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Question - Ninjitsu Ninjutsu Scorpion

I've played a ton of Ninj. scorp, and I really can't see its benefit over the other two variations (lol.) It seems to has zone issues and no real opener. You're sort of stuck just trying to bait a b2 combo at mid range, which gets you blown up on block.

Hate to say it but they'll have to make f2 an overhead to make it work v. the stronger cast imo.

edit: Herp SGX beat me to it
 

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Ninjitsu does have some obvious weaknesses when compared against the other two but it does have two big strenghts as well.

1. You've got to understand his range in this variation, you get to play footsies at a range your opponent (character dependatn of course) simply cannot. F2 can be really annoying to deal with, if spaced right it's not punishable and you can still get 25-30% off it depending on the situation.

2. F2 and B4 are amazing for stuffing armoured wake ups, this is something that needs practice but it's a very dangerous tool in Scorps arsenal. Being able to launch people on wake up after they've spent a bar is pretty huge, again this is specific so requires looking into every character.

You also gain 212, F24 and B121 has great knockback which is ideal as Ninjitsu Scorpion has ridiculous range the added pushback to B32F2 is also really good. I also think it's very good agasint Grandmaster Sub Zero, F2 and B4 can either check or punish a lot of his clone strings as shown in this video.

 

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
I really wanted to roll Ninjutsu on launch, but as soon as I realized F2 wasn't an overhead, I deflated a bit. It quite simply does not have the sheer potential of his other 2 variations.

For now, I've settled on Inferno. I'm not good enough to play Hellfire at the level that a Slips or an MIT can.
 
Ninjitsu does have some obvious weaknesses when compared against the other two but it does have two big strenghts as well.

1. You've got to understand his range in this variation, you get to play footsies at a range your opponent (character dependatn of course) simply cannot. F2 can be really annoying to deal with, if spaced right it's not punishable and you can still get 25-30% off it depending on the situation.

2. F2 and B4 are amazing for stuffing armoured wake ups, this is something that needs practice but it's a very dangerous tool in Scorps arsenal. Being able to launch people on wake up after they've spent a bar is pretty huge, again this is specific so requires looking into every character.

You also gain 212, F24 and B121 has great knockback which is ideal as Ninjitsu Scorpion has ridiculous range the added pushback to B32F2 is also really good. I also think it's very good agasint Grandmaster Sub Zero, F2 and B4 can either check or punish a lot of his clone strings as shown in this video.

As much as I like Ninjutsu. I believe that he is by far scorpion's worst variation. I actually just recently learned that his other variations has the same strings, and for the most part, they're just as safe. Ninjustu really relies on F2 and B2. B2 is super punishable (because he moves forward so much) unless you do it from very far away. F2 is a lot less punishable, almost safe, but I feel as time goes on, players will master run-punishes out of block and ninjutsu players will be eating a full combo punishable for a long range mid; that could also hurt his other moves like a well spaced b4 or his b3 string, pretty much anything that's really negative with a lot of push back.

At the end of the day it seems that anything Ninjutsu can do, all of his other variations can do the same or make up for not having b2 and f2 with their damage or pressure. I hope they do something with Ninjutsu. I would say make f2 an overhead, but i'm little scared that it would make him too strong.

We need to test to see if characters can run and punish out of block vs f2. If a majority of characters can, then it most definitely should be an overhead.
 
Don't know if this has been posted but his sweep in Ninjitsu is very unique.

From max distance the sword hits and does 3% damage, but does 7% when the foot hits up close.

The best part about this is that it will blow up armor even though it technically hits once.
 
Don't know if this has been posted but his sweep in Ninjitsu is very unique.

From max distance the sword hits and does 3% damage, but does 7% when the foot hits up close.

The best part about this is that it will blow up armor even though it technically hits once.
I think that's because it's two attacks. One is the sweep and the other is the sword. When the leg hits, the sword doesn't because the leg knocks them down, but if it doesn't like when it hits armor or is blocked, then the sword connects. So I guess the leg does 7 and the sword does 3.


KL's ex Spin can't punish it from max distance
I meant more for normals, but that it good information to know. How fast is ex spin? For example, since distance is the main reason the move can't be punished, a tight framed run cancel maybe able to close the distance, allowing them to land a normal with the remaining frames. I believe f2 is -11, so that makes it hard to punish even if the move had less push back, so this would only really apply to fast and long ranged moves.
 
I think that's because it's two attacks. One is the sweep and the other is the sword. When the leg hits, the sword doesn't because the leg knocks them down, but if it doesn't like when it hits armor or is blocked, then the sword connects. So I guess the leg does 7 and the sword does 3.




I meant more for normals, but that it good information to know. How fast is ex spin? For example, since distance is the main reason the move can't be punished, a tight framed run cancel maybe able to close the distance, allowing them to land a normal with the remaining frames. I believe f2 is -11, so that makes it hard to punish even if the move had less push back, so this would only really apply to fast and long ranged moves.
EX Spin is 7f. It can only punish F2 when you do it close.

A meaty sweep in Ninjitsu can blow up KL's EX spin, which is probably one of the better armored moves.
 
EX Spin is 7f. It can only punish F2 when you do it close.

A meaty sweep in Ninjitsu can blow up KL's EX spin, which is probably one of the better armored moves.
F2's second hit comes out 10 frames after the first and B4's comes out 6 frames after the first hit. [Just good info to know when attempting to blow up wakes ups] With this information I believe it's impossible for us to blow up wakes up 5 frames or less. Possible trade with 6 frames. 10+ frame wakes up are free.
The sword has more range than the leg hit, so is there a range where we can safely land both hits of b4 with out lao landing a reversal punish or do we have to risk it?
 
F2's second hit comes out 10 frames after the first and B4's comes out 6 frames after the first hit. [Just good info to know when attempting to blow up wakes ups] With this information I believe it's impossible for us to blow up wakes up 5 frames or less. Possible trade with 6 frames. 10+ frame wakes up are free.
The sword has more range than the leg hit, so is there a range where we can safely land both hits of b4 with out lao landing a reversal punish or do we have to risk it?
You have to take a risk.

The risk is getting blown up by a full combo, while the reward is a hard knockdown.

Meaty F2 is still better because their isn't much risk. Not to mention it's safe.
 
EX Spin is 7f. It can only punish F2 when you do it close.

A meaty sweep in Ninjitsu can blow up KL's EX spin, which is probably one of the better armored moves.
What about using os to counter wake ups? Do any of scorpion's variants have any viable set ups? Like d3 takeout on armor and just regular d3 on block. It wouldn't be that useful for ninjutsu, but inferno could convert a wake up os into a combo... Then damn. This. Game. Has. So. Much. Depth.
 
What about using os to counter wake ups? Do any of scorpion's variants have any viable set ups? Like d3 takeout on armor and just regular d3 on block. It wouldn't be that useful for ninjutsu, but inferno could convert a wake up os into a combo... Then damn. This. Game. Has. So. Much. Depth.
I couldn't tell you. I haven't started experimenting with OS yet lol
 
I moan about ninjutsu, but there's really something about the counterplay of it at mid range that catches people.

B2 opens up a weakness he has too l, with opponents being in the top opposing quarter of the screen, Ala k.jin, ermac, etc...

Interesting stuff, but how do you compete with e.black and sonya rush down I really don't know aside from Tele cancel shenanigans.
 
I moan about ninjutsu, but there's really something about the counterplay of it at mid range that catches people.

B2 opens up a weakness he has too l, with opponents being in the top opposing quarter of the screen, Ala k.jin, ermac, etc...

Interesting stuff, but how do you compete with e.black and sonya rush down I really don't know aside from Tele cancel shenanigans.

The only downfall about Ninjitsu is the overall damage output and scaling on certain moves IMO.

His Oki game in Ninjitsu is much better than his other variations.

Scorpion was also weak in the area of dealing with pressure/rushdown in MK9. The evasive teleport helps but you still have to rely on fundamentals.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Ninjitsu Scorpion is a beast. B2 punishes all types of shit from half a screen away (inferno scorpion low demon is one), you get throw setups for days because of f2 threat and f2 and b4 blow up armor. All that together with his footsie game makes him really strong. You just really need to get some momentum going, play solid footsies and make good reads.

As far as getting out of pressure he has a super fast d1 that leaves him at advantage on hit and gives enough time to follow up with pressure. He has armored take down which is unsafe but works well and is extremely fast. His d4 is also very low profile so it goes under a ton of shit. Not to mention his air to air game is insane in all variations.