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Match-Up Discussion - Raiden Raiden Match-ups Thread

Helmut

Noob
If you don't know the frame data of your opponent's move, just do f12b2.
Awesome. Thanks for the tip. I will definitely give that a go when I go online tonight and try to dish out some punishment to the random teleports, specials and standard strings that people just throw out.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Was theory fighting and looking at it, it seems mos should be able to counter gm sub pretty well. Does anyone have any actual exp w this?
 
I agree with the two posts above. Online strategy is so different from offline its like you have to learn two separate styles of play. With the current online play I find it hard to punish your opponents unsafe moves. I was playing against an ermac for a few matches last night, and I could not for the life of me punish even his basic strings after blocking. Any of my counters would just lag and he end up being able to recover and block for some reason. I would also block his teleport over and over and could not get a punish in other than a low poke. From reading all the raiden threads sounds like I need to practice to counter with the f12 and just ex shock them. Is that the most reliable punish starter against people online? May just go into practice mode and set AI to spam and try and counter. But as just mentioned online is totally different so what works in practice mode is not always viable? Its also definitely possible that I suck and start to panic with my inputs after blocking because I get so excited to dish out some big damage LOL
Well big damage is what Raiden does lol, it covers up his other weaknesses to the point that talking about anything Raiden DOESN'T do well is borderline sacrilege.

But yeah as far as the online goes, it's important early on so you can see some of what characters are doing, but you're pretty fucked if you don't have an offline scene for MK.
 
Well big damage is what Raiden does lol, it covers up his other weaknesses to the point that talking about anything Raiden DOESN'T do well is borderline sacrilege.

But yeah as far as the online goes, it's important early on so you can see some of what characters are doing, but you're pretty fucked if you don't have an offline scene for MK.
Well I live in Philadelphia so I'm sure there's some type of MK scene out here. Off the top of my head I can only think of Summer Jam. Should I enter something like that to get offline experience or should I try to find another place to practice before attempting a major?
 
Also, does any
Hello, new to the MK-X series here but am gradually understanding most of the mechanics in game. Currently having a lot of issues with competent Grandmaster Sub-Zeroes and how to deal with ice clones. I feel like he can just bully me any way he likes if he cancels out of it or gets it out at any point of the match.

I could spend bar for electric fly or any other armored moves, but I was wondering if there was any other way to deal with this as Thunder God?
When I fight GM Sub I like to keep him at a full screen distance and play as defensive as possible. Then I keep firing Raiden's projectile to frustrate them. If Sub tried to put a ice clone up the projectile will break it. If he tries to hit you with ice balls just block and stand your ground since it doesn't do chip damage. At this point most sub players either try to jump over your projectiles which you can punish with Rising Thunder or slide in. If they slide in just crouch low and either throw them or punish then with f1b2xx ex shocker and throw them at the end of that or hit them with electric fly. Both options will create space between you and Sub-Zero and you can just repeat the strategy all over again. This works really well for me but I'm curious to see what other people do.
 

mrtom

Noob
Was theory fighting and looking at it, it seems mos should be able to counter gm sub pretty well. Does anyone have any actual exp w this?
I use MoS a lot vs sub and it's working out pretty well. It can be very hard for sub to get in if you're aggressive with the orbs. If sub tries slide punishing your second othe he gets caught or it trades and still gets caught allowing you to followup. Even if he freeze punishes you for throwing a second he can't follow up, you're thawed before he can get in. If you use a beam on his wakeup he can ex slide and you get hit but he gets stuck and you can follow up for more damage than his slide did.

I use a backwards orb for my first one and forward orb for the second. Forward orbs look similar to his projectile so they are more likely to punish. If he doesnt get caught in the beam you have time to throw a projectile and another orb before the beam runs out.

It's still not an easy match, at least for me, and even though TG is my strongest style, I have a much easier time with MoS.
 

FluffyKittenPops

#ONTHERISE
@Raidenwins there is a youtube video on zyphox's (takeda main) channel, and it explains the holes in his combos.

B21 (double overhead) can be armored
B3 (slow low kick) can be armored.

Most of his strings have holes and can be armored.
 
Well I live in Philadelphia so I'm sure there's some type of MK scene out here. Off the top of my head I can only think of Summer Jam. Should I enter something like that to get offline experience or should I try to find another place to practice before attempting a major?
Summer Jam, East Coast Throwdown, NEC, Winter Brawl, all big events near you that you should be attending.

You don't "attempt" a major you show up and play mad games all weekend and have fun. Look for weekly events in Philly if you like, but don't let that stop you from going to Summer Jam.
 

SirRaven

Teleport tickle fail
I figured I would post this here. I was trying to figure out the best way to punish GM Sub with that Ice Clone and came up with this


@Chaosphere is there more damage than this?
What happens if you follow up with ex db3? Does it not pop them up enough to continue with anything? I have minimal experience on TG variation (because I'm hard headed and want to prove displacer's place in society). It just seems like wasted juggle ending after one spark cancel link without another pop up juggle.
 

Alright RyRy

Florida Kombat
What happens if you follow up with ex db3? Does it not pop them up enough to continue with anything? I have minimal experience on TG variation (because I'm hard headed and want to prove displacer's place in society). It just seems like wasted juggle ending after one spark cancel link without another pop up juggle.
You can, but unless you are going for the kill it is not worth it in my opinion.

The full combo would be. EX ShockerxNJPxB14xLRCx214xEX DB3x B14 Shocker / Superman depending on if you put them in the corner or not.
 

Jb879212

40 Percent Punish
Quan Chi is the MU I'm most concerned about. Any thoughts there?
I agree, it would be nice to hear from the community what the strategy is for this match up. I want to say TG for summoner and displacer for puggles but I am no expert on the match up at all.
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
If you expect GM SZ (Grandmaster Sub Zero) to throw out the clone, a regular superman will actually beat it. But the safer thing is to EX Lightning Grab
 
I agree, it would be nice to hear from the community what the strategy is for this match up. I want to say TG for summoner and displacer for puggles but I am no expert on the match up at all.
I suppose two of the big QC questions are:
1) How do you get out of the Summoner/Puggles blender? and
2) Best ways to deal with Sorcerer when they are in the armor portal?
 
I use MoS a lot vs sub and it's working out pretty well. It can be very hard for sub to get in if you're aggressive with the orbs. If sub tries slide punishing your second othe he gets caught or it trades and still gets caught allowing you to followup. Even if he freeze punishes you for throwing a second he can't follow up, you're thawed before he can get in. If you use a beam on his wakeup he can ex slide and you get hit but he gets stuck and you can follow up for more damage than his slide did.

I use a backwards orb for my first one and forward orb for the second. Forward orbs look similar to his projectile so they are more likely to punish. If he doesnt get caught in the beam you have time to throw a projectile and another orb before the beam runs out.

It's still not an easy match, at least for me, and even though TG is my strongest style, I have a much easier time with MoS.
I Want to start using master of storms. It really is his most fun looking variation.

And its under used so people will likley just be confused on how to approach
 
Any advice on the match up vs inferno scorpion. I find it impossibly frustrating to fight vs him zoning with his demons. And if one catches you, you lose half your Hp bar
 

Helmut

Noob
Any advice on the match up vs inferno scorpion. I find it impossibly frustrating to fight vs him zoning with his demons. And if one catches you, you lose half your Hp bar
For online the best strategy I have found is to try and close the distance. I always run up on him to avoid the overhead and low demon which they will constantly throw at you when there is a large space gap. Dont allow him to get a large amount of space on you and whatever you do dont try and get in a zoning battle with your lightning. Dont even use your projectile on characters that can teleport on you is what I have found. A projectile once in a while is ok to bait a teleport, but dont try to do it more than once. If you can put pressure on them constantly up close they will go for the teleport or slide so be ready for that and then punish. If you get them in the corner and start dealing damage they will most likely ex teleport on wakeup to get out so after a big corner combo I start low poking with d3 and prepare to block the tele in case they teleport. If I get a few hits with that and they dont teleport go back to the b2 overhead and keep working on corner damage. I play scorpion myself sometimes, and inferno scorpions biggest weakness is when he gets pressured and looses the option of using the demons. All of this is easier said than done against a good inferno scorpion player though LOL.
 

Helmut

Noob
I have been facing a lot of Kung Jins lately, and having a lot of trouble. The range and mixup options he has make it pretty hard to get in on him and initiate an attack. Once you pin them in the corner its hard to pressure as well because they wakeup attack with the armored staff spin and deal high damage combos every time. Does anyone have a good strategy on how to deal with these guys when using Raiden?
 

mrtom

Noob
I have been facing a lot of Kung Jins lately, and having a lot of trouble. The range and mixup options he has make it pretty hard to get in on him and initiate an attack. Once you pin them in the corner its hard to pressure as well because they wakeup attack with the armored staff spin and deal high damage combos every time. Does anyone have a good strategy on how to deal with these guys when using Raiden?
Immediate b3,2 hold will beat wakeup armored staff after shocker or superman.
 

nugava

Noob
Use EX df2 everytime you see Kung Jin neutral jump. After a blocked EX triple spin, the easiest way to punish is EX df2.
 

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
Immediate b3,2 hold will beat wakeup armored staff after shocker or superman.
Adding to this, after superman immediate b32hold will beat almost every wakeup. B32hold after shocker has less hit advantage but still beats quite a bit off wakeups
 

Helmut

Noob
Adding to this, after superman immediate b32hold will beat almost every wakeup. B32hold after shocker has less hit advantage but still beats quite a bit off wakeups
Cool thats exactly what I was looking for. I think people are catching on to raidens overhead starter in the corner so the b32 hold seems to have some strong advantages if it stuffs a lot of ex armor wakeup attacks as well. If they dont ex wakeup it still adds good presure and if they block high can still get good damage in the corner with it when it connects.

Now if I can just figure out how to stop erron blacks high low mixups and slide. That overhead low string gives him so many options and I tend to block low out of habit for some reason. Got destroyed numerous times by a guy who knew outlaw erron black really well last night. Lost 14 games in a row I believe it was. Anytime I got close to him it was high low sand to the face then huge damage combo LOL. The corner game he had was devastating. He had some sort of standing reset combo he kept doing that I couldnt get out of. I did better playing keep away and trying to zone him and build meter. After I had some meter that was the only way I was able to initiate good damage. It was a good learning experience on the Raiden/Erron Black MU for sure.
 

Jb879212

40 Percent Punish
VS Teleport chars (Scorpion, Ermac, Mileena, Quan), I'm wondering if MOS is better suited instead of the usual TG?
I always thought so. Raiden always gave me the feeling that his design was supposed to be TG= offensive presence; Displacer>zoners; MoS>teleport/divekick