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General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

ZeroisLife

#YOUSUCK
Yeah once I started I always stuck with SD purely based on the damage output. But at being so early in the game, I would like to believe that C. Cage, Raiden, Q. Chi, D'Vorah, and tie between the Lao's are top 5 right now based on what type of high level play. Of course you have your SZ (Tom Brady) and Scorpions (PL) but we haven't really seen a high-end player play JC and I'm waiting on that moment because I really like to believe that JC is top 5.
 

Gilky

Noob
Played this exact same MU for a while the other day. Lucky the people I play still suck vs Johnny. Looks like you're doing a lot of things right. Solid strings, good pressure after np, good footsies. Scorp makes it hard to close in. You really have to try to keep him close and also get the hard reads when he's going to use Hellfire and delay wakeup or go for jump ins because that move just has ridiculous tracking. Sometimes if it's full screen, I can get away with a run into shadow kick. The trade-off of course is then he can start mixing in raw spears.

You shouldn't really ever waste a bar on Ex shadow kick unless it's putting them in a corner or taking a round or something. You should try using exnuptunch if you know he's going for his run cancel string. Also you need to watch his stamina. He mested up a few times and got a normal dash and you can get a fullpunish. You could also be ready to quickly d1 in case he goes for something slower like the overhead or throw and it'll probably beat it. Idk anything else. Looks like a hard mu if your opponent doesn't get hit by the overhead randomly (keep telling my sparring partners to block fucking high!!! Damn sf habits).
Thanks for the feedback, I agree it seems like a hard matchup for Johnny to win. In regards to his run cancel string, I tried to ex nut punch through it several times, but i think its airtight. In the video, he'll do it and you'll see that I block the first rep, but then get hit after the run cancel. I asked my friend about it, and he said the only way to get around it is to duck the 2 in the 214 string since its a high. I just have to grind that matchup more I guess, but he's way better than me in terms of skill anyway.
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Thanks for the feedback, I agree it seems like a hard matchup for Johnny to win. In regards to his run cancel string, I tried to ex nut punch through it several times, but i think its airtight. In the video, he'll do it and you'll see that I block the first rep, but then get hit after the run cancel. I asked my friend about it, and he said the only way to get around it is to duck the 2 in the 214 string since its a high. I just have to grind that matchup more I guess, but he's way better than me in terms of skill anyway.
Yep, airtight, my bad. I couldn't remember, because everytime I'd try, my friend would coincidentally screw up his cancel or go for something else.
:confused:
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
Yeah once I started I always stuck with SD purely based on the damage output. But at being so early in the game, I would like to believe that C. Cage, Raiden, Q. Chi, D'Vorah, and tie between the Lao's are top 5 right now based on what type of high level play. Of course you have your SZ (Tom Brady) and Scorpions (PL) but we haven't really seen a high-end player play JC and I'm waiting on that moment because I really like to believe that JC is top 5.
No way he's top 5, but could quite possibly be top 10.
 
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Tenryuga

Ball Buster
From my basic understanding of what makes a top tier in this game IMO Cage is no worse than Mid Tier. SD Cage is definitely upper mid at worst IMO.
 

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
Yes , but honestly I don't think we should be looking for 1 bar bnb's at this point , considering meter is even more precious with 0 invincibility wake ups.
i think the stamina bar is bigger problem than the meter,we lose footsies to gain cancels!
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
That sounds crazy good, the only thing I'm worried about is getting armoured out of a non-true blockstring and having to hold the combo due to no full stamina for a breaker.

I think I prefer the uniqueness of SD and all the damage it gives. You lose quite a bit of damage in A-List imo.
I prefer A List due to it resembling MK9 Johnny with his constant pressure (albeit different in MKX).

Stunt Double is still mad fun to play tho.
 
I think what Johnny needs is:

Fisticuffs:make the chip buff already active off the bat and make the fist bump do something else.

A-List: I honestly would like the ex flip kick to cause a juggle state like the charge flip kick, I think it would push him pretty far as people would be scared to jump around you when you have meter.

Yes I know not many people in the cast have this but most people in the cast seem like they have better tools right now than Johnny so why not? Anyways can't sub zero pretty much do this?

SD: give armor to his ex mimic moves I have no idea why he doesn't have this.

In general: I would really like to see f4 get a hitbox adjustment.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Just got the patch. Went in training, AI very hard, did 114, got uppercutted out of the 4. Fixed hitboxes my ass. Thanks NRS.
 

Bryck Walle

Counting the Days for the JCVD Johnny Costume!
Just got the patch. Went in training, AI very hard, did 114, got uppercutted out of the 4. Fixed hitboxes my ass. Thanks NRS.
Fixed hitboxes doesn't mean he loses the gaps between his moves, it just means when a move says it's mid, it actually hits mid.
 

Bryck Walle

Counting the Days for the JCVD Johnny Costume!
So then how can he duck my 4 and uppercut me if it's mid ? :|

What they fixed was Johnny's 11 and 12. Before the patch, even though the 2nd 1 and the 2 in the other string are considered mids, they would sometimes completely miss opponents. Even if they were blocking it would miss them "blocking raises your hit box". They fixed it so it hits mid every time now and doesn't miss. They didn't change any gaps in the strings. 114 has a gap between the second 1 and the 4. If someone has a fast enough punish they can hit you before the 4 fully comes out.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Anyone else noticing that F3 seems to get stuffed all the god damn time? How about D2 as an anti air? STUFFED. Johnny Stuffed.
 

rafaw

#YouSuck
Anyone else noticing that F3 seems to get stuffed all the god damn time? How about D2 as an anti air? STUFFED. Johnny Stuffed.
F3 stuffed in what situation? D2 as anti air get stuffed a lot of times, cant use it, if we could at least trade it was ok, but get full bombo everytime we get stuffed makes it so bad as anti air!
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
F3 stuffed in what situation? D2 as anti air get stuffed a lot of times, cant use it, if we could at least trade it was ok, but get full bombo everytime we get stuffed makes it so bad as anti air!
I cant be very specific, but I've been knocked out of F3 by all sorts of other normals. Notably D3, and D4s

Johnny has such a hard time with people jumping in. Characters like Scorpion and Ermac get to jump in for free because of the fear of teleport as well as d2 being shit. And because they get a free jump punch, they also get a free 50/50. This is a big hole in JC's game.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
What I learned from the very hard AI that constantly does this and it seems very effective is to backdash the jumpin. It doesn't matter if you do it at the last moment, it still is awesome.

Used it against people online and offline and they get so carried away to input their strings after the jumpin that they whiff a hit after the backdash leaving them open to F3. Works wonders.
 

rafaw

#YouSuck
What I learned from the very hard AI that constantly does this and it seems very effective is to backdash the jumpin. It doesn't matter if you do it at the last moment, it still is awesome.

Used it against people online and offline and they get so carried away to input their strings after the jumpin that they whiff a hit after the backdash leaving them open to F3. Works wonders.
Backdash is really good, but its not a punish for the jumper... anti air is a really important tool in a FG, MKX dont have a lot of reliable AA but JC really lacks in this area, the mimic rising shadow is just usefull 3/4 away from the oponent as an AA!
 
Backdash is really good, but its not a punish for the jumper... anti air is a really important tool in a FG, MKX dont have a lot of reliable AA but JC really lacks in this area, the mimic rising shadow is just usefull 3/4 away from the oponent as an AA!
That's why I say give the ex rising shadow armor and the ex flip kick in a-list the fully charged flip kicks juggle state. It would make people scared to jump in on him when he has meter in fear of full combo.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
That's why I say give the ex rising shadow armor and the ex flip kick in a-list the fully charged flip kicks juggle state. It would make people scared to jump in on him when he has meter in fear of full combo.
I hate wasting meter on something as simple as a jump in. Cage is kind of a meter hog. He can't just go wasting it.
 
I hate wasting meter on something as simple as a jump in. Cage is kind of a meter hog. He can't just go wasting it.

is he though? i feel shadows mitigate a lot of needs for meter such as lock down tools in neutral and easy combo extension. i wouldn't count using meter in an area he lacks as wasting it when it doesn't take away from other abilities.
 
I hate wasting meter on something as simple as a jump in. Cage is kind of a meter hog. He can't just go wasting it.
It wouldn't be a waste for a full combo and for someone to respect you while you have meter, one of his biggest weaknesses is jump ins and flip kick doing what I described would actually make people think twice and not jumping and being brain dead. 90% of players on this game cross over on knockdown, trust me using meter for it would be worth it.
 

Audit

Falls down too much
is he though? i feel shadows mitigate a lot of needs for meter such as lock down tools in neutral and easy combo extension. i wouldn't count using meter in an area he lacks as wasting it when it doesn't take away from other abilities.
Jeez I picked up JC because of his plethora of meterless options, I don't think he's a meter hog, and I would be completely cool with SD uppercut requiring meter for armor to AA.

Edit: Try F/T Lackey if you want to play a meter starved character. The struggle is real.