VSM KT Smith's Living Injustice Tier Chart

[Zyphox]

Just so everyone is aware, (scorpion aside) IMO there are 5 kings of this game and only 2 characters are close to them.

Superman, Batman, Black Adam, Aquaman, Green Lantern.

Batgirl and Nightwing are close.

Wonder Woman is the only character I can see significantly changing position through tech and not patch adjustments.

Will update again when the next patch comes out.

you have hawkgirl better than Green arrow? and even i don't downplay the flash this much.

 

[16 Bit]

another thing is the vortex combo nerf. now instead of doing 40% off of a slide, it's 30% which is a big deal. Not to mention the loss of all the OTG shenanigans.
Maybe I'm spoiled by GL space control, but the more I played this MU the easier it became to just completely avoid being hit at all. It becomes a problem when you only have 1 move for the majority of the screen.
And look at her placement, even with all the problems I think she has she's still just BARELY outside of top tier.

She can do 42% one bar that ends in really good oki if she chooses not to do a straight up 50/50 vortex or wants to end the round. Even "only" doing 30% I kill opponents with one slide or f+3 into a couple bad guesses all the time.

It would be a problem if the one move wasn't covering almost all the bases and wasn't the ultimate conditioning tool.

FWIW I think Killer Frost likely beats Green Lantern.

 

[ApertureBlack]

Ive always called Batman, Superman, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and Nightwing the Serious 7.

 

[16 Bit]

Just so everyone is aware, (scorpion aside) IMO there are 5 kings of this game and only 2 characters are close to them.

Superman, Batman, Black Adam, Aquaman, Green Lantern.

IMO Killer Frost beats or goes even with all those characters, with the possible exception of Black Adam.

 

[Zyphox]

Ive always called Batman, Superman, Aquaman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and Nightwing the Serious 7.

thats only 6....

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

IMO Killer Frost beats or goes even with all those characters, with the possible exception of Black Adam.

Curious as to why Black Adam is the exception. I'm not gonna argue... just like reading actual real tech thoughts.

 

[RiBBz22]

another thing is the vortex combo nerf. now instead of doing 40% off of a slide, it's 30% which is a big deal. Not to mention the loss of all the OTG shenanigans.
Maybe I'm spoiled by GL space control, but the more I played this MU the easier it became to just completely avoid being hit at all. It becomes a problem when you only have 1 move for the majority of the screen.
And look at her placement, even with all the problems I think she has she's still just BARELY outside of top tier.

The vortex nerf only affected the dagger reset which no one has really used since the 1st tier chart. There are better options which lead to roughly the same damage per 50-50 conversion. OTG fix pretty much hurt everyone lol.

You are honestly trying way to hard to look past the power of her mixup.

When you mention the kings of the game in your post above, I personally believe that KF beats or goes even with every one of them aside from Black Adam. I also play as Batgirl and KF doesn't seem terrible to play against but that is probably because I have mained her since day -3 so I am really good in the MU.

 

[16 Bit]

Curious as to why Black Adam is the exception. I'm not gonna argue... just like reading actual real tech thoughts.

A lack of air control is KF's biggest weakness, so Black Adam is free to play his game on her. Parry and resets could make it even though.

 

[Shamwow0w0w]

Care to explain why Raven is so low?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The vortex nerf only affected the dagger reset which no one has really used since the 1st tier chart. There are better options which lead to roughly the same damage per 50-50 conversion. OTG fix pretty much hurt everyone lol.

You are honestly trying way to hard to look past the power of her mixup.

When you mention the kings of the game in your post above, I personally believe that KF beats or goes even with every one of them aside from Black Adam. I also play as Batgirl and KF doesn't seem terrible to play against but that is probably because I have mained her since day -3 so I am really good in the MU.

The real question....
Why is she so bad against Grundy?

 

[RiBBz22]

Curious as to why Black Adam is the exception. I'm not gonna argue... just like reading actual real tech thoughts.

Getting in on Black Adam is not easy against one's that know how to play. Lightning will stuff slide attempts and hit you out of the air if done correctly. Throwing daggers is full combo punishable by ex dive kick on reaction. Once you get in his pressure is safe or + on block so you have to respect it or dash out of it. As soon as you get near him or dash out he can dive kick to the other side of the screen with no real threat due to her lack of air control outside of jumping.

KF still has a lot of dirt so it isn't like the MU is impossible, it is just a bad MU probably 6-4 Adam.

 

[RiBBz22]

The real question....
Why is she so bad against Grundy?

I don't think it is bad tbh. Probably 5-5 or 6-4 Frost. MB f3 blows up WC since it is a throw and that is his real threat within slide range to blow it up. I will trade 4 WC's for 1 F3.

 

[ApertureBlack]

thats only 6....

Lol I forgot Doomsday, but I suppose everyone has.

 

[G4S KT]

When you mention the kings of the game in your post above, I personally believe that KF beats or goes even with every one of them aside from Black Adam. I also play as Batgirl and KF doesn't seem terrible to play against but that is probably because I have mained her since day -3 so I am really good in the MU.

you guys are over-estimating the strength and staying power of slide. once everyone learns how to effectively deal with it she has nothing to fall back on.

Kinda like Smoke Bomb. Sure it's GDLK and super dangerous until everyone you play can tip-toe around it and then it becomes a very real risk to use it. And then Han does the smokebomb shuffle on you and you give up just so you can get to the bar faster.

Yes the vortex is really good and very very hard to block on reaction but it CAN be done, you don't have to guess. Beyond that, hanging your match up numbers on how many times you're hoping someone to guess wrong on a 50/50 is just not very solid police work.

( GGA 16 Bit )

 

[Zyphox]

Lol I forgot Doomsday, but I suppose everyone has.

it should be black adam........

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I don't think it is bad tbh. Probably 5-5 or 6-4 Frost. MB f3 blows up WC since it is a throw and that is his real threat within slide range to blow it up. I will trade 4 WC's for 1 F3.

she's one character that his WC wakeup trap works on..... and no... you wouldn't trade 4 WC MB for 1 f3..... cuz you're dead.
IDK...... i think he wrecks her pretttttttttty hard. Konqrr

 

[RiBBz22]

you guys are over-estimating the strength and staying power of slide. once everyone learns how to effectively deal with it she has nothing to fall back on.

Kinda like Smoke Bomb. Sure it's GDLK and super dangerous until everyone you play can tip-toe around it and then it becomes a very real risk to use it. And then Han does the smokebomb shuffle on you and you give up just so you can get to the bar faster.

Yes the vortex is really good and very very hard to block on reaction but it CAN be done, you don't have to guess. Beyond that, hanging your match up numbers on how many times you're hoping someone to guess wrong on a 50/50 is just not very solid police work.

( GGA 16 Bit )

So you can block

b1 slide

or

slide

or

f3

on reaction.

NO

 

[ApertureBlack]

it should be black adam........

Actually Ya, Im just derping.

Black Adam, Superman, Aquaman, Wonderwoman, Green Lantern, Batman, Nightwing = Serious 7

Mah bad

 

[RiBBz22]

she's one character that his WC wakeup trap works on..... and no... you wouldn't trade 4 WC MB for 1 f3..... cuz you're dead.
IDK...... i think he wrecks her pretttttttttty hard. Konqrr

You are right, I wouldn't trade them for MB but that is not at all what I said.

 

[16 Bit]

you guys are over-estimating the strength and staying power of slide. once everyone learns how to effectively deal with it she has nothing to fall back on.

Kinda like Smoke Bomb. Sure it's GDLK and super dangerous until everyone you play can tip-toe around it and then it becomes a very real risk to use it. And then Han does the smokebomb shuffle on you and you give up just so you can get to the bar faster.

Yes the vortex is really good and very very hard to block on reaction but it CAN be done, you don't have to guess. Beyond that, hanging your match up numbers on how many times you're hoping someone to guess wrong on a 50/50 is just not very solid police work.

Or you're underestimating how good slide is. It's been months and our best players have yet to find an effective way of dealing with slide. For every way to blow it up she has a way to blow them up for trying. Into resets. And they're usually giving up playing their game to try to deal with it. What do you suggest?

I've yet to play anyone that can block her 50/50 on reaction.

This last point makes no sense to me. All MU are guesses and reads. Putting the opponent into a situation where it comes down to a 50/50 where she takes no risk and they are comboed into another guessing game sounds tremendous.

 

[G4S KT]

So you can block

b1 slide

or

slide

or

f3

on reaction.

NO

I didn't say it was easy, it basically requires 100% mental resources.

Claude VonStroke

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

You are right, I wouldn't trade them for MB but that is not at all what I said.

Considering all the nonsense in the game..... I think the MU is kinda fair and fun

anyway..... i'll back out and just ask questions again. I think Grundy is probably a tad high..... his tools are great.... but the game doesnt' really cater to how he functions.

 

[G4S KT]

Or you're underestimating how good slide is. It's been months and our best players have yet to find an effective way of dealing with slide. For every way to blow it up she has a way to blow them up for trying. Into resets. And they're usually giving up playing their game to try to deal with it. What do you suggest?

pick up GL I guess? slide is easily contained with well placed air rockets and can be lifted on reaction from too far out if you're scouting it (which you will be since she has no other option besides dashing/air dashing)

If I do get caught I'll attempt to guard on reaction and push block anything that's not a f3 or b1/slide.

the most effective way Claude VonStroke was fighting me was turtling back

 

[16 Bit]

pick up GL I guess? slide is easily contained with well placed air rockets and can be lifted on reaction from too far out if you're scouting it (which you will be since she has no other option besides dashing/air dashing)

If I do get caught I'll attempt to guard on reaction and push block anything that's not a f3 or b1/slide.

the most effective way Claude VonStroke was fighting me was turtling back

Ok man. Lift on reaction is even harder than other theories I've heard like mb b+3 on reaction.

There's nothing to push block. She will just do the 50/50.

I guess with your godlike reactions it makes sense for her to be mid tier.

 

[NY_Jailhouse]

Maybe you just have Claude's number right now in the matchup. Have you played other high level kf's?