Best/Worst Variations of your Main

STB Sgt Reed · Jun 5, 2015

Fraud Blank said:
Reptile:

Best - Noxious
Gives him a usable meterless special, unlike most of his other specials. The passive DoT gives him a damage boost in everything including defending from endless fitty fitties. When Poison Gas activates, it gives him a bigger damage boost in combos and throws. EX gives and even bigger damage boost.

Worst - Deceptive
It's not to say that this variation is garbage. Invis gives him a 1 hit damage nullifyer and EX Invis has armor on start-up. Complete invis can help him slightly in the neutral a bit and helps his offense a bit because you literally can't see him.
But like Nimble, Invis requires meter for it to be fully useful and with Reptile's crap meter-building and already being a meter-dependant character, it's best to save the meter for other things.

Noxious FTW

It's the only one I use. lol

STB Sgt Reed · Jun 5, 2015

Pan1cMode said:
You're wrong about brawler. It's at least as good as Hollywood if not better.

Jacqui:
Full auto
High Tech
Shotgun

Cassie:
Spec Ops
Brawler
Hollywood

Tanya:
Dragon Naginata
Pyromancer
Kobo Jutsu
(Too early to properly call this)

Sonya:
Special Forces
Covert Ops
Demolition

Hollywood, the worst??

What does brawler even give her? A blockable command grab and a high grab?

xInfra Deadx · Jun 5, 2015

STB Sgt Reed said:
Hollywood, the worst??

What does brawler even give her? A blockable command grab and a high grab?

It's an overhead so it's technically a 50-50.

Houndovhell · Jun 5, 2015

LaidbackOne said:
Kinda immature but I still laughed my ass off

I hate how half of what I say sounds immature xD its true, but I only do it cause I enjoy making people laugh

I've even lit myself on fire just to get a laugh xD wasn't a fun experience, but it was worth it :3 #memories

mhtdtr · Jun 5, 2015

Jason

Best: Unstoppable (slasher has easy combos but few options to make damage and high risk in case they block your strings). Unstoppable has a great armor shoulder move, two buffs and great opcions to preassure (low, overhead strings)

Worst: Relentless (because the best things about this variation are in unstoppable too. The reverse input is unpractical and the teleport only to use in few scenarios and with risk. There is no high reward to use the super armor move like in slasher because he has no longer and damage combos to put preassure and capitalize that)

ColdBoreMK23 · Jun 5, 2015

Jax:
Pumped Up
Wrestler
Heavy weapons

Sub Zero:
Grandmaster
Crayomancer
Unbreakable

Kenshi:
Possessed
Balanced
Kenjitsu

Raiden:
Thunder god
MOS
Displacer

Goro:
KW
TF
DF

Kano:
Cutthroat
Cybernetic
Commando

Only an opinion. I feel like all of Jaxs variations are amazing as well as Kanos and can be equally viable no matter which one is picked.

Haven't played Kenshi too much post patch but if the telepor/b3 50/50 is safer than I can see him being the better of the three.

Bender · Jun 5, 2015

ShaolinGunFu said:
We need a list of chars that are legit with all 3 variations, although some of them have one so much better that its hard not to choose them, it still should be taken into account when we finally make a tier list, because if you main a char package with only 1 high level variation you have less options than someone with 3 counterpicks

I think-

Dvorah
Scrub 0
Scorpion
Raiden
Quan?
(seems like tanya is legit in all 3 but I didnt buy her someone let me know)

Add Jax to that list. The stock character is strong and all three variations add 1 - 2 really great tools.

I say (1) Heavy Weapons
(2) Wrestler
(3) Pumped up

I know the poster above me has Pumped up as #1 and I've heard a lot of people say wresteler is strongest.

I don't think us Jax players can decide which one is strongest lol

xInfra Deadx · Jun 5, 2015

Main: Shinnok

Best Variation: Impostor

Impostor compensates his severe lack of damage due to Mimicry which hurts his other variations significantly. He is able to put the opponent in a standing state where in addition to the high/low guessing game, you can be thrown as well. An Air teleport is able to be used as well in some anti zoning situations, although this may end up becoming more of a gimmick as time passes on. It's still an important tool to use effectively if you ever use this variation.

Worst Variation: Necromancer

What do you get when you put tracking specials in a game that don't track? You get this variation. Flick does not catch runners, period...neither does his Summoned Fiend. This will leave you frustrated against character who want to be in your face...like 90% of the cast. His unblockable takes for-fucking ever to come out and can't be normal canceled at all. I still to this point have no idea how it should be played.

Bon(e)us: Bone Shaper

In this variation we get a long range Scepter Scoop which is pretty damn fast for something with a lot of range, however, from further out in launches it becomes inconsistent and suffers from the drops far too many times than I want. His Ground Pound IMO is one of his most important specials as it makes turtling against him near impossible, plus the EX version OTG's. The projectile he gains here sucks. Does not low profile, very minus on block and hit and on whiff it's death. IMO one of the worst projectiles in the game. This brings me to his BS string exclusives, F3,1,D2 and F4,1,D2 are solid (both are safe) while F2,2,1+3 sucks as it's mad punishable on block and the standing reset from this string is not worth it at all as you're neutral and up close to the opponent which is not a good place to be.

Personally with how Mimicry functions and the low damage the other two variations are, it's merely a mandate to use Impostor if you're ever going to use this character to its true potential.

TL;DR, he still sucks.

RM_NINfan101 · Jun 5, 2015

xInfra Deadx said:
Main: Shinnok

Best Variation: Impostor

Impostor compensates his severe lack of damage due to Mimicry which hurts his other variations significantly. He is able to put the opponent in a standing state where in addition to the high/low guessing game, you can be thrown as well. An Air teleportis able to be used as well in some anti zoning situation, although this may end up becoming more of a gimmick as time passes on. It's still an important tool to use effectively if you ever use this variation.

Worst Variation: Necromancer

What do you get when you put tracking specials in a game that don't track? You get this variation. Flick does not catch runners, period...neither does his Summoned Fiend. This will leave you frustrated against character who want to be in your face...like 90% of the cast. His unblockable takes for-fucking ever to come out and can't be normal canceled at all. I still to this point have no idea how it should be played.

Bon(e)us: Bone Shaper

In this variation we get a long range Scepter Scoop which is pretty damn fast for something with a lot of range, however, from further out in launches it becomes inconsistent and suffers from the drops far too many times than I want. His Ground Pound IMO is one of his most important specials as it makes turtling against him near impossible, plus the EX version OTG's. The projectile he gains here sucks. Does not low profile, very minus on block and hit and on whiff it's death. IMO one of the worst projectiles in the game. This brings me to his BS string exclusives, F3,1,D2 and F4,1,D2 are solid (both are safe) while F2,2,1+3 sucks as it's mad punishable on block and the standing reset from this string is not worth it at all as you're neutral and up close to the opponent which is not a good place to be.

Personally with how Mimicry functions and the low damage the other two variations are, it's merely a mandate to use Impostor if you're ever going to use this character to its true potential.

TL;DR, he still sucks.

We post a lot in the Shinnok forums. I am surprised to hear you say though that you think it's an absolute mandate to play Impostor. I really think Shaper is the better of the two, but I cannot refute how good Mimicry/Air TP is, though I can tell you now Air TP is his biggest gimmick and he's not even safe on it if he does a NJK, I have been d2'd out of it etc... But I don't think you can go wrong with either Shaper or Impostor. If anything, it's preference between those two to me. I think everyone agrees Necro is just...

A bill.

HoneyBee · Jun 5, 2015

D'Vorah - Very strong character because of her base set of tools with include some of the best ranged pokes for footsies, a great D2 and stand 1 for AA, as well as a far reaching overhead. She rarely needs to use meter which leaves her with plenty of opportunities to break a combo or use an x-ray. Her x-ray is a 5 frame move that can be done in the air and it's plus on block so that's also pretty great.

Swarm Queen - If we look at the roster as currently 81 variations, Swarm Queen is potentially a top 5 variation. Even with the recent damage scaling, she is still very powerful as long as the player has practically flawless execution. She's capable of getting ~30% meterless combos off of both an overhead and a low starter. Her pressure is amazing. Her vortex swarm (puddle) is also amazing for counterzoning and pressure. Her EX wasp grenade also lets her get 43% 1 bar midscreen punishes off a F11 (mid attack).

Venomous - Since characters still have the option to mash out specials and throws, her bug spray can still be easily punished. With that said, bug spray is still very strong because of the restand and vortex capabilities. I think this variation lies in the mid level/upper mid level when compared to all the variations in MKX. Possibly in the top 25-35 variation range.

Brood Mother - Her lack of bug cancels being traded for a low Krawler to help with mixups/space control doesn't really make it worth using this variation in tournament play. She fails to get the big damage she can get in Swarm Queen and her mixup potential, although good, doesn't compensate for the severe lack of pressure and overall damage that she gives up. If she had bug cancels in this variation, it would most likely be her best but without them, it definitely falls short. I would estimate this variation being in the lower mid level of all variations. Maybe in the 45-55 range.

lionheart21 · Jun 5, 2015

This is going exactly as I was hoping it would. Some really great info here.

Pan1cMode · Jun 5, 2015

STB Sgt Reed said:
Hollywood, the worst??

What does brawler even give her? A blockable command grab and a high grab?

Tic throws, better air-airs, better oki, more mixups, less meter dependancy.

It's a legit command grab and an overhead tackle.

SaSSolino · Jun 5, 2015

QUAN CHI

kind of common knowledge really, but there it is:

summoner: best variation by far. if done correctly, his grinder is almost impossible to escape from; zoning also insane. a nerf is badly needed, I feel dirty playing this. :/

sourcerer: quite hard to use properly, but also pretty solid once you put them armor circle out. his corner rune trap is also really strong. this variation doesn't need buffs, but I'd like to see a small buff to the purple spell anyway, so that maybe someone uses it from time to time.

warlock: personal favorite, but worst variation overall. this kind of is the anti-counterpick toolbox kind of variation, and here's why: the f3 makes you almost impossible to zone out, while the armor can help against those chars that are too fast for the rich homie quan. if they buff the portal grab this variation might stop being the forever secondary.

PPJ · Jun 5, 2015

not necessarily mains but just opinions on random characters

S: Swarm Queen
A: Brood Mother and Venomous

S: Summoner
A: Sorcerer
A-: Warlock

B+: Deceptive Noxious and Nimble

B+: Shirai Ryu and Ronin
B: Lasher

A+: Hollywood and Spec Ops
A: Brawler

A: Full Auto
B+: Shotgun
B: High Tech

A+: Bojutsu
A: Ancestral and Shaolin

C+: Kuatan Warrior and Tigrar Fury
C: Dragon Fangs

S: Thunder God
A-: Displacer and Master Of Storms

A: Stunt Double and A-List
A-: Fisticuffs

B: War God
B-: Sun God and Blood God

ryublaze · Jun 5, 2015

GLoRToR · Jun 5, 2015

Too early to say about Tanya but I feel that all three variations offer a fair set of tools and a good overall chance at winning.

Pyro: I consider this her weakest variant simply because this one is a one-trick pony and other two are better. We thought this was a zoning variation at first but lbsh, it's pure midscreen pressure and whiff punishment. Her mobility thrives and is augmented by the two fireballs, close and far in Pyromancer which make her an excellent mobility nuker. Shroud's armour with teleport's own is a mixup on its own when she's under pressure and her greatest weakness being that she has so many options maintains to be entertaining all the same.

Kobu: I consider this her intermediate variant because it's unsafe for a rushdowner. Still, the way this variation handles dealing with both characters who hate having to get in and those who hate having to keep the opponent out is simply entertaining. Tonfa being able to armour in two separate stages is splendid while she's really a chore to hunt down for straight-up melee'ers.

Draginata: Considered by many to be her better variation, I'm willing to call upper-mid-tier on this one even early on. Her options, many of which having been called a mere gimmick, have proven solid in local casuals so far, and it won't be too long before we'll see if this or any of the above two are really up to speed at a major or another - I hope. Draginata is just as fun as the other two but with added flair, handling itself quite well even in her hardest matchups.

tatterbug4 · Jun 5, 2015

I think kenshi's best variant is balanced still. Even with all the kenjutsu buffs it's pretty good now but that vortex is fuzzy gaurdable unless you delay the low. He does get good dmg though and is viable.

I think the worst is possessed. I think it's supposed to do pressure but it can't

cR WoundCowboy · Jun 5, 2015

Sub Zero
Grandmaster: the clone is a great footsie tool and it is even better for trapping people in the corner. It also gives sub zero frames on block.

Cryomancer: it is not as dominant as grandmaster but it gives big damage and takes away wakeups. His d2 is also alot better than his other two variations. I think it has potential in matches where the opponent minimizes the clone.

Unbreakable: the parry is a good tool but because he does not have good aa, people can jump at him freely. The ice shield is designed to stop chip, but i don't think that chip is generally a problem in this game. Worse yet, he has the low damage of grandmaster without the clone to compensate.

Shinnok

Imposter: this is easily his best variation. In some matchups he gets a vortex and in the matchups that he doesn't, he still gets a vortex half of the time. The teleport is a good counterzoning tool, that i think will always be good on a hard read. Even if they block the teleport, you get a free f4 check, which opens up your mixups.

Bone shaper
I think this variation has potential. His projectile is decently fast and more importantly, it helps him build meter. One of the main problems in his other variations is that he struggles to build meter, which is something that is addressed by this variation. Another good thing is that he can now make his low into a safe, hit confirmable string which will save meter. The potential problems are that if a character outzones him, he doesn't have many good answers. He retains his character wide problem of low damage.

Necromancer
I see no utility here. The bones have no tracking, which ruin his space control.

lionheart21 · Jun 5, 2015

RedRaptor10 said:
Takeda (my opinion)

1. Shirai Ryu
Damage: 3 | Mix-ups: 2 | Footsies: 3 | Armor: 1 | Rushdown: 2 | Zoning: 2 | Anti-Zoning: 3
Total: 16

2. Lasher
Damage: 2 | Mix-ups: 3 | Footsies: 3 | Armor: 3 | Rushdown: 1 | Zoning: 2 | Anti-Zoning: 1
Total: 15

2. Ronin
Damage: 2 | Mix-ups: 2 | Footsies: 2 | Armor: 2 | Rushdown: 3 | Zoning: 2 | Anti-Zoning: 2
Total: 15

Edit: Gave 1 point to Ronin damage. I think Ronin might be slightly worse than Lasher because if you lose your Blade in Ronin then you're screwed without having any good armor/wake-ups.

Nice breakdown.

Demon_0 · Jun 5, 2015

All of SZ's variations are viable and in no way useless, but if I had to pick his worst one I'd say Cryomancer simply because of the absense of defensive tools. Though, it somewhat makes up for that with it's heavier damage.

Compbros · Jun 5, 2015

Pan1cMode said:
You're wrong about brawler. It's at least as good as Hollywood if not better.

I'd like to hear the reasons why because I don't see them. She's better at Oki than Hollywood but zoning/anti-zoning is a complete shitshow especially without meter. Her restand gives less frame advantage than regular nutpunch. Tick throws are full punish if your attack hits. Overhead grab is good after one hit of her mixup game (F3, D+F1, B2) because it's an extra mixup but it's really negative on block on top of not having armor. The damage between the two is comparable.

Positives over Hollywood:

-Extra mixup options
-Not dependent on meter
-Better Oki

Positives over Brawler:

-Better restand advantage
-Better zoning/anti-zoning
-Ability to make F3 safe (F34)
-Free mixup (for a bar)

The way I see it, Brawler does things Hollywood can do but better (slightly or vastly is up to the player) but Hollywood does things Brawler doesn't.

Harlequin969 · Jun 5, 2015

Demon_0 said:
All of SZ's variations are viable and in no way useless, but if I had to pick his worst one I'd say Cryomancer simply because of the absense of defensive tools. Though, it somewhat makes up for that with it's heavier damage.

Cryomancer has better rushdown pressure which makes up for it's lack of defense. Imo Unbreakable is his worst just because the two tools he has aren't strong enough. In a game where 50/50s run rampent I don't think you'll gain the benefits of blocking effectively because you're constantly guessing. If it was about pressure strings then it would be more useful. The MB version is cool and damage reduction is useful but that's meter.

As for Ice parry, from what I've read, the start up is huge and it doesn't block air attacks. The MB version doesn't change much from that so the parry just overall isn't as strong as it could be for a defense based variation. Unbreakable needs more tools or his two tools need to be buffed.

Killjoy McGee · Jun 5, 2015

OK Reptile Uh let's see then.... hmmmm uhhhhhh

none of them but all of them.

Pan1cMode · Jun 5, 2015

Compbros said:
I'd like to hear the reasons why because I don't see them. She's better at Oki than Hollywood but zoning/anti-zoning is a complete shitshow especially without meter. Her restand gives less frame advantage than regular nutpunch. Tick throws are full punish if your attack hits. Overhead grab is good after one hit of her mixup game (F3, D+F1, B2) because it's an extra mixup but it's really negative on block on top of not having armor. The damage between the two is comparable.

Positives over Hollywood:

-Extra mixup options
-Not dependent on meter
-Better Oki

Positives over Brawler:

-Better restand advantage
-Better zoning/anti-zoning
-Ability to make F3 safe (F34)
-Free mixup (for a bar)

The way I see it, Brawler does things Hollywood can do but better (slightly or vastly is up to the player) but Hollywood does things Brawler doesn't.

Brawler can make f3 safe after bf3 too due to spacing.

Hollywood zoning is an absolute joke and brawler has better air control due to being able to convert off ji3.

Hollywood regular nutpunch isn't as good as brawler bf3.

Brawler's tic throws off f44, 212, 21 and d3/d4 are also legit. She can go 21~command grab (forcing the opponent to let go of block) or 212~command grab, or 212~flipkick. It's sort of like Erron's 21122 string. On knockdown she can go f44~command grab and then option select so that if the f44 hits command grab doesn't come out. Since f44 breaks armour this is great. If the opponent starts jumping out of the grab, she can mix in cartwheel or bf3. Same off her low pokes. They have to guess d3~bf3 or d3~dbf2. So a blocked low poke is a mixup for her.

RiBBz22 · Jun 5, 2015

ShaolinGunFu said:
We need a list of chars that are legit with all 3 variations, although some of them have one so much better that its hard not to choose them, it still should be taken into account when we finally make a tier list, because if you main a char package with only 1 high level variation you have less options than someone with 3 counterpicks

I think-

Dvorah
Scrub 0
Scorpion
Raiden
Quan?
(seems like tanya is legit in all 3 but I didnt buy her someone let me know)

Cassie

Best/Worst Variations of your Main

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