage and armor was.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes when something is over-powered, it actually is just over-powered and it needs to be adjusted.

Viscant praises the patches for making the game better, then uses the patches as his scapegoat for not wanting to put in the work to be good enough to win and quits. Seriously? No need to mud-sling NRS because you don't have the time or will-power to become an elite NRS player. That's a cheap shot imo.
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Viscant's and old school player, of Capcom games. We're used to having to deal with broken shit spending years building a meta around it (and in some cases, rejecting attempts to balance or fix the broken shit).

As he mentioned, the part he enjoys the most is the way the meta develops, when people find busted stuff and eventually, somewhere down the line, even more busted stuff that counters it. Jay comes from the Marvel games, so he's had a background of having to do this for over a decade. So for him, and many other old school players, you can't just say that something is broken or cannot be "figured" out of a week or even a month of play (no matter how many players are playing the game). Prior experience has shown them otherwise.
 
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