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MY PREDICTIONS FOR THE NEXT BALANCE PATCH - POST YOURS

Epy69zSmallBoys

No respect for Kung Jin
Give every character a 50/50 and make both the overhead and the low options comboably unsafe when blocked, take away all the option selects. There you go NRS just made you game 1000000* better.
 

Redk9

Noob
It would be a shame to nerf raiden, and realize later on down the road when other characters are just as, if not more powerful, that he wasn't that strong to begin with. You guys should spend less time on TYM talking about balancing the game, and spend more time practicing so we can develop the meta and actually find out whats good and whats not.
 

FiercePhil56

Up-playing loyalist
I agree with the OP a lot. (no comment on suggested changes). Some characters are also hard to be really good with like Takeda. KaoticRaptor was awesome but even his Takeda isn't complete. Were gonna see that game get stronger.
 
It would be a shame to nerf raiden, and realize later on down the road when other characters are just as, if not more powerful, that he wasn't that strong to begin with. You guys should spend less time on TYM talking about balancing the game, and spend more time practicing so we can develop the meta and actually find out whats good and whats not.

The biggest deal to me is probably the OS. MAkes is 50/50s very OP
 

SEV

Noob
Uh no. NO NO NO NO NO. I realize that the b2 option select is dumb, but that doesn't mean we should go around making safe special moves unsafe. It's still a high and can be ducked and FULL COMBO PUNISHED. Even if you block it... depending on your character, you get a free poke and for everyone else it gives them free pressure. Don't punish Raiden because NRS has some weird option select timing in the game that they should fix. Making shocker unsafe only addresses the symptom and not the problem. Other characters have this exact same option select.
First part is just false. Electrocute jails when you OS it from B2; you cannot duck and get a free punish. Serious question: when do you ever use Electrocute on block? Raiden doesn't have a single string that you can't hit confirm into from. You don't need to use it if they block. Right now, if you're using Raiden at the highest level, the only time your opponent would block an Electrocute is when you OS it off of B2, otherwise you're just being lazy and not hit confirming. Sure it can be ducked in the neutral or on wake up, but I'm sorry if this would ruin your strategy of using it raw during the neutral game or waking up without armor.
:DOGE
What? Why can't you just low profile and full combo punish? Or just block and full combo? LOL this nerf suggestion is absurd. Ex-shocker isn't the best anti-crossup option. A lot of times it flies THROUGH the opponent and whiffs, giving them an opportunity for a full combo.
Ducking it or making it more unsafe to grounded opponents isn't the point of it, nor would changing active frames affect that in any way, anyway. And to build off your point, yes, Shocker isn't the best anti-cross up(anti-air to be more specific), but right now it covers way too many options after negative pressure. Punishes counter pressure(if not ducked), back dashes, and neutral jumps. He already has a move built specifically for anti-air, so there is no reason why it should cover this option so easily, and reducing it's active frames would allow people to neutral jump on a good read on Raiden using armor to punish, rather than being punished for making the right read.
Wtf? This move needs nerfed? I read your whole explanation and I still don't understand your complaints. You realize it's a high so you can just duck it and full combo right?
The point is the move is an anti-air but it's use when grounded is just too good because of how many options it can cover, but the main reason it should be negative is due to it's anti-wake up capabilities. Raiden already has a restand after landing a combo in the corner; why should I be able to touch you from anywhere on the screen and instantly take you to the corner, then have the ability to use Vicinity Burst to cover every option you could do: it will blow up your wake ups if you do wake up, leave Raiden neutral if you block to which he can go back in with his 6 frame F1 pressure, or if you delay wake up I get to 50/50 anyways. All that from a move meant to anti-air. Sure it costs a bar but it's not like Raiden is ever short on bar.
EVERYBODY CALM DOWN. IT IS NO SURPRISE THAT PEOPLE ARE SCREAMING NERF THE CHARACTER THAT JUST WON THE FIRST BIG TOURNAMENT.
Dude, I have main'ed Raiden from day one. If you've been playing him for any period of time at all you should know the character is extremely good. And no one is screaming for Raiden nerfs any how. I'm owning up to the fact that some of my tools are too strong and can cover too many options. Right now you can literally Vicinity Burst after any lightning string and cover every possible option while leaving you plus enough to pressure if they block, or spaced well enough from the lightning to be safe from whiff punishes if they duck it. Sounds fair to me, right? This isn't even a nerf Raiden thread anyway, but I guess that's the only point you took from my long, well-thought-out post.
 
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SEV

Noob
If SonicFox had won the last round, would this thread had a list about Erron Black nerfs instead?
No, because I don't main Erron Black, and I'm not going to talk out of my ass if I don't know what I'm talking about.

I guess you didn't read the greater majority of my post to make a comment like that anyway, but you're "known" in this community, so you can make that type of comment regardless and get almost everyone to agree with you; that seems to be how most things have gone around here for the past two years that I've used this site anyhow.
 
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ciaran carrick

Lars a noob
If anyone thinks F12 is 'fine' you're downplaying so hard its pathetic
Its almost as bad (Almost) as saying Supermans F23 was fine.

Changing to -5 is a slap on the wrist, most people would be up for Changing F1 to a high.

Remember that Kenshi player at Combo breaker? had 1 option in the corner with no meter to get out: Unsafe D2.

Just for the record, I'd rather see the game receive NO changes for a period of time (2-6months) exempting fixes.
 
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If Raiden gets to keep his electrocute safe I want Johnny's shadow kick the same. The same frames on block adv.
Why shouldn't I be able to end all my bad reads in a safe move and not give a shit about the opponent as well?
You should. That's bad johnny design, not bad raiden design. But maybe not shadow kick since it travels full screen. That would be like raidens superman being safe
 
SMH at the people thinking OS are fine: Raidens OS turns a -63 move into -7 the electrocute which is actually a high can't be ducked cuz the overhead jails.
Rewatch combo breaker dizzy was doing it basically making the only thing you could punish aside from superman safe.

If u think raiden is fine i demand NRS to remove all the string gaps of characters like Jax, Kung lao or cassie and give them to Erron Black and Raiden :).
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
OP, seriously?! Did you do a thorough analysis of every character's tools and compare each one of those to Raiden's and explore every possible combination of suggested nerfs versus real match application, or do you perhaps have access to half a dozen testers and all of you sat down and explored every single of your suggested nurfs in every match up to ensure that you didn't over nurf Raiden, and in the process promote some other character to over-powered status, (cough ** Kabal ** cough)? If not, you are just spouting off dry theory, without any real world evidence to back it up. It's a shame that even a Raiden player was so influenced by the "nerf Raiden" mob mentality that their knee jerk reaction would be to make their own character weaker.

The only real world evidence we have is that his F1, 2 can be over powering and hard to deal with, even though it can definitely be countered, as demonstrated by Alucard, REO, and SonicFox at a recent major tournament. As such, I don't disagree with your first suggestion, even though I think it is too early to consider it. We need more practical knowledge before such a decision can be made. The other ones are unnecessary.

At this point, nothing needs to be done to any character. There was an immense diversity of character representation at Combo Breaker Top 16 and Top 8, which shows many more characters, than people currently believe, have the necessary tools to compete at a high level. What needs to be done is allow the game to evolve and see what strategies people come up with with their characters to counter the current "top tiers".
 
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