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Question - Scorpion Rating all scorpion variations and thoughs after the patch

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
8 - Ninjutsu
7.5 - Hellfire
5 - Inferno

Why Ninjutsu is 8 Now.
This variation wasn't used at all because he couldn't capitalize on pratical damage considered some ranges of his punishes, and he didn't had a decent comeback factor, so a lot of players risked themselves more knowing the low reward Ninjutsu could provide from a B2 or F2, which forced him to be at risk on the range of his standing normals, and being the throw the safest option

IMO the damage buff can't be ignored, he is basically one of the characters that hits harder in the game with the cost of no meter now, and getting punished by Ninjutsu will make it hurt, these first days for those who have no experience battling Ninjutsu will feel like they're in a nightmare. He might have become so threatening that i believe people will pressure even less buttons fearing he might get a good damage off his punishes now, so probably will buff his mind game strategies as well.
His meter makes this disjointed hitbox variation works similar to the same way Bojutsu Kung Jin does now, meterless damage, and bars is mostly for breakers, in scorpion case, a second restand as well and wakeups.

Buffed from Medium Risk/Low Reward to Low Risk/High Reward

Whi Hellfire is 7.5
The Hellfire had everything good, good meterless damage, chip damage, anti-rushdown moves, pressure.

The Nerf Hammer hit him the harderst, taking away his going in hard offense game, He is now a low risk medium reward character, since his pressure game now has more risks and more ways of getting out, an edge to the sword was added to the scorpion side in this department, so respekt a Scorpion playing blowing up players for not respecting his blockstring game and more so, respect those who can condition players to not press a button during the 214~fbc pressure.
This part of the pressure will feel like MK9 Kabal for some, if this happens Hellfire might still be better than Ninjutsu, but time will tell how the run cancel variation will go along the next season.

Nerfed from Low Risk /High Reward to low risk/Medium reward.


Why is Inferno 5
This one was 5 before and i don't think it is any better now, it was affected by the damage nerf as well as the cancel advantage of 214, so he lost a few % on his damage, but remained mostly the same.
Anti-Zoning, not exactly a safe pressure game aside from B121, and is more and more of a MU specific variation, to beat heavily dependent zoners to be more precise rather than something you can choose between Hellfiire and Ninjutsu.


So to me, Hellfire switched places with Ninjutsu, but not entirely since there is MU where I feel Hellfire is still the stronger asides and the block pressure didn't make much of a difference in those MUs, but now i can get rewarded more for playing footsies and capitalize my damage rather than hitting someone 6 times for him to die hoping they don't break.

Currently curious about how other Scorpion mains sees him now, so feel free to rate and state your thoughs, be wary and just don't open your salt gates here.
 

BloodyNights

"My kunai will find it's mark."
I agree with this, however I felt like Inferno was actually really strong before this patch. Only now do I feel he is weak, I'd almost have considered him right next to hellfire.

Now? 5 sounds right lol
 
Hellfire like 8.5, Ninjutsu 7.0, Inferno 5. I feel hellfire is still the most versatile variation and will suit him best across the cast. Ninjutsu is way more viable now and has the dmg it needs. Inferno still hits hard but the minions still are reactable and super punishable which is why I have it at last (that and a lack of pressure and etc. With inferno)
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Hellfire like 8.5, Ninjutsu 7.0, Inferno 5. I feel hellfire is still the most versatile variation and will suit him best across the cast. Ninjutsu is way more viable now and has the dmg it needs. Inferno still hits hard but the minions still are reactable and super punishable which is why I have it at last (that and a lack of pressure and etc. With inferno)
YEEEAAAPPP!!!
Fixed.
 

Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
I wouldn't put hellfire below ninjutsu just yet. He's in pain right now because he lost his exploitable cheese but he's definitely still viable. Imma semi-hijack your thread and put my own thoughts.

Hellfire:8/10
Ninjutsu:7.5/10
Inferno:7/10

Hellfire
The FA nerf is a big deal. It really reduces his damage, and I'm wondering how justified it was. The blockstring nerf was definitely justified, but the openness of it means there are more mixups available since the opponent has a reason to push buttons now. 214xxFBC still leaves the frames in scorpion's favor, and baiting armor now is a piece of cake. Combo pathways have changed, and it's throwing me off a little, but I'll get used to it.

Ninjutsu
The buffs are a really big deal. Before, his ninjutsu strings were all but completely useless, except for the 212 overhead which was unrewarding. Now, all of his ninjutsu moves are worth using. His b2 is a monster swipe now, and at tip range more than half the cast are unable to punish it. Because of b4, b2 and f2, his okizeme game is outstanding. In fact, he could be a contender for best wakeup pressure in the game. He's lacking in safe specials, and as a result his own wakeups are poop. Overall, I think he can take on any matchup with a fair chance, but he's not balanced.

Inferno
He took a big hit from the nerf, but people are wrongly passing him off as a shitter. His combo damage is still above average, and his combos are still very mix'n'match with spear and minion grab. Even at high levels you have to appreciate the malleability of his combos. Since 214xxdb1 doesn't jail, his pressure took a big hit because he can't cop out anymore. But db1 is still a low risk okizeme option, and low minion still wins almost every projectile trade. The overhead is a great deterrent for jumping, and when used properly his zoning is great. Opponents who think the answer is to block low at range will get chipped out by db1 for free. He's still epically unsafe, so playing him properly requires good reads, but the same can be said about all his variations.
 
Do ya guys think it's worth going for a restand after a combo in Ninjutsu? Unless ya wanna include the slow F4 overhead his only mixups are B3 and throw which is still good but I feel like going for okizeme could be very good too because of his armor breaking F2 and B4 plus going for a knockdown in a combo gives a tiny bit more damage
 

Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
Do ya guys think it's worth going for a restand after a combo in Ninjutsu? Unless ya wanna include the slow F4 overhead his only mixups are B3 and throw which is still good but I feel like going for okizeme could be very good too because of his armor breaking F2 and B4 plus going for a knockdown in a combo gives a tiny bit more damage
They can't avoid the 212/21bf4 mixup after a standing reset, which might be enough damage to end a round. They also can't avoid b121, which does just under 4% chip and is only -1 on block. The b3 reset option is there, but there is no reason for the opponent not to block low, so maybe just use the b3 option-select occasionally. I haven't played much against other people since the patch, but I'm thinking the resets should be used when finishing off opponents.
 
My original write up from the council Pre-patch.

Hellfire - 8
Ninjitsu - 6
Inferno - 6

I have Hellfire as #1 for obvious reasons. The damage, setups, meter building, etc.

I'm probably alone here but Ninjitsu as #2. It's footsie oriented and doesn't hit as hard as the other 2 variations. However, I feel like the space control, anti-armor moves, and oki are great.

I have Inferno as #3. I feel like the only advantages Inferno has over Ninjitsu are damage and anti-zoning. Even though the TP itself is still a great anti-zoning tool, but I digress. I just feel like there's not many instances where Scorp is being zoned out because every knows his weakness is pressure and a weak wakeup game. I also feel that you have to take more risks for damage outside of punishing. High risk high reward play style.

Ninjutsu - 8/10
Hellfire - 7.5/10
Inferno - 5/10

Ninjutsu has elevated post-patch. The damage buff was honestly heaven sent. It also changed MUs that I felt were 5-5 because of his damage output. E.g Bojutsu Kung Jin. Ninjutsu should be the premiere variation with Hellfire to cover specific MUs. E.g Grandmaster Subz.

Hellfire was hit hard by the 214 nerf. However, the variation is still viable IMO.

My opinion remains the same about Inferno.
 
They can't avoid the 212/21bf4 mixup after a standing reset, which might be enough damage to end a round. They also can't avoid b121, which does just under 4% chip and is only -1 on block. The b3 reset option is there, but there is no reason for the opponent not to block low, so maybe just use the b3 option-select occasionally. I haven't played much against other people since the patch, but I'm thinking the resets should be used when finishing off opponents.
You're absolutely right. Only go for the 50/50 when you're down and need a comeback.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I think hellfire and ninjitsu are equal and imo will be match up dependant.

Hellfire has the rushdown, damage and frame traps. It has forced movement with hellfire and flame aura can really hurt anyone trying to counter poke or jump at the wrong time. What hellfire lacks is range outside of flame aura, f2 and d4.

Ninjitsu covers the footsies big time. Now he's getting 34% meterless damage so he can save his meter for breakers and etc. His oki game is really strong as well. Also a better njp.
 
How would ya guys describe his oki in Ninjutsu anyway? I know you can do a meaty B4 and F2 to break their armor on wakeup and you could also just stay out their range when they hit buttons on wakeup then whiff punish with a B2/F2
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Hellfire - 7
Ninjitsu - 6
Inferno - 4

I still think Hellfire has a slight edge on Ninjitsu. Still does the most damage, still has above average footsies, hellfire forces opponent's to run into those footsies, and has the best version of his vortex. All his tools flow well with eachother making him very solid all-around.

Ninjitsu finally got what it needed most; damage. Interestingly, his meterless damage is on par with his metered damage, allowing him to use meter for other purposes that Hellfire cannot. There will definitely be matchups where Ninjitsu is flat out better than Hellfire so this variation is now a must to learn.

The damage nerf on Inferno is rough. He already had the worst footsies of all the variations, but the high meterless damage he used to get made up for it. He still has the best anti-zoning of all the variations, but in a game revolved around footsies that is not bringing much to the table.
 
How would ya guys describe his oki in Ninjutsu anyway? I know you can do a meaty B4 and F2 to break their armor on wakeup and you could also just stay out their range when they hit buttons on wakeup then whiff punish with a B2/F2
I've been preaching about how good his oki was in Ninjutsu since day 1.

Everything you mentioned is absolutely correct. On a side note, B4 should be used on KL really. He has the only wakeup that flat-out beats F2.
 
I've been preaching about how good his oki was in Ninjutsu since day 1.

Everything you mentioned is absolutely correct. On a side note, B4 should be used on KL really. He has the only wakeup that flat-out beats F2.
I find it rough timing a meaty F2 after a B3, 2, F2 especially against Slides. Seems like the easiest knd to time a meaty F2 is 212 in the corner
 
I find it rough timing a meaty F2 after a B3, 2, F2 especially against Slides. Seems like the easiest knd to time a meaty F2 is 212 in the corner
It's hard mid-screen because you're only about +10. It's easier if your opponent is cornered.

My meaty F2 setups come from 212 or throw.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I've been preaching about how good his oki was in Ninjutsu since day 1.

Everything you mentioned is absolutely correct. On a side note, B4 should be used on KL really. He has the only wakeup that flat-out beats F2.
I've been playing around with oki against non-Tempest EX spin, F42 seems like a good knockdown to have them respect your F2 option. The problem is finding a way to get F4 to connect mid-juggle lol.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Ninjutsu is very strong right now imo. We just need to see more top players break it out like some have done with hellfire. As an online warrior I still use hellfire and inferno since it's impossible to time the b2s online, as least for me.

Edit: As a day 1 inferno main I don't think the nerfs really killed the variation. It was always Scorpion's worst variation imo. Now that it's not as brain dead it's easier to see that I think.
 
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I've been playing around with oki against non-Tempest EX spin, F42 seems like a good knockdown to have them respect your F2 option. The problem is finding a way to get F4 to connect mid-juggle lol.
I used to use it as an ender to setup F2.

I'm most comfortable with Throw - RC - F2. That way you can Run stop and bait as well.
 

learis1

Guardian Cadet
I don't think any of scorpion's variations are strong simply because he doesn't have fast 50/50 mixups since his overhead can be reacted to, and his pressure strings have been badly nerfed. Those seem to be the two things contributing to top tier. I'd rate scorpion as upper mid tier, but unfortunately not tournament viable. Granted the only scorpion play I've seen is from when DJT (or is it his brother) tries him, and I've yet to see him be successful.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I don't think any of scorpion's variations are strong simply because he doesn't have fast 50/50 mixups since his overhead can be reacted to, and his pressure strings have been badly nerfed. Those seem to be the two things contributing to top tier. I'd rate scorpion as upper mid tier, but unfortunately not tournament viable. Granted the only scorpion play I've seen is from when DJT (or is it his brother) tries him, and I've yet to see him be successful.
The scorpion draw back is a good defense, but has a great neutral game, a really good air space control, his meter is mostly for punishing and doesn't make part of his optimal damage at all.
I think he is pretty viable, and sooner or later someone on a international tournament that is 100% dedicated to Scorpion will win a tournament with him, i've won one with hellfire and one with Ninjutsu post patch already, and found more room for improvement after that on the last few weeks.