Strategy - Grandmaster New Clone Cancel Mindgame

Ok.. now that the clone disappears on block, lets look at a scenario here.

Take Kung Lao as an example-- he already punishes every thing we have. However, he can now also go in the offensive after any clone cancel without using any meter or trying a risky dive kick punish over the top of the clone.

He can jump in 2 and go into 11, B12, etc.. He can use that to keep you blocking after the jump in and then switch it up by using B2/Low Hat/Teleport mix ups. You can always back dash the B2 but when you do that he goes right back to 11, B12, etc and hits you. Keep in mind that he can still low hat/teleport after any of his fast strings such as 11 and B12.

Your options are ..

• you can EX DB1 which (most of the time) will lead to a 31% combo thanks to the shatter but this can prove to be an inconsistent juggle based on where he is in the jump when the shattering clone hits him.
• You can also just back dash and KL will have to dive kick (which will hit your back dash) or EX Teleport to avoid being frozen.
• You can D4 as he jumps and lower your hitbox. This prevents KL from making contact with you and gets him frozen by the clone. KL can whiff his dive kick over your low profile attack though.

MANY characters present this mind game. Looks like we need to start using meter/stamina to punish people from jumping over clones.Looks like people got the meterless option they so desired.

We need to work on a RELIABLE combo off of EX DB1 which the clone shatter when the opponent jumps it from any cancel as the spacing changes things based on what move/string we cancelled into the clone off of..


I am seriously thinking about missing combo breaker because these are some SIGNIFICANT changes and 7 days is a very short time to learn all the inns and outs.

You know you can use D4, most characters can not hit you from jump in because you lower your hitbox and the clone will freeze them if the clone is present

Salad Petresky said:

You know you can use D4, most characters can not hit you from jump in because you lower your hitbox and the clone will freeze them if the clone is present

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I forgot to add low profile as an option. Sorry about that.

At work so I'm unfortunately not able to actually test anything, but I was theorizing anti air options outside of d2 and wondered if Sub's 6 frame j3 after a clone cancel would provide a scenario where it either anti airs them even before the peak of their jump (leaving them to fall in the clone or get HKD'd)

Since the new meta in such a scenario is almost always banking on the fact that they may try to jump, mixing other anti airing options may be something to look at.

Obviously a teleport or one of Kenshi's specials also for example will hit on block or potentially punish, but what if Sub simply crouches or crouch blocks a Jump In attack? Would that lower his hitbox enough to leave the opponent falling into the clone?
Sidenote: The cooldown on clone's gonna take a little getting use to too, that'll be an adjustment for sure compared to the combos I assume we all were memorizing

@Tom Brady what about forward dash if they jump instead of backdash?

Rickyraws said:

At work so I'm unfortunately not able to actually test anything, but I was theorizing anti air options outside of d2 and wondered if Sub's 6 frame j3 after a clone cancel would provide a scenario where it either anti airs them even before the peak of their jump (leaving them to fall in the clone or get HKD'd)

Since the new meta in such a scenario is almost always banking on the fact that they may try to jump, mixing other anti airing options may be something to look at.

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No, because the opponent can always opt to jump kick over jump punch. Their jump kick will beat yours due to your recovery after clone cancel and will also get over the clone and make contact with you if you block. You would have to low profile/armor/back dash/ uppercut the jump kick. Also, some characters have jump kicks that you simply will not uppercut from that range.

I can see shatter being used more and more here.

I'm assuming that you're talking about situations where you clone off of f4 and they simply jump during your recovery?

Braindead said:

@Tom Brady what about forward dash if they jump instead of backdash?

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I used forward dash in my current meta pre patch as opponents couldnt jump in so they either waked back, jump back as i ran in, or they would just crouch block. If they walked back or attacked as they saw me begin to run, I would ex slide into clone. If they jumped back as I ran in I would B2. If they stayed blocking I would throw them into the clone. With the opponents new options via patch this is now a HUGE mind game where we are guessing on one billion scenarios that will all get us killed if we are wrong.

I honestly believe this patch will most likely move SZ to the bottom of or even out of the top 10.

Tom Brady said:

No, because the opponent can always opt to jump kick over jump punch. Their jump kick will beat yours due to your recovery after clone cancel and will also get over the clone and make contact with you if you block. You would have to low profile/armor/back dash/ uppercut the jump kick. Also, some characters have jump kicks that you simply will not uppercut from that range.

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Shit, yeah I see what you mean. Damn, in hindsight having MB clone retain the persistence wouldn't have been so bad when you consider the meter use that's all but necessary at this point.

Our main options are low profile or back off.

I think this is very good in the case of characters who only get the jip/jik mixup because it's all the more incentive for them to kill themselves but a problem in the hands of someone like KL.

So let me get this straight NRS decided that instead of fixing the broken hitbox of the klone on block, they just decided to remove the klone all together???
I play on PC so I haven't had a chance to enjoy the new "fixes" yet.
My question is if the klone goes away on block will the klone cooldown be reset when that happens?

Don't have the patch yet. What about slide for dealing with jump ins post clone and building some meter in the process?

I don't know if it was a glitch or what but i was playing online earlier and the opponent did a jump in punch after clone and i got hit but he still got frozen?

Marvaz said:

I don't know if it was a glitch or what but i was playing online earlier and the opponent did a jump in punch after clone and i got hit but he still got frozen?

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Probably happened at the same time... if not another glitch.

I swear the clone disappearing on block isn't consistent at all. Sometimes I block a jip and it disappears, other times I see their jip and they get frozen. Maybe their jip is active, but hasn't made contact before they touch the clone?

The other issue with clone being the way it is now, is that if gives the opponent even more ways to get out of the corner. I can only hope the Clone glitches will get fixed as the new patches come out, or that they will make clone back to the way it used to be (LOL I know they wont, cause if sub keeps his dirt its extremely unfair.) That being said I wanna know what you guys are doing to lock down people in the corner if you dont score a hit buy time the clone goes away since you can no longer just loop it.

I've been watching the TotFC footage from yesterday: did nobody know they could do this? Up to your match against SidTheHaze, I haven't seen anyone jump it in the corner yet.

TH3DISTURBED1 said:

I've been watching the TotFC footage from yesterday: did nobody know they could do this? Up to your match against SidTheHaze, I haven't seen anyone jump it in the corner yet.

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Can you post a link?

Subzeeros said:

The other issue with clone being the way it is now, is that if gives the opponent even more ways to get out of the corner. I can only hope the Clone glitches will get fixed as the new patches come out, or that they will make clone back to the way it used to be (LOL I know they wont, cause if sub keeps his dirt its extremely unfair.) That being said I wanna know what you guys are doing to lock down people in the corner if you dont score a hit buy time the clone goes away since you can no longer just loop it.

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I'm basically playing only a little bit differently. I can't get close enough to block an attack, so I gotta keep distance and try to play safe as much as possible. Many opponents like to neutral jump when cornered by Sub-Zero. I either wait them for land to try a 50/50 or I smash Clone, this way I'll have time to set up another clone in most situations.

If Clone vanishes by its own, I just keep in mind that it's when my opponent will mostly likely play offensive and try to gtfo off corner. I like to neutral kick predicting their jump. It gives hard knock down and has a long range.

TH3DISTURBED1 said:

http://www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports/v/5101444

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What time precisely, please?

By the way

The exactly time when a new clone is gonna be available is when the ice fume from the previously one is gone. Don't know if anyone noticed that.

I think we can all agree that having a cooldown on the klone isn't something we can't overcome, the problem I have is with the clone disappearing on block.
Why was this implemented when in the MK 9 we did have a cooldown yet the the klone didn't vanish on block... what purpose does this serve other than to nerf SZ?
ALSO air klones... yeah remember those from MK9... the good times when you would do jump in klone to bait people.
Why aren't these in the game?
Right now I'm still waiting on this damn patch to show up on PC.

RVB said:

I think we can all agree that having a cooldown on the klone isn't something we can't overcome, the problem I have is with the clone disappearing on block.
Why was this implemented when in the MK 9 we did have a cooldown yet the the klone didn't vanish on block... what purpose does this serve other than to nerf SZ?
ALSO air klones... yeah remember those from MK9... the good times when you would do jump in klone to bait people.
Why aren't these in the game?
Right now I'm still waiting on this damn patch to show up on PC.

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The only purpose it serves is to make the match up against him easier on the opponent. The only thing the patch did was make it so people didn't have to study the match-up as hard as they had to. I still find it hilarious how people use complaints like "But you gotta use meter to get out of his pressure!" Isn't that the point of specializing in a variation? If you make his dirt free to get out of your pretty much handing them the game, then yet again that's just what they want.

I've noticed many people (me including) easly agree on 2 seconds cool down and strongly disagree on punishing SZ with clone vanish for blocking. I've read colt's explanation in patch topic; it is not convincing at all. Hell it's not even an explanation, it's a suggestion how to overcome the nerf in certain scenario. I have yet to hear some serious reasoning behind that, I would be grateful to know, why klone vanish on block is necessary in MKX for a character that isn't even considered top 5.

On the bright side though: having to shatter clone before it's gone on its own will help building meter and will lead to lots of brutalities.