What's new

Move List - Raiden ALL variants now have F12B2! (+ other changes)

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
Am I the only one wishing they buffed teleport and orbs instead of what he got? These buffs did nothing to his variation tools which is what he needed
Agreed, but we gotta take what we can get, I suppose. I don't want to sound ungrateful though. I am glad they did something to make Displacer and MoS more viable. It may not have been what many of us wanted, but for all we know there might be some reason why normal teleport and orbs can't be buffed, or at least not yet anyway.

Still, those are good buffs though. Let's give them some time and see how they affect his other two variations.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
I assume this change was made specifically for the Sub-Zero matchup. You can no longer superman his ice clone on reaction.

You can still go through it if you make a read, but not on reaction. By the time you see the clone, it's too late and you will get frozen if you try and superman.
That makes sense. It was glitch that needed to be fixed anyway. Hope that's all it is.
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
Its bad enough that Thunder God has a safe 50/50 and has insane meter building, but to now give every variation an easy safe 50/50?

B33 was very hard to impossible to hit + block confirm and I am yet to see anyone who can actually do it consistently. Now they make B34 special cancelable for an EASY hit/block confirm.

They need to remove the OS from the game or make B2 non special cancelable.

While these changes helped the other variations, all 3 variations are now at the point where none of them NEED a safe 50/50. Also, the window may be smaller, but Raiden can still Electric Fly through the ice clone. They probably need to adjust the hitbox just a bit more.
This patch doesn't help TG at all, in fact it hurts it. He already had B3, 2 in it, B3, 4 being special cancelable doesn't really give him any advantages (in TG). Displacer and MoS, on the other hand, needed some buff to make them viable and that's exactly what this patch did.
 
This patch doesn't help TG at all, in fact it hurts it. He already had B3, 2 in it, B3, 4 being special cancelable doesn't really give him any advantages (in TG). Displacer and MoS, on the other hand, needed some buff to make them viable and that's exactly what this patch did.
NO.. none of Riaiden's variations NEED a SAFE 50/50. Remove the OS or remove the ability to special cancel out of B2. I can't believe you or anyone would believe that Raiden needs a safe 50/50...
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
Am I the only one wishing they buffed teleport and orbs instead of what he got? These buffs did nothing to his variation tools which is what he needed
Well this is a huge boon for MoS, which is probably the most underrated variant in the game. I'd like an orb buff but it doesn't NEED them.

Displacer on the other hand, I'll just chock this patch up to us moving one step closer to getting a non-EX teleport that's actually worth using despite the occasional clueless up-player. You actually have a meterless combo that does damage now so EX TP actually has use other than being that thing you burned a bar of meter on before doing it again in your follow up combo.

Regular teleport shall serve a purpose soon people. Soon. The time will come.
 

delbuster

hungry
displacer is probably pretty good now because ex teleport is okay in footsies, but MOS is probably the real threat now because he can try to force the opponent to approach him and MOS/Disp gets better damage of f1 than TG. TG still has the better low option, but the others have the better f1 option IMO
 
Raiden so close to having equally strong variations. The buffs helped a lot but he still needs slight buffs to tele and orb. I also think ex lightning ball trap should go to MoS
 


You're hurting my feelings bro, why does GMSZ get to have a safe 50/50 but we don't? We also don't have your b12, I have no mid starting safe strings like TG does (b12LRCf12b3 etc) D and MOS NEED to throw the dice and risk throwing tons of mini 50/50s that lead into shocker to keep people from just duck/poking 214 and the other high strings. We also don't have LRC so our damage is lower overall.

They nerfed our ability to superman through clones, you should be happy? I felt they shouldve let it rock because raiden is a god and should be able to fly through ice statues
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Displacer on the other hand, I'll just chock this patch up to us moving one step closer to getting a non-EX teleport that's actually worth using despite the occasional clueless up-player.
Can't say I understand the shots at me, but all right. Not like I encouraged anyone to take my word for anything.

Anyway, some things I noticed regarding Raiden's new attack string in the Displacer/Master of Storms variations. For one, there is a gap in-between the second and third hits during which the opponent can interrupt with armor or backdash. So I imagine that Raiden players are going to be staggering this string a lot since F1 2 leaves you at -3, just like in Thunder God.

The third hit is also not -13 like the game says in the move list. It is exactly the same as the second hit in the Kalm Storm string (F2 2+4), neutral on block. I just did a jump test in practice mode to confirm this.
 


You're hurting my feelings bro, why does GMSZ get to have a safe 50/50 but we don't? We also don't have your b12, I have no mid starting safe strings like TG does (b12LRCf12b3 etc) D and MOS NEED to throw the dice and risk throwing tons of mini 50/50s that lead into shocker to keep people from just duck/poking 214 and the other high strings. We also don't have LRC so our damage is lower overall.

They nerfed our ability to superman through clones, you should be happy? I felt they shouldve let it rock because raiden is a god and should be able to fly through ice statues

GM does not have any safe 50/50's. B2 is -13 and combo punished. Raiden also has a higher damage output than GM.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
Can't say I understand the shots at me, but all right. Not like I encouraged anyone to take my word for anything.
Eh, I don't really consider you an "up-player" in the negative context. You're the only one who brings Displacer to tournies. Can't call you a clueless up-player, last stream I saw you on you were holding your own/at least avoiding memorable embarrassment against a Hellfire Scorpion army with a virtually variation free Raiden. It's easier for me to fly a BELIEVE IN JAGO flag than to shit on you. I just gave you shit in your other thread because I thought there was a lack of "not actually a viable variation" disclaimers which I found a little disingenuous.

I think in this thread when I mentioned the up-playing here I had a different user/post in mind. I'll find if I remember when I get home later.
 
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Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
NO.. none of Riaiden's variations NEED a SAFE 50/50. Remove the OS or remove the ability to special cancel out of B2. I can't believe you or anyone would believe that Raiden needs a safe 50/50...
Correct me if I am wrong, but Displacer and MoS did not have safe 50/50 before this patch, did they? What were his low starting options in those two variations before? The only one I can think of was B3, 3. The point being, Displacer and MoS needed Something to make them viable. My first choice wouldn't have been a safe 50/50, but it's still a good thing, as they are viable now.

I would agree that TG didn't really need one more safe 50/50, but they had to compensate somehow for yet another nerf that variation has suffered (3 patches, 3 nerfs for TG). And incidentally, that last nerf to his chip damage was quite significant. I tested it last night, before I installed the patch and after, and the the reduction in damage is 50%! He used to do 0.5% per hit before, now he does 0.25%.

I would also agree that OS need to go, for all characters.
 
GM does not have any safe 50/50's. B2 is -13 and combo punished. Raiden also has a higher damage output than GM.
Thats raw, I mean with your corner clone where you have oh/low/throw/smash. I don't think you realize how limited D/MOS are, they have great neutral games but TGs normals/lrc are what makes raiden so formidable
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but Displacer and MoS did not have safe 50/50 before this patch, did they? What were his low starting options in those two variations before? The only one I can think of was B3, 3. The point being, Displacer and MoS needed Something to make them viable. My first choice wouldn't have been a safe 50/50, but it's still a good thing, as they are viable now.

I would agree that TG didn't really need one more safe 50/50, but they had to compensate somehow for yet another nerf that variation has suffered (3 patches, 3 nerfs for TG). And incidentally, that last nerf to his chip damage was quite significant. I tested it last night, before I installed the patch and after, and the the reduction in damage is 50%! He used to do 0.5% per hit before, now he does 0.25%.

I would also agree that OS need to go, for all characters.
B2 should not be able to be special cancelled. You have F12B2 in all variations, you would still have a safe low combo starter in all variations, you just wont have a safe overhead combo starter.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Eh, I don't really consider you an "up-player" in the negative context. You're the only one who brings Displacer to tournies. Can't call you a clueless up-player, last stream I saw you on you were holding your own/at least avoiding memorable embarrassment against a Hellfire Scorpion army with a virtually variation free Raiden. It's easier for me to fly a BELIEVE IN JAGO flag than to shit on you. I just gave you shit in your other thread because I thought there was a lack of "not actually a viable variation" disclaimers which I found a little disingenuous.

I think in this thread when I mentioned the up-playing here I had a different user/post in mind. I'll find if I remember when I get home later.
I apologize for my misinterpretation, then.
 
B2 should not be able to be special cancelled. You have F12B2 in all variations, you would still have a safe low combo starter in all variations, you just wont have a safe overhead combo starter.
Its not a safe oh combo starter, its only a legit combo if i use EX shocker which makes it unsafe, most of us cancel it into normal shocker which leads to very little (its the opposite of how ex ice ball is the safer option). Also keep in mind that f12 doesnt hit mid anymore, there are TG raidens who abandoned it unless they start it while your on ground so the mid hits. We used to have a mid f1 poke and when we lost that, everyone can just low profile poke point blank and just worry about rising karma

You shouldve gotten the ex clone consistency and the other bugs youve found, and unbreakable should be heavily buffed (maybe make cryo hammer faster too so its viable) but why is it bad for the mid tier raidens to be good enough to not make us all switch to TG
 
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Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
Its not a safe oh combo starter, its only a legit combo if i use EX shocker which makes it unsafe, most of us cancel it into normal shocker which leads to very little (its the opposite of how ex ice ball is the safer option). Also keep in mind that f12 doesnt hit mid anymore, there are TG raidens who abandoned it unless they start it while your on ground so the mid hits. We used to have a mid f1 poke and when we lost that, everyone can just low profile poke point blank and just worry about rising karma

You shouldve gotten the ex clone consistency and the other bugs youve found, and unbreakable should be heavily buffed (maybe make cryo hammer faster too so its viable)
What are you talking about? He is referring to the b2 option select, you get full damage on hit and are safe on block.
There is no need to use ex shocker
 
I want the OS bug removed but hes saying b2 shouldnt be special cancelable in general, so that even if the OS bug is removed, we couldnt cancel the first hit into specials
 
I want the OS bug removed but hes saying b2 shouldnt be special cancelable in general, so that even if the OS bug is removed, we couldnt cancel the first hit into specials
I understand that you would like the option to do less damage but stay safe by doing B2~shocker and cancelling the first hit. However, the OS makes the launcher safe on block. Since the OS is staying the only real fix is to remove the special cancel on B2.

Dude.. there is no reason why Raiden needs a safe 50/50
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
B2 should not be able to be special cancelled. You have F12B2 in all variations, you would still have a safe low combo starter in all variations, you just wont have a safe overhead combo starter.
No. Leave b2 special cancel-able. Just remove the option select. b2~ex-shocker DOES serve a purpose if you're going to make a read. Sometimes you're in positions where the first hit of b2 will reach, but the 2nd hit won't and you want to make a read. A read you can get blown up for though.

Don't make b2 non-special cancel-able. Just remove the OS please.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
I'm liking the MoS buffs. I felt that this variation is meant for great neutral that supposed to lead to the control from Orbs. But he always seemed like he was missing something and I think that might be what different normals could fix that off feeling I have.

As for the OS stuff. If they stay in NRS might have to change some properties around where things like b2 aren't special cancel-able but maybe give Raiden b2 and b22. So you'd still have to commit to get the big damage or always fish and stay -7. Might even have to just make b2 non special cancel-able. I honestly wouldn't mind if after the tremor NRS releases one more patch where they address the OS in some way if they can't just get rid of it.

Still wishing they'd give us some kind of update on what's up. Even if it is that they can't get rid of it. Ask the community what they'd like to do.