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Match Footage - Raiden MIT using Raiden in YOMI finals

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
This entire game is very 50/50 oriented. That's not just a raiden thing. His standing resets do work midscreen, but you have to use meter to continue the combo. You don't have enough stamina to loop it even once midscreen without meter after doing a LRC. The corner is where you get the meterless resets that do like 20% damage.

Standing resets are rough man. Literally the biggest difference between thundergod and the other 2 variations is that TG has a string off of f1/fireball cancels and the other variations don't have that.
it isn't the string... its the standing reset. That puts you in the drivers seat all the time.
There is no need to loop it more than once... because if you land the standing reset... .the next combo is going to the wall, from pretty much anywhere you start the first combo.

He takes advantage of all the MKX tools right now. Only Turok Jin can do the same.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I don't know the details to refute the kano thing. What was b1 on block and was was the follow up? Another b1? What was the startup?
9f start up, mid, 0 on block, both characters recover fast on block. You could follow up on block with another B1, B13 for a -1 string, B1 laser for a combo or -10 on block, or B13 laser for either a combo or -10 on block.

Yet it was nerfed hard because "Quan Chi and Takeda couldn't get out". So now it's negative enough to be punished clean if you try two B1's, I could take a plane to Taiwan and be back before the recovery animations on block have finished, and it's usage as a pressure tool has dimished considerably to say the least.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Good lord to everyone who thinks the string is the problem

if you can't SEE that the standing reset IS THE PROBLEM...... you need to re-evaluate how you watch matches. It literally takes all skill out of the game at that point of a match. The defenders ONLY option is to guess block a 50/50 that can't be fuzzied proper.
 

coolwhip

Noob
Every character has mixups. Raiden's damage is reasonable. His resets do like 20% or so unless you use meter. Every character has armor. Option selects are retarded and shouldn't be in the game and that's not just a raiden thing. Pretty much every character has decent option selects. Everyone is just over reacting because raiden won the first big tournament.
No offense but the "every character has X or Y" argument always bothers me. Just because every character has something doesn't mean it's equally fair or unfair, because not every character has the same complementary tools.

So when you look at everything Raiden has (chip, ridiculous meter building, really good armored moves, one of the best normals in the game, 50/50's etc...) AND you add in a safe-ish overhead, it becomes a huge problem.

Just as an example, Kung Lao having the ability to do b2~spin as an option select is not nearly as big a problem.
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
There is a huge difference between a 9 and 6 frame launcher, I think you know that lol. It can be low profiled but not if you finish the string, so its a huge risk to try that. Backdashing doesnt work in the corner which is where the string is more of a problem for people.
Yeah there's a difference between 6 frame starters and 9 frame starters. 6 frames is faster than 9 frames, but that's not the argument here. The argument is that "some characters can't poke out." So if we're using the context that "characters can't poke out" then it's no different than a scenario where you're both at 0 and someone uses a 9 frame mid. Or a character is at +3 and used a 12 frame mid. You can move it around all you want.
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Good lord to everyone who thinks the string is the problem

if you can't SEE that the standing reset IS THE PROBLEM...... you need to re-evaluate how you watch matches. It literally takes all skill out of the game at that point of a match. The defenders ONLY option is to guess block a 50/50 that can't be fuzzied proper.
So raiden is the only character in the game that has an unseeable 50/50?
 

coolwhip

Noob
Good lord to everyone who thinks the string is the problem

if you can't SEE that the standing reset IS THE PROBLEM...... you need to re-evaluate how you watch matches. It literally takes all skill out of the game at that point of a match. The defenders ONLY option is to guess block a 50/50 that can't be fuzzied proper.
Problem is your posts on this matter lately seem to suggest that the game starts and you're automatically stuck in a 50/50 situation.
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
No offense but the "every character has X or Y" argument always bothers me. Just because every character has something doesn't mean it's equally fair or unfair, because not every character has the same complementary tools.

So when you look at everything Raiden has (chip, ridiculous meter building, really good armored moves, one of the best normals in the game, 50/50's etc...) AND you add in a safe-ish overhead, it becomes a huge problem.

Just as an example, Kung Lao having the ability to do b2~spin as an option select is not nearly as big a problem.
Raiden has some chip and good meter building... yes. I assume you're talking about his fully charged strings. The ones that leave him at -8 or -12? Do you see where there MIGHT be a bit of a tradeoff? I'd be fine with nerfing the chip AND meter building on his charged strings. Perfectly fine with it.

As far as 50/50's go... it wasn't my choice to make this game about 50/50s. I'd have done it differently. But I don't think his 50/50 needs to be touched. His overhead option is SUPPOSED to be hella punishable. His low option leaves him at -8.

The option select is retarded and I wish it wasn't in the game. Super dumb.

I don't see the big deal with raiden's armored moves. ex-vb and ex-shocker are both highs that can be ducked and punished. ex-shocker is -13 on block. ex-rising god is hella minus on block. ex-superman is full combo on block but is fast advancing and 13 frames startup.

Am I not reasonable here?
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Does that somehow make it any less broken?
No. But if you're going to cry about raiden having an unseeable 50/50... then you better also be crying about the other characters' unseeable 50/50s.

I agree that a game revolved around 50/50s is dumb. But that's what we have and other characters have them too.
 
Does that somehow make it any less broken?
Yes. Why take away just Raiden's when everyone else has them? People are flipping shit about Raiden just because he won a tournament. How many other Raidens were at combo breaker? How many made top 8? Has anyone thought that it might just be the player? Dizzy is really good. Raiden is definitely top tier, but the truth is that he is not miles ahead of the rest of the cast like batgirl and martian were.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Problem is your posts on this matter lately seem to suggest that the game starts and you're automatically stuck in a 50/50 situation.
Not a single one of my posts ever indicates this and is simply what you "think" i'm saying.

That is just you putting words into my mouth.
 

coolwhip

Noob
Not a single one of my posts ever indicates this and is simply what you "think" i'm saying.

That is just you putting words into my mouth.
Your post flat out implies that the standing reset is a bigger problem than the tools that allow him to set-up that situation to begin with, so no, I'm not putting anything anywhere.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
@Chaosphere you're trying to pull off a Tom Brady here.

You should just learn from Tom's experience and know that no matter how hard you try to convince people he isn't broken, Raiden will eventually get nerfed.

It's coming. Embrace it.

GGs.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
So raiden is the only character in the game that has an unseeable 50/50?
How is it that you completely ignored the point of my post?

Anyone that has the potential to create the standing reset into 50/50 is going to be strong in this game. Unless the frames on the character are just so bad they can't do anything in any neutral (which isn't the case), that character will be a strong force.

Raiden is one of them.

I never once stated anything about him being the only one to do any of these things.
 

Epy69zSmallBoys

No respect for Kung Jin
No. But if you're going to cry about raiden having an unseeable 50/50... then you better also be crying about the other characters' unseeable 50/50s.

I agree that a game revolved around 50/50s is dumb. But that's what we have and other characters have them too.
That's just it though, I do cry about other's 50/50s and I cry that my main doesn't have one. Honestly if NRS gave everyone a 50/50 option with both the overhead and low options being unsafe on block, this game would be DRASTICALLY improved. Then it is truly a mind vs mind game, not me vs a coin flip with an option select.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Your post flat out implies that the standing reset is a bigger problem than the tools that allow him to set-up that situation to begin with, so no, I'm not putting anything anywhere.
If he didn't have the standing reset, then his combo's would end in knock downs which gives the defender vastly superior options than to be in the re-stand position.

So yes... the restand truly IS the problem.
 
quan chi and takeda get locked down in the corner so they must nerf all pressure in the game? It is already very "your turn my turn". Instead of nerfing f1,2 how about giving quan and takeda a faster poke.
 

Epy69zSmallBoys

No respect for Kung Jin
Yes. Why take away just Raiden's when everyone else has them? People are flipping shit about Raiden just because he won a tournament. How many other Raidens were at combo breaker? How many made top 8? Has anyone thought that it might just be the player? Dizzy is really good. Raiden is definitely top tier, but the truth is that he is not miles ahead of the rest of the cast like batgirl and martian were.
Because not everyone else has them, and the ones that do (especially option selects ones) need to be fully punishable. You should get comboed for guessing wrong, because the one on defence gets comboed or you make your string safe, completely unfair and broken in any character. Dizzy is an amazing player, but you didn't see him use Cage did you? Be honest, if you didn't main Raiden you would think the option select 50/50 is just as broken as everyone else does.
 
Because not everyone else has them, and the ones that do (especially option selects ones) need to be fully punishable. You should get comboed for guessing wrong, because the one on defence gets comboed or you make your string safe, completely unfair and broken in any character. Dizzy is an amazing player, but you didn't see him use Cage did you? Be honest, if you didn't main Raiden you would think the option select 50/50 is just as broken as everyone else does.
No, something is broken when it is way better than what the average character can do. Considering there are other characters with safe 50/50s they shouldn't and probably won't target only one character. I would have no problem with them taking away everyone's safe 50/50s however. The 50/50 is something much of the cast has. Besides that TG raiden is the best at 3 things. Meter building, corner carry, and f1. But you have to keep in mind other variations. If they nerf something universal then his other variations would be receiving an undeserved Nerf.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
No, something is broken when it is way better than what the average character can do. Considering there are other characters with safe 50/50s they shouldn't and probably won't target only one character. I would have no problem with them taking away everyone's safe 50/50s however. The 50/50 is something much of the cast has. Besides that TG raiden is the best at 3 things. Meter building, corner carry, and f1. But you have to keep in mind other variations. If they nerf something universal then his other variations would be receiving an undeserved Nerf.
The average character cant restand the go into the safe 50/50s. That is the real issue. If you get hit by anything in the corner Raiden gets to 50/50 you for free, and the 50/50 is quite damaging and safe.

No one in the cast has a 50/50 like that. Venemous Dvorah could come close because she gets a 50/50 in the corner with a restand but hers do less damage and are unsafe.

Edit: Now that I think about it Scorpion might have one with the hellfire restand thingy. Would have to study further.