So you want to make a move that does like 8 or 9 damage on hit punishable on block, when it's already -7 giving the opponent a free poke or at least free pressure, because the game is F'ed up and has an unintended OS in it? I don't think that's a good reason to make shocker negative on block. Sure that would make the OS less relevant but you'd literally be blowing a move into the ground. It's not like shocker launches or anything. You don't even end combos with it because it's not that good.
Regarding ex vb... that's called the neutral game. If you don't do it it's their turn. If you do it, it's either players' turn. It doesn't need to be changed. You just said people will need to start using ex-rising thunder instead of ex-shocker and ex-vb. Then you said once they start respecting that you can go for ex-vb. How much meter do you think Raiden really gets? You keep saying Raiden is never short on meter. It's simply not true. If you're putting yourself in THAT many negative situations (holding out your charge strings multiple times to build meter), there's no reason they shouldn't have opportunities to blow you up. Not to mention that if you want to do combos that do more than 20%, you need to use ex-shocker in your combos. After ex-vb is blocked, they can also armor through your next f1. Ex-vb doesn't always leave you in range for a f1 giving them an opportunity to whiff punish, especially if you're just throwing it out at the end of a charged string which already gives good push back. You keep saying there's no reason not to throw it out. If you don't want to get blown up or don't have the meter to blow simply to put yourself at 0... you probably don't want to just be throwing out ex-vb.
Raiden is fine. Either give all characters an 8 frame or less poke, or make f12 -5 on block. Nerf his meter build (which would fix all of your "raiden is never short on meter" claims). We don't need to go changing the properties of all of his special moves. That's called an over reaction.
Dude, do you even read any of my posts before replying? How would it be nerfed into the ground. I commend you for making one good post, the last one, but now your just back to pulling strawmen.
Electrocute would be completely fine at -14 for the terrible cancel options that you feel entitled to. You're already safe at -13 from lightning strings, you'd lose one more frame, you'd get extra push back, so you could probably still continue to do your unsafe, very situational cancels that you're crying about over the prospect of losing. You didn't even attempt to refute any points I made as to why it would be fine; again you just took a paragraph to say no.
Again you don't understand complex thought. Saying people will start using Thunder Strike means people will have to respect the mid option for armor, which means if someone ever reads armor, they will have to block to be safe and so Raiden can go for Vicinity Burst more freely. And again, because apparently I need to say it again, saying I have no reason not to use Vicinity Burst, doesn't mean I use it every time I have meter. I don't know why both times I've said something like this I need to explain that I'm not literally doing it every time, or doing it back to back. Have you not seen words arranged in these orders to understand what they mean? You understand that the meta game is an over arching concept, and not just one canon game right? Rhetorical question, Woodcock.
You keep regurgitating the same point for Vicinity Burst. Did you not watch Dizzy play to see how to use it after cornering someone? He would corner carry than do a meaty B3 canceled into Vicinity Burst on their wake up. It prevented them from being able to armor out on wake up because they have to respect the 2 from B32 that will break their armor and then they were left standing at neutral where their only remaining option was to armor out, and if they didn't have meter they just had to deal with it.
The risk/reward is unbalanced because he corners you from one touch, regardless of where you are on the screen, and now he can completely nullify all of your options but one, which would force his opponent to spend meter, and still possibly be punished. All that from an anti-air move that is used while grounded against grounded opponents. But your reasoning for it being fine as is, is because it can neutral ducked to punish on read... or that it does low damage, completely disregarding the fact that, that low damage will carry you to the corner from anywhere on the screen or put you into a restand situation if you're already cornered...
And Raiden builds a half of a bar for a single lightning blockstring, that's how much bar I know he builds. I'm pretty sure I saw Dizzy breaker twice in one round once, almost back to back, just having to wait for his stamina to regenerate, because he built enough meter to breaker again, at least a bar, before his stamina fully regenerated. But I guess that's not enough meter generation in your opinion to warrant liberal meter usage in the neutral, eh?
Either way, I'm done. I refuted your points three times, giving you a lot to work off of, and you just keep saying the same things. I guess you don't know how productive discussions work either. I hope your character, that is fine, remains untouched. I'll just keep playing my alt, Kenshi, so I can actually have some fun with this game.
And good to know that my post, that I put a good amount of thought, time and effort into, is now burried somewhere in here. I wonder if Dave's thread will be merged with any of the other complaint threads; I think his main post was more comparable to the countless others grounded in nothing but negativity, than mine was to this one. I really wonder why I try to participate in this community at all.
