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A few gameplay tweaks .. yes or no?

K

Kyoko-Manjii

Noob
Hey all

After playing the game for about two weeks I wanted to know other peoples thoughts on this.

As a tournament tekken player I really like solid gameplay and logics fundamental wise.
Now I know MK is a totally diffferent game so PLEASE TAKE NOTICE OF THIS before any bashing bla bla bla.
thnx


Okay so a few things that bother me ( maybe im just not familiair enough with my * complaints? * but i will try to back them up.

thnx in advance


so .. here we go

1. the throw system

Okay this one is just THE most unlogical mechanic in the game for me.
So we have 2 kinds of throws .. cool .. however .. they are both the same animation , but do have 2 different breaks?
furthermore i cant duck them unless i release block .. so you are always open for mids .. and you cannot break a throw while holding block .. this PLUS the fact that throws have to be broken REALLY fast and even on break .. they do 2% dmg .. well ..

now for backing this up .. Ive watched some tournaments and seeing a throwbreak is really rare .. meaning that even the topplayers really struggle with this

the solution for this imo ?

- breaking a throw while holding block should be possible
- 1 button break
- throw break window is fine for me
- get rid off the 2% dmg while breaking a throw


2. Guard damage

Now i know this is oldschool and really MK's thing .. but NRS said they wanted to appeal more to the tournament play.
so this is kind of logical to me .. specials can do guard dmg, thats a given.
but normals as well? This dramaticly decreases the comeback factor but the worst thing is .. having knowledge about high low overheads strings or block punishers is almost useless on low life, getting a knockdown is a guaranteed loss cuz you cannot block anything cuz you will get chipped to death.

solution imo

- only specials can do guard dmg
- this will lead to deeper gameplay since having character knowledge means so much more and will definetly define the yolo's from the solids.
- fundamentals like #1 throwbreaking and character knowledge will actually have meaning cuz one player cannot just go in and chip you to death with anything , they actually need to consider mixups.

3. Overhead strings and low strings into combo.

Now I know MK is fast paced game.
how ever , given the fact that overheads and lows are VERY fast in this game and can lead to BIG damage ( for ex. raiden ) i think this is a bit much. I would like to see * honest * overheads like kitana's b2. Just one simple overhead move that gives knockdown. it will stop your opponent from crouch guarding all the time, and it also stops the insane 50/50 mixups like a cassie / erron black / raiden etc. Ive seen tournament where players ONLY trust on this and do anything else .. here is absolutely no fundamental play in terms of skill .. its just repeating a 50/50 all over again and this ( for me ) get old really quick .. cuz u are forced to do armor cuz you cannot react on these overheads. ( maybe there are people that can but i see the topplayers like cd jr / tom brady not react as well .. same applies for throw teching ) subzero's b2 is one of the slower overheads and 95% of the players didnt block it against tom brady's corner iceclone pressure ..

solution imo

- overheads should be single moves not leading into combo. leading into knockdown or standing plus frames on hit is fine

4. Anti airs

Ok well .. this is where I think it gets dangerous .. but i think all the characters should have a good anti air without the cost of one meter. example is goro's uppercut .. try setting sub / scorp to jump kick in practice and anti air with goro ON reaction .. you will see that you have to react insanely quick .. and this applies for more characters .. I'd like to see a universal anti air move for all chars that is really unsafe on block .. but does have invincible anti air frames ala dragonpunch ( yea yea i know please dont start )
this will stop all the jumping and gives player who have better fundamentals an advantage cuz they actually are more skilled.

and for the haters NO .. i do not like streetfighter at all .. im not trying to make MK into streetfighter .. im just sharing my opinions.


solution imo

give every char a solid anti air to maintain ground control
this will lead into a footsie paced game

5. projectile trading

this .. well i dnno .. not much to say , I'd like to see it but i dont mind as much as well .. I guess this is debatable.

6. Armor move should not absorb life but be fully invincible.
This may sound to strong but think about it .. if you are on 1% life .. and have 3 bars .. you are pretty much dead .. when an armor move doesnt absorb life it will create more depth even in close life situations.

These should be very punishable on block offcc.

Well thats it guys

Imo these things together will make this the perfect game ( to me ) because having fundamentals and good reactions actually means something. Putting in time in the lab will be rewarding and well .. I think this will make the game even better.
This game is superfun to play and i really enjoy it. I hope everyone enjoyed this story , and well .. share your thoughts?

Ow and PS

if you have some super awesome tech you want to share with me and everyone else how all my troubles i pointed out are nullified .. let me know
!!! ( maybe im just not aware of the basics .. could be but i havent found much to counter these .. )

thanks for reading and dont hate .. just share your thoughts
 
Gesture Required Ahead

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
These are not bad ideas but it takes away from what makes MK different to other games. Throw break is already 1 button btw. 1 or 3 breaks back throws and 2 or 4 breaks forward throws.

I however agree on the 50/50 thing. Too Injustice-y to just get damage off of coin flipping. But too late to change it now. Just deal with it.
 
K

Kyoko-Manjii

Noob
Fraud Blank said:
These are not bad ideas but it takes away from what makes MK different to other games. Throw break is already 1 button btw. 1 or 3 breaks back throws and 2 or 4 breaks forward throws.

I however agree on the 50/50 thing. Too Injustice-y to just get damage off of coin flipping. But too late to change it now. Just deal with it.
Click to expand...

No i ment just 1 button for general throws .. now its a unseeable 50/50 cuz there is no way to see what throw they are doing .. one can only guess.

and yes you are right .. I have to deal with it .. I'd really like to see other peoples thoughts on my post tho :)
 
Ares_Supreme

Ares_Supreme

Gaymer
My biggest issue was the "no chip damage on normals" thing. For some characters, this is their entire playstyle and makes them unique.


snort said:
This game needs a push block.
Click to expand...
For me this falls under the same category. Some characters rely heavily on that chip damage and getting up close.
 
K

Kyoko-Manjii

Noob
even if it looks like SF .. I think it will benefit the game .. I dont like SF at all ... but MKX seems a bit random at times .. and imo these changes would really turn up the skill level in the game itself ..

like i said .. it's my point of view
 
Ares_Supreme

Ares_Supreme

Gaymer
I do however agree that this game went a little crazy with guessing. Some characters can full combo off of an overhead/low while others can't. Sucks to lose because of guess, being forced to zone most characters from fear of being put into such a tight situation.
 
K

Kyoko-Manjii

Noob
yeah thats why i would like to see one hit overheads that dont lead into combo's and just a solid throwbreak system that can be applied with reaction .. not with guesses

this way your character knowledge and skill / reaction make sense
 
KIllaByte

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
uh, yeah, throws aren't supposed to be bad.
And normals are supposed to do chip, Mortal Kombat tournaments have been just fine outside of controller sync issues for MKX.
And projectiles aren't supposed to clash, and armor is supposed to be cancelled off of if the opponent hits your armor, so they have a chance and don't get bodied by dumb invincibility. Fighting games are about impacts.
 
K

Kyoko-Manjii

Noob
a throw is not bad if it has one break .. then you can apply frame traps or zone out after certain strings to make them break and whiffpunish them .. just saying .. having a throw u need to guess instead of react while u cannot hold block is a bit much .. even in tournaments you rarely see throws get broken.

MKX is the only fighting game i know that has such a ridiculously hard system of throw teching .. and im from a tekken background .. i know what im talking about. ttt2 throw break is easy compared to mkx

PS i was talking about amor moves alone .. if u would have read it u;d see I said that they should be really unsafe on block .. >>>> bait punish done

no one gets bodied
 
LRK128

LRK128

TEST - YOU'RE WHITE!
Kyoko-Manjii said:
Hey all

After playing the game for about two weeks I wanted to know other peoples thoughts on this.

As a tournament tekken player I really like solid gameplay and logics fundamental wise.
Now I know MK is a totally diffferent game so PLEASE TAKE NOTICE OF THIS before any bashing bla bla bla.
thnx


Okay so a few things that bother me ( maybe im just not familiair enough with my * complaints? * but i will try to back them up.

thnx in advance


so .. here we go

1. the throw system

Okay this one is just THE most unlogical mechanic in the game for me.
So we have 2 kinds of throws .. cool .. however .. they are both the same animation , but do have 2 different breaks?
furthermore i cant duck them unless i release block .. so you are always open for mids .. and you cannot break a throw while holding block .. this PLUS the fact that throws have to be broken REALLY fast and even on break .. they do 2% dmg .. well ..

now for backing this up .. Ive watched some tournaments and seeing a throwbreak is really rare .. meaning that even the topplayers really struggle with this

the solution for this imo ?

- breaking a throw while holding block should be possible
- 1 button break
- throw break window is fine for me
- get rid off the 2% dmg while breaking a throw

I think throws are justified as they do small damage and can be broken, while there's always the chance you could get hit doing one. As far as top players struggling to break them, those are the top players there are, but is that what the top potiential is? #LEVELUP

2. Guard damage

Now i know this is oldschool and really MK's thing .. but NRS said they wanted to appeal more to the tournament play.
so this is kind of logical to me .. specials can do guard dmg, thats a given.
but normals as well? This dramaticly decreases the comeback factor but the worst thing is .. having knowledge about high low overheads strings or block punishers is almost useless on low life, getting a knockdown is a guaranteed loss cuz you cannot block anything cuz you will get chipped to death.

solution imo

- only specials can do guard dmg
- this will lead to deeper gameplay since having character knowledge means so much more and will definetly define the yolo's from the solids.
- fundamentals like #1 throwbreaking and character knowledge will actually have meaning cuz one player cannot just go in and chip you to death with anything , they actually need to consider mixups.

Honestly I don't think there's a right or wrong option here, it would not mess up the game either way. I do however think it is more realistic for everything to do a small amount of damage when blocked (if i punch the side of your arm instead of your face, it still hurts) but game-wise either way.
3. Overhead strings and low strings into combo.

Now I know MK is fast paced game.
how ever , given the fact that overheads and lows are VERY fast in this game and can lead to BIG damage ( for ex. raiden ) i think this is a bit much. I would like to see * honest * overheads like kitana's b2. Just one simple overhead move that gives knockdown. it will stop your opponent from crouch guarding all the time, and it also stops the insane 50/50 mixups like a cassie / erron black / raiden etc. Ive seen tournament where players ONLY trust on this and do anything else .. here is absolutely no fundamental play in terms of skill .. its just repeating a 50/50 all over again and this ( for me ) get old really quick .. cuz u are forced to do armor cuz you cannot react on these overheads. ( maybe there are people that can but i see the topplayers like cd jr / tom brady not react as well .. same applies for throw teching ) subzero's b2 is one of the slower overheads and 95% of the players didnt block it against tom brady's corner iceclone pressure ..

solution imo

- overheads should be single moves not leading into combo. leading into knockdown or standing plus frames on hit is fine
I think overheads and lows into combos are ok. Most of them are reactABLE (not largely reacted) so those ones are fine. The only one I think you can make an argument against are unreactable 50/50s that START combos from an average attack range at an average attack speed as these don't have anything to even them with other attacks, they stand out as 'overpowered' or as I would put it better. I don't have a problem with vortexes that are unreactable as the player has the choice to get guaranteed damage or a 50/50 for a possible more. I just don't see a problem with that also some may.
4. Anti airs

Ok well .. this is where I think it gets dangerous .. but i think all the characters should have a good anti air without the cost of one meter. example is goro's uppercut .. try setting sub / scorp to jump kick in practice and anti air with goro ON reaction .. you will see that you have to react insanely quick .. and this applies for more characters .. I'd like to see a universal anti air move for all chars that is really unsafe on block .. but does have invincible anti air frames ala dragonpunch ( yea yea i know please dont start )
this will stop all the jumping and gives player who have better fundamentals an advantage cuz they actually are more skilled.

and for the haters NO .. i do not like streetfighter at all .. im not trying to make MK into streetfighter .. im just sharing my opinions.

solution imo

give every char a solid anti air to maintain ground control
this will lead into a footsie paced game

Instead of anti-airing, there's the perfectly viable option of blocking. Anti airs should be seen as extra, unneeded icing on the cake, a gift from the heavens, or more correctly a gift to the heavens.

5. projectile trading

this .. well i dnno .. not much to say , I'd like to see it but i dont mind as much as well .. I guess this is debatable.

6. Armor move should not absorb life but be fully invincible.
This may sound to strong but think about it .. if you are on 1% life .. and have 3 bars .. you are pretty much dead .. when an armor move doesnt absorb life it will create more depth even in close life situations.

These should be very punishable on block offcc.

Again i think this is either way, just how the creators choose. I will say armor is VERY good as it is, so increasing it would be seen by my beloved 80% of the community as overpowered.
Well thats it guys

Imo these things together will make this the perfect game ( to me ) because having fundamentals and good reactions actually means something. Putting in time in the lab will be rewarding and well .. I think this will make the game even better.
This game is superfun to play and i really enjoy it. I hope everyone enjoyed this story , and well .. share your thoughts?

Ow and PS

if you have some super awesome tech you want to share with me and everyone else how all my troubles i pointed out are nullified .. let me know
!!! ( maybe im just not aware of the basics .. could be but i havent found much to counter these .. )

thanks for reading and dont hate .. just share your thoughts
Click to expand...
edit: comments in bold italics inside quote
not trying to offend
 
KIllaByte

KIllaByte

PSN: playakid700. Local name: BFGC MonkeyBizness
Kyoko-Manjii said:
a throw is not bad if it has one break .. then you can apply frame traps or zone out after certain strings to make them break and whiffpunish them .. just saying .. having a throw u need to guess instead of react while u cannot hold block is a bit much .. even in tournaments you rarely see throws get broken.

MKX is the only fighting game i know that has such a ridiculously hard system of throw teching .. and im from a tekken background .. i know what im talking about. ttt2 throw break is easy compared to mkx
Click to expand...
Well yeah, MKX throw defense is not about breaking throws, it's about ducking under them or jumping over them. The break guess option being there is nice.
 
Jb879212

Jb879212

40 Percent Punish
I say no. The throws are fine you just have to guess right, which isn't too hard considering you should always break in anticipation of the more favorable position. The high low mixups are just a part of the game, a part of its dna and what makes it different. Besides the overheads of which you speak are either really slow on start up or fairly punishable. I agree with the anti air but for most characters a preemptive down two or jump back punch will do. Guard damage I definitely agree with. No reason for a blocked normal to kill you. The armor however, needs to stay the way it is. Some characters armored moves allow too much damage off of the confirm for it to be completely invincible. Not only that but that would drastically affect the tier list and call for an immediate need to balance the game.
 
K

Kyoko-Manjii

Noob
thanks for the replies guys

hmm is that how MK is supposed to be played? ducking throws rather then to break them .. seems kinda hard condsidering you must release block .. it seems really dangerous.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
I come from competitive Tekken and i've understood and accepted what MK is , your view is to make it a really generalized game , the cool and good thing about MK is that characters play differently from each other , if you make throws breakable while blocking and with 1 button you basically take out any decent mixups characters like Kitana have , taking out chip damage indirectly nerfs frametrap characters like Johnny Cage ( what would be the point of fistcuff JC? ) . Being chipped to death is what it is otherwise you'd have to end a match with a special / throw / OH low mixup some characters instead thrive on having long range normal mid and now they gotta get a mixup to end the round.

Anti airs is a delicate subject , personally i think upclose monsters should have good anti airs not everyone in the cast , being unable to deal with jump attacks can be a weakness in a overall good character.

Everyone having an overhead single hitting knockdown would make oh low mixup characters non existant and will basically give the edge to footsies / zoning characters and invincible *armor* deters the reward from getting a knockdown or a frametrap , i'd be ok with more air invincibility on things like air throws.

Point is that a "tournament" game doesn't have to be about every character gets the same odds at winning through being similar to each other , this game rewards many kinds of playstyle and that's the fun part of it and what it will make it thrive in tournaments.
 
K

Kyoko-Manjii

Noob
so would you guys consider subs b2 slow or fast?

cuz ive seen faster ones and in the tournaments i saw i didnt really see any reaction on blocking the b2 or b33 ... and thats offlline.
gotta have godlike reactions then i guess .. and the only reference ive got are the topplayers .. and they dont react to it as well
soo .. yea .. quite the pickle lol
 
SnoopyClownGang

SnoopyClownGang

Who's Next?
the changes you mentioned are very defensively focused.
the game is meant to be very offensively focused. you need these elements in order to get damage and maintain a fast paced match when you consider that this game has combo breakers, push block, and no crossups.
 
ATP2014

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
NRS has the worst throw system in modern fighting games.

Why are throws a random 50/50 guess?

Why do you take damage if you make the read that they are going to throw AND you guess correctly on the direction?

Why are characters not completely invincible during the throw animation AND the throw tech animation?

Absolutely terrible design imo.
 
FlappyDaniel

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
um... we found this week 1, but you only need to press 1 to tech any throw, unless they changed that with a patch?
 
BloodyNights

BloodyNights

"My kunai will find it's mark."
Kyoko-Manjii said:
Hey all

After playing the game for about two weeks I wanted to know other peoples thoughts on this.
Click to expand...
1. Throws. There is actually misinformation about the throw system. I went to Semi Evil Ryu's for some casuals among friends. The person who I played said you can't tech throws while blocking, and that they were to good. I said yes you can. He asked Semi and he said you couldn't. Truth is we were both right. You can hold block until the throw animation. But then you have to let go of block and hit the tech. While it may be a 50/50 guess on which way the throw is going. Chances are if you are close to the corner, they will want to keep you there. Making it a bit easier to figure out which button to press.

2. Guard damage is fine it's an MK thing.

3. I just think they need to be slowed down, or not start as an overhead/low. But as someone else said it's the game at this point.

4. Don't sell anti-airs short. It may take time to figure them all out. But slowly but surely people will stop using D2 as there exclusive AA button, after finding stuff that leads into 30% or greater. I know I've started experimenting and found better options already.

5. Projectiles have never traded ever, it's an MK thing.

6. Actually I don't think they should be invincible. I do think they should tone done, or upgrade other characters moves. Kung Jin getting 40% while other characters get like 12% or something just seems unbalanced.

Thats all from me lol
 
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