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MKX Pokes / Anti airs and over all mechanics comparison

Would you like to keep it how extremely different pokesets etc are? Or More improved Mk9ish system?

  • Total voters
    40
RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
This is just a curious question nothing more, but i want to know if people think the way the poking system / jumpin attacks / anti air ability / Late njk/njp frame advs (and pushback) etc are playing out and what peoples opinions are on it.

I for one (again this is just speculation and opinion) think that the mk9 global (for the most part aside from compensating for larger reaching d1's etc like kitana / and the few characters like scorpion having negative pokes) poking system and universal jumpin attacks was a good fundamental system. it gave everyone a chance to get out of pressure / apply pressure / counterpoking / and even anti airing across the cast was a very good balancing in that aspect of exposing poor fundamentals and having to really outplay your opponent in the upclose / mid ranged game and being rewarded for reading jumpins / following up after a negative poke etc etc.

I know some of these things are okay for some characters and very mu dependant. but some characters having absolutely no point using the pokesets they have, with them being 9-13 frames (aside from a few low profile ability). and some characters with OD jumpin / NJP's / NJK's (later ones with correct spacing) having ability to push back enough to where in the corner, it's very difficult to expose poor fundemntals, anti air-ability and abusing the range some people do or do not have to deal with it.

In my PERSONAL OPINION, i believe a lot of the balancing would be fixed if this wasn't how it was at the moment. If you need some examples i'd be happy to list more detailed examples of who and what is on the more rediculous sides of each of my previous statements.

but for now i just want to hear everyones honest opinions on how this is playing out as of now?

Please keep this thread civil, noone is calling for buffs / nerfs!!

its just an honest question i would like to elaborate more on, especially as a community to come together and give honest opinions, without trolling, but in hopes of solid feedback from multiple community members point of views on the subjects.

Everyone as a community come together as a family and discuss this in a civil manner. Hopefully we all come to some sort of idea on how to work toward a better understanding on how we all feel, and maybe even work toward positive strive toward a game we all will enjoy. or maybe we all enjoy it right now. Please keep the trolling down this is not for fighting or argueing! Everyones opinions and input matter in this discussion. Nobody is above anyone in this discussion. Once again!!!... We are all a family wanting the same thing and that's to enjoy the game and understand everyone's point of views!
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
This is a completely selfish reason on my part, but I prefer the current MKX system 100 times better because people online can't get away with d1 d1 d3 d3 d1 d3 d1 or d1 d1 into pressure when it's all negative on block.

Now they still have the same block disadvantage but the much larger recovery and block stun allows you enough time to react even online. So I prefer it this way.

Again, all selfish and just an online point of view, but I don't care. I like it this way. I used to get salty when people online could get away with d1 into pressure on block in MK9.
 
RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
Braindead said:
This is a completely selfish reason on my part, but I prefer the current MKX system 100 times better because people online can't get away with d1 d1 d3 d3 d1 d3 d1 or d1 d1 into pressure when it's all negative on block.

Now they still have the same block disadvantage but the much larger recovery and block stun allows you enough time to react even online. So I prefer it this way.

Again, all selfish and just an online point of view, but I don't care. I like it this way.
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i dunno about that.. i used to punish everyone who liked to do multiple d1s etc on block. i think it was harder in mk9 for some ppl because of the weirdish block stun but it wouldnt be like that in this game. im sure everyone would be able to do it easily now in mkx blockstun mechanics on pokes.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
RM AtK! said:
i dunno about that.. i used to punish everyone who liked to do multiple d1s etc on block. i think it was harder in mk9 for some ppl because of the weirdish block stun but it wouldnt be like that in this game. im sure everyone would be able to do it easily now in mkx blockstun mechanics on pokes.
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I see, so you want the general blockstun system of MKX to stay the same, but you want the entire poke moves and jumps/jump attacks to be more universal like MK9 and not character dependent?
Well yeah most pokes in MKX are slower than MK9 and having to tune your anti-airing depending on your opponent character needs a lot of work, but I think this way it would be more useful for balancing. I don't know.
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Consistency certainly doesn't hurt, but what a lot of people don't realize is that the poking system being fairly universal in MK9 was just a salvage operation/NRS playing it safe.

From what I read about when Tom Brady, Konqrr, Check, Shock etc. were invited to play test MK9 (and keep in mind they were only there for 5 days, not months in advance like the GGA guys had to work with for Injustice and MKX lol), there were tons of block infinites directly from cancelled D1s. Shang even had one from D1~Ground Skull.... let that sink in for a second :p That's probably the reason why pokes in MK9 had so little blockstun in the final release.

Personally I don't mind everyone's pokes having different properties, I think it offers a different dynamic to how to approach different matchups in close quarters. Just as long as there's a correlation to their other tools being better or worse than others at certain things. (protip to NRS, if you're gonna gonna give Kenshi sub-par pokes, it's probably a good idea to make sure he has a single digit move that doesn't involve the down button). So I definitely agree that it is causing some imbalance.

I wouldn't rule out D1s being a viable AA option in this game though. Watch some of GGA Nikolass' games with Ermac, he's already very good at converting full BNBs from anti-crossups with his D1. It could just be that we need more time to get comfortable with the "feels" of the game.

So I guess I'm pretty impartial, but I guess it will be worth bumping this thread and see what's what next year.
 
RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
STRYKIE said:
Consistency certainly doesn't hurt, but what a lot of people don't realize is that the poking system being fairly universal in MK9 was just a salvage operation/NRS playing it safe.

From what I read about when Tom Brady, Konqrr, Check, Shock etc. were invited to play test MK9 (and keep in mind they were only there for 5 days, not months in advance like the GGA guys had to work with for Injustice and MKX lol), there were tons of block infinites directly from cancelled D1s. Shang even had one from D1~Ground Skull.... let that sink in for a second :p That's probably the reason why pokes in MK9 had so little blockstun in the final release.

Personally I don't mind everyone's pokes having different properties, I think it offers a different dynamic to how to approach different matchups in close quarters. Just as long as there's a correlation to their other tools being better or worse than others at certain things. (protip to NRS, if you're gonna gonna give Kenshi sub-par pokes, it's probably a good idea to make sure he has a single digit move that doesn't involve the down button). So I definitely agree that it is causing some imbalance.

I wouldn't rule out D1s being a viable AA option in this game though. Watch some of GGA Nikolass' games with Ermac, he's already very good at converting full BNBs from anti-crossups with his D1. It could just be that we need more time to get comfortable with the "feels" of the game.

So I guess I'm pretty impartial, but I guess it will be worth bumping this thread and see what's what next year.
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yeah i totally see your point but you gotta know from that this game had tons of infinites too in beta testing from my understanding,, thats totally normal. and anti crossups really arent that big of a deal. you can ask @GGA N1k0lasss and he'll probably tell you that im very good at them myself. but the main problem is just reliable straight up anti airs for some of the cast. the main problem with the poke dynamics is you have someone like Ermac who he uses with a d1 which is relatively fast and great but -10 on block *which is full combo punishable for a lot of the cast" then you have iono, someone like ferra torr for example who has the same d1 speed but i believe its somewhere around -2 or 3 on block? where some people cant even punish a multiple d1 mash from him. thats basically what i mean by this. and the fact that some ppls pokes are slower than their normals and have no use pretty much especially in the defensive game
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I think the issue is more so that characters just have slow pokes. Which would be fine if characters didn't have things such as 6 frame mids that are -3 on block, and the fastest option is a 9 frame uppercut. In the cases of those characters, I'd fully support the idea of faster uppercuts to keep that defensive shortcoming intact, while giving them something that is at least usable defensively.

As for anti-airs, it depends on the character tbh. Some have good jabs. Some have only a d2 to anti air with. Some have basically nothing. Some have to use armor. It's relative, and tbh it's a diversity thing. Some characters just shouldn't be anti airing you with all that they have.
 
RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
THTB said:
I think the issue is more so that characters just have slow pokes. Which would be fine if characters didn't have things such as 6 frame mids that are -3 on block, and the fastest option is a 9 frame uppercut. In the cases of those characters, I'd fully support the idea of faster uppercuts to keep that defensive shortcoming intact, while giving them something that is at least usable defensively.

As for anti-airs, it depends on the character tbh. Some have good jabs. Some have only a d2 to anti air with. Some have basically nothing. Some have to use armor. It's relative, and tbh it's a diversity thing. Some characters just shouldn't be anti airing you with all that they have.
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well imo everyone should have a good fundamental ground as far as fraudulant things go in footsies.. like jumping and poor poking fundamentals with braindead presssure / 5050s .. i honestly think everyone should anti air good and be able to punish poor poking footsies. those are just 2 big things that the better player should be rewarded with in a fighting game like this
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
i'll tell you why mkx is better

because we don't have cyber sub-zero pokes in mkx. mk9 had cyber sub zero pokes
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
Braindead said:
This is a completely selfish reason on my part, but I prefer the current MKX system 100 times better because people online can't get away with d1 d1 d3 d3 d1 d3 d1 or d1 d1 into pressure when it's all negative on block.

Now they still have the same block disadvantage but the much larger recovery and block stun allows you enough time to react even online. So I prefer it this way.

Again, all selfish and just an online point of view, but I don't care. I like it this way. I used to get salty when people online could get away with d1 into pressure on block in MK9.
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I prefer mkx poke recovery too. It makes counterpoking more consistent. However I prefer mk9 poke frame data (outside of hit adv.) and the way dash blocking, pressure system, and antiairs made the poke game a central focus. And there were more normals that effectively dealt with jumping out of up close poke game.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Noob
RM AtK! said:
well imo everyone should have a good fundamental ground as far as fraudulant things go in footsies.. like jumping and poor poking fundamentals with braindead presssure / 5050s .. i honestly think everyone should anti air good and be able to punish poor poking footsies. those are just 2 big things that the better player should be rewarded with in a fighting game like this
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Mkx chars aren't systematically designed to struggle with antiair but dominate other aspects like bison to compensate. There's no overarching method behind the anti-air system and the walk system is slow(hindering whiff punishment) similarly to injustice and the run button and jumps have the adv. over defensive whiff punishment.

Normals don't have designated purpose, close anti air, ranged anti, combo starting antiair, high priority anti air. A lot of priority, hitbox es and frame data discourage anti air and often find moves with no purpose or intent whatsoever. And other normals are too powerful yielding huge dividends while punishing the opp. For blocking and trying to play patient.
 
Redk9

Redk9

Noob
"A more fine tuned mk9ish fundamental system"?

This statement rubs me the wrong way. I do not think going in the direction of mk9 in anyway should be considered fine tuned.
 
GGA Wafflez

GGA Wafflez

the kid
definitely separates good characters from bad ones... but this game offers more options for blowing up counter pokes from "od" characters w/ reversal armor moves. plus, the game isn't very footsie based, you look for some sort of frame advantage and then go for a 50/50, so it's not that big a deal unless you run into jax and you have no good options up close like takeda and quan, but they compensate w/ being able to mix you up from far away
 
Gesture Required Ahead

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
MK9 pokes weren't universal though lol. Most characters had a 6f D1 Reptile's was way slower. Only his D3 competed at 7f.

Funny how it's similar in MKX. A lot of characters have 7f D1s and there are even ones who have it at 6f. Reptile's fastest pokes are his D1/D3 which both start at 9f. Only this time he has friends to suffer with him namely the Takahashi family.
 
RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
c
GGA Wafflez said:
definitely separates good characters from bad ones... but this game offers more options for blowing up counter pokes from "od" characters w/ reversal armor moves. plus, the game isn't very footsie based, you look for some sort of frame advantage and then go for a 50/50, so it's not that big a deal unless you run into jax and you have no good options up close like takeda and quan, but they compensate w/ being able to mix you up from far away
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cough kang
 
RM AtK!

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
Fraud Blank said:
MK9 pokes weren't universal though lol. Most characters had a 6f D1 Reptile's was way slower. Only his D3 competed at 7f.

Funny how it's similar in MKX. A lot of characters have 7f D1s and there are even ones who have it at 6f. Reptile's fastest pokes are his D1/D3 which both start at 9f. Only this time he has friends to suffer with him namely the Takahashi family.
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most of the pokes were universal in mk9 and i said with a few exceptions but thats what i was gettin at.. why not perfect a system that seemed relatively good for the offense / defense games balance in everyone had options and had to out think eachother. basically impliment more onto a system that had a lot of potential if they fine tuned it.
 
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