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Predict the overnerfs/buffs

Jimmypotato

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Eldriken said:
I wouldn't mind them using the projectile reflect at all. I could run in and get a full combo if they extend it too long.

But I know that wouldn't work every single time once they were conditioned to expect it, however.
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well obviously you have to play the matches, it's an option to deal with the spammers, he just said it was "horrible" and I don't think it is. I haven't played a great Jackie yet so I really don't know, Just looking at options. Why is it horrible? maybe we should talk in the kitana forum lol
 
Awsumpossm

Awsumpossm

Noob
Jimmypotato said:
well obviously you have to play the matches, it's an option to deal with the spammers, he just said it was "horrible" and I don't think it is. I haven't played a great Jackie yet so I really don't know, Just looking at options. Why is it horrible? maybe we should talk in the kitana forum lol
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Trust me, it's not great. I've played it against many efficient players.

For one, you can duck the machine gun bullets if you don't block, but once conditioned to do so Jacqui can MB it for a fast mid rocket.

Two, the projectile reflect is hardly effective because it stops Jacqui quickly and thus grants hardly any damage. Also you have to time it accurately, as the start-up is simply too long for Jacqui's quick projectile. Jacqui can also easily read this and quickly sprint for a full combo, making the negligible damage from your projectile reflect hardly worth the risk.

Due to the lengthy nature of the machine gun, it's difficult to jump over without using air float or ass attack or air fan- not safe. Don't forget that Jacqui also has anti air rockets, and that Kitana cannot teleport. Further, armored TS and her other armored moves are useless against the multi-hitting properties of the machine gun, hindering her mid screen game as well.

It becomes a game where you're stuck at full screen and constantly at disadvantage. The only way to progress safely is to carefully maneuver forward. It's a bad matchup. Kitana's lack of a mixup game when finally grounded near Jacqui after lots of careful reads doesn't help the matchup either.

I was actually planning on making a thread asking for tips in the Kitana forum.
 
FinalBoss_FGC

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
Lol

All these Kung Jin nerf calls but people forget about some of these characters hard-to-read overhead/low mixups. At least Kung Jin's overhead has a damn start-up of 19 frames and his low has a start-up of 13 while Erron Black is standing over there with some of the best zoning in the game and still has "slightly" better framed start-up than his overhead...even tho I don't believe it is 14 frame start-up...not to mention Sonya's over there with 12 frame overhead that literally hits mid-body into a fast low. Not to mention Grandmaster SZ has a fucking wall that stops projectiles and prevents rush down?

Kung Jin's damage for his overhead or low can be scaled differently, yes.
Kung Jin's overhead and low strings can be a little less safe

But if we are nerfing that, can we nerf Kitana's fan speed and damage but give her normals better damage scaling?
Can we nerf Liu Kang so not all of his normals (exaggerating, chill) are safe on block?
Can we nerf GMSZ's Ice Clone so it doesn't tank a projectile?
Can we nerf Jacqui's machine gun so it doesn't chip half your life away and be able to do an up missile for free?

All characters have broken shit...even tho I main Kung Jin, I don't want him to feel the Scorpion effect. Nerf one or two things slightly, see how the game is played differently and go from there. Don't just nerf him to the ground and be done with it.
 
Jimmypotato

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Awsumpossm said:
Trust me, it's not great. I've played it against many efficient players.

For one, you can duck the machine gun bullets if you don't block, but once conditioned to do so Jacqui can MB it for a fast mid rocket.

Two, the projectile reflect is hardly effective because it stops Jacqui quickly and thus grants hardly any damage. Also you have to time it accurately, as the start-up is simply too long for Jacqui's quick projectile. Jacqui can also easily read this and quickly sprint for a full combo, making the negligible damage from your projectile reflect hardly worth the risk.

Due to the lengthy nature of the machine gun, it's difficult to jump over without using air float or ass attack or air fan- not safe. Don't forget that Jacqui also has anti air rockets, and that Kitana cannot teleport. Further, armored TS and her other armored moves are useless against the multi-hitting properties of the machine gun, hindering her mid screen game as well.

It becomes a game where you're stuck at full screen and constantly at disadvantage. The only way to progress safely is to carefully maneuver forward. It's a bad matchup. Kitana's lack of a mixup game when finally grounded near Jacqui after lots of careful reads doesn't help the matchup either.

I was actually planning on making a thread asking for tips in the Kitana forum.
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makes sense, I'm gonna try find a good jaqui and play it this weekend. Only ones I've played online spammed the gun, so it was easy to beat them, once I got half screen they would either blow all the meter on it, or they would try one of the other specials she has, and I would block and full punish.

I was just testing in practice, if you duck the gun, roll forward on your pad or stick and hit 1 to get the fan to come out the fastest possible, even if they MB for the rocket you will get a trade and its even. if they don't MB they will be forced to block the fan, if they go for another gun they will get hit by the fan. thats just testing for a minute at full screen. Probably be pretty tough to do online,
 
chemist4hire

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
Eldriken said:
Do you think chip reduction and reduced meter gain on Bug Blast would be overkill? It's like MB Trident Rush 2.0. >_>
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Why, with the option selects in this game, the move can be punished with lows that shrink your hitbox. Furthermore, the move is unsafe to begin with. Not only is the bug spray punishable in both the ex and non ex version (it's about -17), f22xxbugspray can be interrupted by an armor move. Venomous has already become her worst variation due to this.
 
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james1926

james1926

Noob
What's the point to nerf Jacqui? The noobs that demand her nerfed will not be able to deal with her even if her machinegun is nerfed. And lbsh Jacqui shouldn't even be a discussion for nerfs.

On the other hand inferno Scorpion and grandmaster Sub-zero seem very strong.
 
Drecker

Drecker

GET CITY.
Calling it now, Summoner Quan is going to get shit on.

Edit: I don't really want to see any buffs or nerfs for at least another month or two (especially on my secondary), but mark my words about the above.
 
Breakin Wordzz

Breakin Wordzz

Best Rengar NA, also ares of world
kabal needs buffs. o wait mkx? um kung jin isnt op or broken. i havent seen anyone that needs a bad nerf yet some tweaks maybe but i have a feeling some characters are going to get buffed that are shit.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
CoRzz Jin said:
Lol

All these Kung Jin nerf calls but people forget about some of these characters hard-to-read overhead/low mixups. At least Kung Jin's overhead has a damn start-up of 19 frames and his low has a start-up of 13 while Erron Black is standing over there with some of the best zoning in the game and still has "slightly" better framed start-up than his overhead...even tho I don't believe it is 14 frame start-up...not to mention Sonya's over there with 12 frame overhead that literally hits mid-body into a fast low. Not to mention Grandmaster SZ has a fucking wall that stops projectiles and prevents rush down?

Kung Jin's damage for his overhead or low can be scaled differently, yes.
Kung Jin's overhead and low strings can be a little less safe

But if we are nerfing that, can we nerf Kitana's fan speed and damage but give her normals better damage scaling?
Can we nerf Liu Kang so not all of his normals (exaggerating, chill) are safe on block?
Can we nerf GMSZ's Ice Clone so it doesn't tank a projectile?
Can we nerf Jacqui's machine gun so it doesn't chip half your life away and be able to do an up missile for free?

All characters have broken shit...even tho I main Kung Jin, I don't want him to feel the Scorpion effect. Nerf one or two things slightly, see how the game is played differently and go from there. Don't just nerf him to the ground and be done with it.
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a 19f overhead is unreactable. Doesnt matter if someone has a 13 or 19 frame overhead, you aren't going to be able to react to either of them. Just saying.
 
DevilMaySpy

DevilMaySpy

Mama's Little Bumgorf
I partially feel that Shinnok will get the overbuffed Bane treatment. He's not that good compared to everyone else who has 50/50's and shenanigans, but he's not complete trash either.
 
dookieagain

dookieagain

Last Bastion of Arcades
Zoidberg747 said:
a 19f overhead is unreactable. Doesnt matter if someone has a 13 or 19 frame overhead, you aren't going to be able to react to either of them. Just saying.
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This is true, however if you do a preemptive counter poke with say a standing 2 (7 frame) against a +5 the 13 frame will trade (Can moves finally trade in this MK?) and the 19 will be beaten. So I guess I see how it's marginally better.

Marginally.

But it's okay Kung Jinners. You'll get damage nerfs but still be top 3. It's the Kung clan way.
 
xenogorgeous

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
too soon to predict any jack shit .... for now, gonna be a "scrub cry out" wave for nerfs, but, let's see until after Evo what happens ....
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Zoidberg747 said:
a 19f overhead is unreactable. Doesnt matter if someone has a 13 or 19 frame overhead, you aren't going to be able to react to either of them. Just saying.
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I agree with this.

People think in inputting F24 in practice mode with KUNG Jin makes it reactable, when in a real paced matched with mixups, pokes, setups and range you aren't reacting to this. "Reacting" means I'm thinking you're going to poke low or jump in, but then I see the overhead and block it on reaction.

Jin's 50/50 can be blocked on read, what you think he will do, not "block low and react when you see the overhead".
 
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