Question - Mileena The One Major Buff Mileena Needs. Do you agree?

So question... lets say Mileena is fine as she is. What exactly is the blueprint for "fine" in this game?
I'm only asking because I've recently seen people say Erron Black and Kung Jin are fine too. If those characters are the example of "fine", then Mileena would definitely be below that. And vice versa. If Mileena is the example of a fine character, then by that logic, wouldn't that make those other characters OP?

Maybe my suggestion of simply buffing the speed of some of her normals and faster string recovery would do it. Or maybe Chance's Low sai suggestion... who knows? I do think players, (myself included), are really concerned about keeping her from having a bullshit tool so she's "fair", but it's looking like bullshit tools are becoming the standard.

EDIT: Also, I get that everyone can "just switch characters", but what would be gained if everyone followed this? Nothing would be fixed, we'd just lose all the Mileena mains.

Im actually confused with the post so I'm going to give my thoughts the best I can. Kung Jin & Erron Black are good but they're beatable. There's going to be some sort of match up to where you have to outplay your opponent. That's any fighter.

Mileena does need fixes, but her normals are debatable. D1 without question needs to be fixed. She had slow normals in 9, but was still a beast. She also was high risk/reward in that game with a few match ups that gave her trouble, but they were winnable

Fraud Blank said:

She can already 50/50 opponents on many instances.

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Dude. No she can't. She has a "50/50" from 4 block strings that ALL require meter in order for it to even be an option in the first place.

JDE said:

Im actually confused with the post so I'm going to give my thoughts the best I can. Kung Jin & Erron Black are good but they're beatable. There's going to be some sort of match up to where you have to outplay your opponent. That's any fighter.

Mileena does need fixes, but her normals are debatable. D1 without question needs to be fixed. She had slow normals in 9, but was still a beast. She also was high risk/reward in that game with a few match ups that gave her trouble, but they were winnable

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The point I was making was that, if characters as good as Erron and KJ are considered "fine" or "fair", then how can characters who aren't in their league also be considered "fine"? (I honestly don't know how well Mileena does against those two, so it wasn't a matchup complaint.)

Her Rolls/Telekicks etc should be high risk, I've always thought that. Low Sai is unsafe, which is also fine. We both agree she needs some help, but if not her normals, (D1, D3, etc) what else could be fixed?

Make f3 22-26 frames. Slight Improvement frames on her pokes and make d1 connect constantly.

Decrease her damage output by 4-6% on her BnBs starting with F3. She gets like 40-42% no bar off that button.

Buff Ethernal somehow. MB tele causes her to throw two sais far away from her and you get to pick which one you get to pop up at? I dunno.

That'll make her upper mid, low high tier ish.

ZeroEffect said:

The point I was making was that, if characters as good as Erron and KJ are considered "fine" or "fair", then how can characters who aren't in their league also be considered "fine"? (I honestly don't know how well Mileena does against those two, so it wasn't a matchup complaint.)

Her Rolls/Telekicks etc should be high risk, I've always thought that. Low Sai is unsafe, which is also fine. We both agree she needs some help, but if not her normals, (D1, D3, etc) what else could be fixed?

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I like her D3. What do you think is wrong with it? F12 only whiffs on Raiden. Idk if that's his hurt box being too far out or if it's intentional. I assume it wasn't because it hits everyone else.

JDE said:

I like her D3. What do you think is wrong with it? F12 only whiffs on Raiden. Idk if that's his hurting being too far out or if it's intentional. I assume it wasn't because it hits everyone else.

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Well D3 is a stretch, I admit it is decent. But I was hoping for it to be her single fastest normal. Like 7f or so. Something to poke back with at 0 when you don't have meter for Roll. Maybe it won't be needed if D1 is fixed. I'm pretty sure D1 is slower startup than D3 and Uppercut as it is now.

6f D1 (that hits), and a 7f D3. Would you say that's too much?

Or what about being close to 0 on block on F23, and 21?

I can't believe the Raiden thing was intentional either.

Sultani said:

Dude. No she can't. She has a "50/50" from 4 block strings that ALL require meter in order for it to even be an option in the first place.

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It's still a threat. Giving her stronger 50/50s will only make her more annoying, not necessarily helping her problems. Faster normals are really all she needs. MAAAYBE make F3 faster but faster pokes or faster 2/B2/B1 would be better. But if those moves were to get faster on start-up, then the follow-ups have to be at least -5 because she'd turn into female Raiden otherwise.

Also fix her D1 whiffing lol wtf

ZeroEffect said:

Well D3 is a stretch, I admit it is decent. But I was hoping for it to be her single fastest normal. Like 7f or so. Something to poke back with at 0 when you don't have meter for Roll. Maybe it won't be needed if D1 is fixed. I'm pretty sure D1 is slower startup than D3 and Uppercut as it is now.

6f D1 (that hits), and a 7f D3. Would you say that's too much?

Or what about being close to 0 on block on F23, and 21?

I can't believe the Raiden thing was intentional either.

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Unless they take out option select, then for now, 21 & 21U4 are fine (all characters have strings that can be armored through). Even if they did, you could bait an armored attack with 21. F23 is -7, but not a lot of characters can punish -7.

JDE said:

Unless they take out option select, then for now, 21 & 21U4 are fine (all characters have strings that can be armored through). Even if they did, you could bait an armored attack with 21. F23 is -7, but not a lot of characters can punish -7.

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Oh yeah, I use it as armor bait myself sometimes. Not arguing that. But I was thinking along the lines of having ways to keep them guessing when you don't have an EX Roll stocked. (ie: F23 -2 on block, have D3 (7f) come out quick to check them, or get a grab attempt if they are waiting on the sweep.)

I just see how easy it is for her to get rushed down with normals, (Even Kano has faster ones and he's more of a zoner than she is), and figure this kind of thing would help her across the board without making her into a low risk 50/50 monster.

Ravenous: condition the opponent to block low by abusing low poke into leg grab (safe on block against most of the cast) then go yolo pounce/ex roll.

I'm a Ravenous player, so I certainly wouldn't say no to Low Sai on all variations.
As for whether that's fair, I haven't studied the 3 variations enough to make comment.

Do you guys really think Colt doesn't put an eye on these threads? What's the deal on tagging him into every thread that OP or someone else think needs a buff or nerf? Is Colt our personal friend now? lol

It's been said, but I would rather have 2-3 frames shed off of F3. She needs a quicker overhead for this type of game. Her F4 can stay slow and punishable.

Faster overhead and improve D1. do you think Armour on EX teleport would be too much?

I get what your saying chance but honestly I'd rather give the other variations something else. Not because low sai wouldn't help but because it would be cooler to give them something that better fits there design like low bite or better teleport for example

Sami said:

Ravenous: condition the opponent to block low by abusing low poke into leg grab (safe on block against most of the cast) then go yolo pounce/ex roll.

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The problem with this technique is that if you block a d1 it's a free counter poke regardless to whether she buffers into the upper command grab or the lower command grab. You can literally cover both options by poking. IIRC

Eddy Wang said:

Do you guys really think Colt doesn't put an eye on these threads? What's the deal on tagging him into every thread that OP or someone else think needs a buff or nerf? Is Colt our personal friend now? lol

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I tagged colt because he can't see every thread at all times. It was an OP I put a lot of thought into and explained my viewpoints with factual information. I didn't say "Mileena would benefit greatly across all variations with a universal low sai" I said she would, here is why, what do you think?

I am not besties with Paulo, I can't talk to him in person nor contact him via personal text or e-mail, so THAT is why I tagged him. If he doesn't want to read it, then he wont, but I thought I put in enough work with enough factual information to back up my viewpoints and say my case. It's his game to tweak, I just thought I would offer my own personal feedback.

TakeAChance said:

The problem with this technique is that if you block a d1 it's a free counter poke regardless to whether she buffers into the upper command grab or the lower command grab. You can literally cover both options by poking. IIRC

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My bad, by low poke I didn't mean d1 but d3, d4, etc, i.e. they have to actually block it crouching. Once you've conditioned the crouch blocks it's yolo time.

chrisofrays said:

Faster overhead and improve D1. do you think Armour on EX teleport would be too much?

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I would say so since her Ex Roll already armors through strings.

TakeAChance said:

You should really read the op! You would if you truly hearted me.

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#thirsty

R.E.O. said:

You should try out Kitana if you're looking for a character that is very plus on projectiles on hit up close.

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I wonder why she is + on hit...

Just watched the Tanya stream. I take it all back. Buff everything

What about: we can add meter when doing Mileena's F3 for 1 hit of armor and more damage? I'm also happy if it doesn't absorb half the damage haha. Currently her only armor option out of crazy pressure is ex roll, and it leads to terrible combo (less than 30%). With this meterbuurn F3 she can have > 40% damage with 1 bar use

I'm sorry but with some of these suggestions to change F3 it sounds like yall want a 2nd Ex roll with a shittier hitbox.